Heretic demos (non-demopack and NM)

14 hours ago, PVS said:

Sorry Redneckerz, but last weekend almost killed me, heh
se2,3,4 - so I numbered my versions, but I drop doing this for a long time, it’s not necessary for me alone, the last few years is always 'special edition 4'.

No problem PVS, i hope the weekend was pleasant :)

I still love to know what the differences between each version is - Or are they more like revisions, with SE4 being the most refined?

14 hours ago, PVS said:

I'm not sure if anyone needs this, but I’ll leave this version here. jHeretic093(se4) for vanilla demo playback/recording - old look, oldschool, for old vintage PC and old Windows 95-XP. A lot of "old" but I warned you.

My heartfelt appreciation for this. I had a look - And you offered several prebuild .CFG's aswell, which is great for testing. I am aware that the Heretic speedrunning community is a lot smaller than the Doom one and relies here on Choco Heretic, HereticP (Heretic Plus with raised limits) and vvHeretic's hack, but another tool in the toolbox is definitely appreciated, and since this one has a lot of pre-made settings, jheretic093 SE4 is definitely useful for anyone that wants to try out Heretic speedrunning.

For that reason alone, i will tag @Opulent here, perhaps he can host this archive on his page (or the DESDA page) as its definitely worth keeping such an all-in-one package.

14 hours ago, PVS said:

If anyone will try to run it - I wrote a small txt-file in the Doc folder, read it first and sorry for my bad English.

 

I noticed you wrote it yesterday - Thank you. No biggie that there is no list of changes - I can tell you modified the Doomsday engine for this and its all very well documented.

14 hours ago, PVS said:

Some screenshots from playback cooperative demo, only 20 fps, I know, but for my PIII 550MHz and TNT2 in 1280x720 - it's not bad at all :)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

jHeretic093(se4).7z

I am impressed by the looks and performance in 720p even. Goes to show that older renderers go a long way running on older hardware :)

I left my latest version here, and yes the se'number' is a revision, if it is more clear. I don’t even know where you could see mention about jHeretic093(se2), it was a very long time ago and I don’t remember that I published demos recorded on it, checked now, even se3 it was mid 2013. In any case, my old versions are not fully compatible with original Heretic 1.3, it is simply "forbidden" to publish if we are talking about demo synchronization.

About Heretic speedrunning, I don’t even think that this is a community, it’s rather a small group of people, who for many years were forced to record demos only on vanilla exe with all original Heretic limits for demos, later on DOS modifications removing these limits. The first normal vanilla compatible port with no limits for demos appeared recently, in December 2016 - it is Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0. Heretic demorecoding has his own history in my opinion, and I remember all these guys.

15 hours ago, PVS said:

I left my latest version here, and yes the se'number' is a revision, if it is more clear. I don’t even know where you could see mention about jHeretic093(se2), it was a very long time ago and I don’t remember that I published demos recorded on it, checked now, even se3 it was mid 2013. In any case, my old versions are not fully compatible with original Heretic 1.3, it is simply "forbidden" to publish if we are talking about demo synchronization.

So i take it the se versions are basically refined versions and se4 is the latest revision, correct?

15 hours ago, PVS said:

About Heretic speedrunning, I don’t even think that this is a community, it’s rather a small group of people, who for many years were forced to record demos only on vanilla exe with all original Heretic limits for demos, later on DOS modifications removing these limits.

I take it these are things like vvheretic, right? Or are there more modifications that somehow aren't on Opulent's page?

15 hours ago, PVS said:

The first normal vanilla compatible port with no limits for demos appeared recently, in December 2016 - it is Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0. Heretic demorecoding has his own history in my opinion, and I remember all these guys.

I would love to hear more from it :)

Thanks again, by the way, for being so informative. It is meaningful in more ways than one.

On 6 марта 2020 г. at 5:45 PM, Redneckerz said:

So i take it the se versions are basically refined versions and se4 is the latest revision, correct?

Yes.

About DOS exe's - main is vvHeretic by vv, but from 2005 to 2008 there were 4 versions of it, with very interesting programming when it patches/hacks the target exe on the fly. I personally can’t find the 3rd version (or vvHeretic3), which was somewhere in 2006-2007, if anyone has it, please share. And of course, Heretic-Plus 1.32.1 by Andrey Budko for tech maps limit-removing, here you said more precisely above - Heretic-Plus raised limits, not removing.

