[released] Doomworld Mega Project 2018 (beat your own map)

Thumbs up for the new rules. But not even a custom sky transfer for boom this time?

I'm in a game.

We'll have to put the most out of the standard resources. This will be a good test.

I think rule number 1 about recording a demo is should be just optional, as long as the mapper play tests his or her map to make sure it all plays well because remember we have a whole year to perfect our map. Also I'm not a great player in demo recording during challenging maps (like Richard Wiles-like difficulty) because I like to load and save my game. Everything else is fine. But if I was going to include a demo with my map, expect it to be easy like Twilight Zone 1.

The project needs to be plain and simple and I like the idea about using standard textures, good choice for sure.

Should the demo be a zero-secret or full-secret run?

Exception G\ZDoom, this is a risky step, which can alienate authors from the project. As i understand, in this project not planned hub-map?
Perhaps before release our maps we will have to contact each other for help with testing...

I really like the direction for this year, count me in. The only thing I would change is the inability to add fixes to your map after the fact. I'm sure it would be way easier for ToD to compile if there was only one version of every map rather than a million, but it would be kind of a shame for missed bugs/oopsies/etc to remain in the wad for this reason.

I'm all for mappers having to provide a demo, but I feel like it maybe shouldn't be so stringent - For players who like to save/load if they die halfway through or need to take a piss break or something, it seems like a YouTube recording should be enough. This is only a very minor point though, I like the idea of the mappers having to 'prove' they can beat their own maps before foisting them onto the world, I just think "one sitting, no saves" OS style demos might be a bit too strict for many players.

Regardless, I'm totally in. Most excited I've been for a DWMP since 2014.

EDIT: I'm a fan of the proposed compatibility as the ZDaemon/Odamex players will actually get to enjoy the full product and only minor edits (adding co-op starts) will be necessary to host them on servers. Heck, some of the maps we've seen in previous DWMPs can't even run in Zandronum. It'll be nice to have the project run neatly in most any source port.

Ah, no GZDoom? Guess I'll sit this year out.

Then Jaxxoon R comes into the thread and opts out due to the compatibility, thus making me rethink my entire post :'(

I'll do a map.

I'm cool with the maps requiring a demo, but requiring the mapper to demo his/her own map might be a bit stringent. Some mappers aren't the best players (of course, I'm not talking about myself at all -- why would you even think it?). I'd suggest that if a mapper gets anyone to do a legitimate, non-TAS demo, that should be good enough.

Also, not allowing post-submission changes seems kinda strict. I understand why the rule is there, but surely there's a better way to prevent 10347 beta versions because of a couple of mappers...

Cries in STARTAN2

For the real, at least custom skies should be allowed to express creativity or generate custom palette to make things less bland, because, personally I slightly dislike traditional Doom textures. It's not like we already see tons of mapsets which use only default textures. 

I will do a map !

I'm actually happy with the first rule, and the third one, since one of my personal principles in level designing is that the author should be able to beat his own level on UV-Max without saves and cheats. In fact, I wish more and more community projects accept this rule in the future. To me, making a level that you can't finish by your own feels like passing the buck to other people; After all, It's YOUR level, not by others.

I'm concerning about restricting G/ZDoom from the submission, though. The goal of Doomworld Mega Project is to gather levels from as many level designers as possible, and restricting G/ZDoom will definitely cut the amount of potential participants. If you're worrying about the compatibility, try to separate the wad, based on the level's compatibility, like the DMP2015 did. And like I said earlier, allowing the custom sky for boom would be a good idea.

I'm totally game for this since it'll last til the end of the year ;)

Soooo....is demo compatibility the reason you don't wanna use ZDoom? Because considering it was officially finished last year you can record demos for it now...

Those are usually mixed bag of quality, arent they?

Count me in!

I like the idea of a demo being required, actually. It proves the map is beatable for slaughter-type submissions and also proves that there is indeed enough resources to beat the wad. I'd personally enforce more rules regarding demos: Get the max kills possible without visiting a secret area. :)

Wait wait wait, No ZDoom maps this time? O_O

Uh, fifth time's the charm?

I'm in, I really like the demo rule and is actually something I do on my own every now and then. Don't really have a problem with the other rules, though custom skies would be very much appreciated.

51 minutes ago, antares031 said:

... one of my personal principles in level designing is that the author should be able to beat his own level on UV-Max without saves and cheats. In fact, I wish more and more community projects accept this rule in the future. To me, making a level that you can't finish by your own feels like passing the buck to other people; After all, It's YOUR level, not by others.

As you said, believing an author should be able to beat their map on UV is a personal principle, for you. There are many who'd agree with you, but I'm not one of them. I happen to enjoy dying in difficult fights, and I typically play as a savescummer. This is especially helpful in the bigger maps I design, since I don't want to start at the beginning again if I die 35 minutes into a 45-minute map.

There are mappers who always play on HMP and, in some cases, never play their own maps on UV, but instead let other players test that difficulty setting. IIRC, death-destiny was one such mapper. Should they be forced into proving they can beat their maps on UV owing to some arbitrary belief by other mappers?

In the case of DMP 2018, ToD set the demo rule and I'm happy to abide by it, because this is a big job and it's great that he does it. His house, his rules. Probably he wants to avoid people tossing in totally BS maps that are no fun to play for anyone. I'm just sticking up for those of us who do things in a different way and who have different beliefs and different joys in playing this game. Anyone can approach this hobby any way they want, but I guarantee that if I participate this year, my map will be more fun if, as @42PercentHealth suggested, it can have a demo by one of the excellent players/mappers who have graciously played my maps over the last few years, instead of by my incompetent self. It would be hard and nasty, but it wouldn't be BS. Otherwise, it will be a little easier than usual but maybe still kind of alright for an early slot.

thoughts: 

suggestions:

P.S. Here's a sort of prboom+ starter pack that I think could also really help with the process of setting up prboom+ and recording/playing demos. I made it just now: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5frws4ekcdg3g1/prboom-plus-2.5.1.5-starterpack.zip?dl=1

Essentially, it's a copy of pr/glboom+ 2.5.1.5 that I set up myself to be essentially vanilla except for being on -complevel 9 by default I believe.

I added a test wad as well as instructions and 3 .bat files to get players started.

The instructions have notes on the configuration and the .bat files.

It even has a corrected automap!!!

thoughts? :o

Maybe with some work, I could fix it up and you could even put it in the OP? :D

good ruleset, I'll try and make something for sure! expect a confusing crap map with berserk fighting and fake exits everywhere

4 hours ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

--- NO new textures, flats...

And so I won't be able to use the map I have in progress from 2017, since its main unique concept essentially relies on custom textures and flats.

What if your port does not support demos at all? Hahaha got ya there ayy lmao

Edit: no i didn't, in fact i pretty much got myself there 

36 minutes ago, Steve D said:

Should they be forced into proving they can beat their maps on UV owing to some arbitrary belief by other mappers?

I don't see anything about the demo having to be on UV. :P Just do a quick run of the easiest difficulty. If it has to be on UV, flip the settings upside down and have UV be HNTR and vice versa.

20 minutes ago, Spectre01 said:

I don't see anything about the demo having to be on UV. :P Just do a quick run of the easiest difficulty. If it has to be on UV, flip the settings upside down and have UV be HNTR and vice versa.

- Skill 4 is in the example script. ;) 

This is ToD, after all. ToD plays for keeps.

As you said, you can game the system and make a UV that's hardly any different from HMP, so you get the easy demo, and then go full-on crazeballs in HNTR and include a comment such as, "If you want blood, the real UV is on HNTR." You'd probably upset only 1 or 2 people since hardly anyone plays that setting. ;)

But would ToD allow it?

Would like to make 3 years in a row of contributions. I'm in! I dig the new rules too.

I actually quite like the imposition of order on the usual chaos here. Particularly the stipulation that the mapper has to be able to beat their own map, as I feel like a fair few community projects have submissions that are unnecessarily difficult, which rather detracts from the fun, in my opinion.

I'm also content with the IWAD resources being in use and I'm even happy that a single compatability is being targeted. The one map per mapper and all submissions are final rules, to me, should enforce that people put solid work into it and produce to the best of their abilities. 

Good job, ToD, I'm feeling inclined to contribute to this one.

Count me in, I'm also making a map (Boom-format)

Thoughts about rules...
What are you still complaining about, people? Each year the rules can change. I'm generally glad that DWMP2018 has finally started!
One attempt of WAD uploading is because you includes the demo file and show other people that your map is playable.
The only one attempt to WAD uploading will exclude those who do not test their maps properly and hope that others will do it. As well as lazy people who do not add additional levels of skill.
As well as the demo playtroughs - do such maps in which you yourself are able to play and finish! At least this year.
Unlike Doom1, Doom2 has a wide choice of stock textures with which you can create eg a library, sewer, city, mansion, etc..