There are also a number of old versions for DOS and also new versions, I expect that exist something called CHeretic for DOS (ask JCD about this). From the link below you can find something named Heretic 1.3a/Hexen 1.1a made in 2013, modifications without removing the original limits for demos, but with enhanced support for network games, etc.

http://maraakate.org/Kali/downloads.html

About Heretic demorecoding history - it’s hard for me to explain in English, rather it’s a philosophical question, even from the third attempt I can’t explain correctly about the simple numbering of my versions, you don’t understand me, and this question it will be even more difficult. You can look around yourself, if you are interested, even on this forum you can find a number of old topics, where people thought it was impossible record demo on skill5 + respawn vs D'Sparil but a little later option was found, how they came together to record MAX'es, etc, etc. Such small moments make the whole Heretic demorecoding history, in my opinion.

On the second page of this thread I found a number of my old videos, I almost forgot about them, and see now that old jHeretic093(se2) I used when recording this video for h5s8-336.lmp by JCD, hud counters and timers not yet implemented:

http://youtu.be/8MbQ7bNNTv4

At the end of this video for h1f3-241.lmp by stx-Vile, in credits you can see a list names of all Heretic speedrunners in vanilla demo format for 2013, I just forgot Opulent there, he has one demo for Heretic-N:
http://youtu.be/7L8jpxaKisc

From that time, as far as I know - only three new names: veovisRC (great movies), Xindage (interesting and crazy wing-trick), Batawi (nomo for Ep1, some with best time). In the last few years, appeared another Heretic guy, most likely he does not consider himself as such, but I hope, when he buy new hardware on which Chocolate/Crispy Heretic will work well he will also record some vanilla demos, anyway, my big thanks to kraflab that sometimes he wake-up Heretic/Hexen demorecording theme.
 

12 hours ago, PVS said:

Yes.

Good :)

12 hours ago, PVS said:

About DOS exe's - main is vvHeretic by vv, but from 2005 to 2008 there were 4 versions of it, with very interesting programming when it patches/hacks the target exe on the fly. I personally can’t find the 3rd version (or vvHeretic3), which was somewhere in 2006-2007, if anyone has it, please share. And of course, Heretic-Plus 1.32.1 by Andrey Budko for tech maps limit-removing, here you said more precisely above - Heretic-Plus raised limits, not removing.

I have only come across vvheretic4, so i do not where vvheretic1 or 2 are found - They aren't on the common demo recording sites

I do know that vv also did a Doom related hack, but that's not relevant here :)

12 hours ago, PVS said:

There are also a number of old versions for DOS and also new versions, I expect that exist something called CHeretic for DOS (ask JCD about this).

This is called Smart Heretic/SHeretic. @kraflab had a link in this post, but it is unavailable.  And according to @JCD Smart Heretic was a test.

There was also CHexen, which is what i believe you had the confusing from.

But i am tagging Kraflab and JCD for a reason here:

• Is there a way to reupload these executables? Despite being a test, they are relevant for preservation. So i'd love to hear how you both think about this :)

12 hours ago, PVS said:

From the link below you can find something named Heretic 1.3a/Hexen 1.1a made in 2013, modifications without removing the original limits for demos, but with enhanced support for network games, etc.

http://maraakate.org/Kali/downloads.html

Thank you for these, that's a link i had not yet found!

Unfortunately, the Hexen and Heretic releases aren't available, and not even on archive.org. The Doom variant, is however.

12 hours ago, PVS said:

About Heretic demorecoding history - it’s hard for me to explain in English, rather it’s a philosophical question, even from the third attempt I can’t explain correctly about the simple numbering of my versions, you don’t understand me, and this question it will be even more difficult.

That is alright - I think you explained yourself well here, and i thank you for your worthwhile insight! Thank you.

I don't have a copy of jcd's port anymore. I guess it was still a work in progress at the time.

1 hour ago, kraflab said:

I don't have a copy of jcd's port anymore. I guess it was still a work in progress at the time.

Unfortunately. I take it the Kali builds are of a similar fate?

One thing that has taken me by surprise is that there is a rather condensed list of demo-focused ports and builds for Doom on Doomdesda, but for Heretic-N, there is very little in the way of a repository where folks can download these custom ports and exes - I only know of VVheretic and PVS's works purely by research.

Since you are a rather leading figure in this, perhaps such a repository is an idea? PVS listed quite a few ports already, perhaps you know more?

I host a bunch of ports here: https://www.dsdarchive.com/ports

The intention wasn't to archive all ports but just to keep the tools people need to play back the demos on the site. That being said, I'm happy to host other ports of historic value. The only thing in there that might interest you is wHeretic, if you haven't seen that.

You might find this page interesting, if you haven't seen it: https://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/ports/?platform=2

Quite a few hexen and heretic ports there as well.

Speaking of wHeretic, here are some fun pages shock and I dug through back when I was going through opulent's heretic archives:

https://web.archive.org/web/20010701232200/www.raven-games.com/hosted/wheretic/

https://web.archive.org/web/20041115154030/http://www.raven-games.com:80/hosted/wheretic/readme/whtc05a9.html

32 minutes ago, kraflab said:

I host a bunch of ports here: https://www.dsdarchive.com/ports

The intention wasn't to archive all ports but just to keep the tools people need to play back the demos on the site. That being said, I'm happy to host other ports of historic value. The only thing in there that might interest you is wHeretic, if you haven't seen that.

 

You might find this page interesting, if you haven't seen it: https://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/ports/?platform=2

Quite a few hexen and heretic ports there as well.

That's what i am after. To host ports of historic value. I reckon PVS's JHeretic port is one of those that should be rehosted. In the soon future, i may be able to provide a host aswell, as i have been generously given some webspace on DRDTeam for these hard to come by ports.

I was more thinking about such stuff like the aforementioned JHeretic port, and more these demorun focussed ports in general.

Unfortunately, being such a web scavenger, everything linked above is what i knew of - Even WHeretic :O But:

32 minutes ago, kraflab said:

 

Speaking of wHeretic, here are some fun pages shock and I dug through back when I was going through opulent's heretic archives:

https://web.archive.org/web/20010701232200/www.raven-games.com/hosted/wheretic/

https://web.archive.org/web/20041115154030/http://www.raven-games.com:80/hosted/wheretic/readme/whtc05a9.html

These two links are insightful :) One day ill get a write up for these things on the Wiki, but i know the Heretic ports history is quite convoluted - I found out the hard way when documenting the Linux Heretic port.

Thanks Redneckerz for your attention to my hobby project, I can imagine that it was not easy to find, but I don’t hear the main thing for myself - you a able to run it or not, does it work fine on your system? jHeretic(se) is not relevant today, I know that, and I don’t want extra problems for DSDA guys, when they start to be pulled - why it doesn’t work, it doesn’t start, etc. In any case, now I like the situation more, because I recorded several demos where honestly indicated the version on which they were recorded, but it was nowhere to be found and now it is here, on the forum, you're a hardcore user? ok, try it. But you can use it as you see fit, this is my little work for you guys, why do I need it alone.

More... The last technical desync I could eliminate only in 2017, therefore, it was simply impossible to find this version, I did not see the point in publishing it with desyncs. But even now still remains the possibility to record desync demo on this port, because someone will not read my txt, where it is written - you can not record demo with GL-Nodes, and this is certainly bad in this version. I have come a long way with this hobby project, but only because I am not a professional programmer, I am more like a Heretic demo fan, who’s tired of waiting for a port for demos and decided to try it myself, using an already completed project, this beta jHeretic 0.93 by Jaakko Kerдnen. If the Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 appeared in 2013 I wouldn’t even think about touching this old jHeretic, because it’s necessary, I recommend Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 and higher to everyone for demorecording, it is perfectly compatible with original game, so far I have not found no one desync on it.

CHexen was indicated in one txt file for coop demo by JCD, yes, but I remember that he said that they also have their own DOS modification for Heretic, but the name is unknown to me and I'm just joking - call this CHeretic :) Smart Heretic I managed to steal then, at that link. Of course, I can be wrong about these versions, but the author is here, now he is busy recording Doom demos, maybe later he will clarify the situation to us.

wHeretic v0.5a9 I have, but I'm looking for older versions of this port, they may be fully compatible with the original game and more suitable for demos. If anyone has an older versions, please share.

vvHeretic 1,2,4 and Heretic 1.3a/Hexen 1.1a, if it is interesting to someone.
 

vvHeretic1_2_4.zip

Heretic 1.3a_Hexen 1.1a.zip

9 hours ago, PVS said:

Thanks Redneckerz for your attention to my hobby project, I can imagine that it was not easy to find, but I don’t hear the main thing for myself - you a able to run it or not, does it work fine on your system?

Do you mean your JHeretic build? Because i can test that ofcourse, Windows 7 and all. Just let me know :)

In general, if anything, Doom/Heretic demo-recording is so woefully underrepresented historically - It needs whole new pages on the Wiki, and that is what i will be doing one way or another. More visibility never has hurted anyone :)

9 hours ago, PVS said:

CHexen was indicated in one txt file for coop demo by JCD, yes, but I remember that he said that they also have their own DOS modification for Heretic, but the name is unknown to me and I'm just joking - call this CHeretic :) Smart Heretic I managed to steal then, at that link.

I have tagged @JCD prior to this, but perhaps he can clear up about his status on Smart Heretic. It was a test, after all, but historically, its interesting - as always :P Everything falls back on historical significance. Well, a demo-focused Heretic port (Similar to your JHeretic work) is historically significant in my eyes.

9 hours ago, PVS said:

vvHeretic 1,2,4 and Heretic 1.3a/Hexen 1.1a, if it is interesting to someone.

 

vvHeretic1_2_4.zip

Heretic 1.3a_Hexen 1.1a.zip

Superb :) I have accquired some webspace recently from DRDTeam for archiving things of this exact purpose - As these are hosted on Doomworld but in hard-to-find posts. Though i have zero experience in getting a rudimentary index.html on the page (Its a files archive after all) ill make sure stuff like this will get hosted as a mirror.

No need to test this old jHeretic on Win7, do not waste your time, I know a little the situation there, it can work on Win7, but with limitations, and maybe not on very new hardware and drivers. I just thought that if you are interested in old programs - you are also interested in running them, i.e. you have old PC.

If you collect information about demorecording it is interesting to me, if there is something ready - give a link please, maybe there I will find something new for myself. In my opinion, historical significance for demorecording represent not source ports - only demo files themselves and people, who recorded them.

Hey,

Sorry for the late answer.

It's always nice to see some people interested in Heretic/Hexen speedrun :)

I recorded a lot of demos with vvheretic4

About my ports :

- Cheretic/CHexen were Dos ports and they were used mainly for sm-max coop demos. Here a part of the changelog :

Commands :
	-conpl X
	-stics
	-hudsts
	-hudt
	-maxdemo X
	-nofinale
	-noquit
	-nochat

v0.2:
	- fix respawning in multiplayer demo
	- add intermission and multilevel in demo recording
	- add multiplayer demo playback
	- add shorttics [-stics]
	- Fix mouse when recording
	- fix timedemo
	- fix action "raise To Nearest Sector And Change Floor" (e4m1 ending)
	- add -nofinale command to see the intermission at the end of an episode
	- add -conpl command to allow spying another player in playdemo
	- add a hud timer [-hudt]
	- add multiplayer stats (kills & secrets) [-hudsts]
	- fix intermission of episodes 4, 5 and 6
	- add new althud
	- add -maxdemo command
	- add -noquit command to disable the 'q' key
	- add -nochat command

- Smart Heretic was a test source port. It was an SDL1 win32 source port which has basically the same changes as Cheretic.

a screenshot of sHeretic :

^It show the new alt hud and some multiplayer stats, a timer with ms. (sorry for the small size)

I think i still have the executables. But the readme is in french. I can translate it and repack all of that if you really need this haha.

I'm still working on a real heretic sourceport (actually in stand by mode) but nothing to show actually, people don't have interest in heretic demo ^^

don't hesitate to ask if i'm missing or forgot something :)

11 hours ago, PVS said:

I just thought that if you are interested in old programs - you are also interested in running them, i.e. you have old PC.

That is actually the case! However i have to resort to DOSBox as the PC i use is several generations newer than what you play your JHeretic build with (Athlon X2, 3 GB DDR2, Geforce 6150). Its still ancient though :P

I assumed you were referring to your JHeretic build and whether or not i had tested it.

I do have two older thin clients lying around that have weaker hardware, but they aren't set up yet. So i do all testing in DOSBox if its a DOS executable.

11 hours ago, PVS said:

If you collect information about demorecording it is interesting to me, if there is something ready - give a link please, maybe there I will find something new for myself.

Ofcourse! I still have to set the archive up and get things hosted, so it may take some time (Because i know zilch about that!), but ultimately it should function as either a files archive for those hard to come by programs whose links are defunct, or act as a mirror for some.

For Demo focused ports, i would imagine these have a special folder to distinguish them from more general ones. This should also be reflected in the Wiki. Such is quite an undertaking though so my first step for that would be to write an article listing all current ports. Eventually i could bridge this to its own category (As it should be.)

11 hours ago, PVS said:

In my opinion, historical significance for demorecording represent not source ports - only demo files themselves and people, who recorded them.

I think it goes hand in hand - And demo files have some great representation as is, just not on the Wiki yet. I do think however that demo files run by customized engines deserve a prominent mention - Current demo sites simply mention what build was used, but not what the differences are.

11 hours ago, JCD said:

About my ports :

- Cheretic/CHexen were Dos ports and they were used mainly for sm-max coop demos. Here a part of the changelog :

- Smart Heretic was a test source port. It was an SDL1 win32 source port which has basically the same changes as Cheretic.

Thank you for responding, JCD! And honestly, each of these has my interest in more ways than one, as that represents quite some work!

11 hours ago, JCD said:

I think i still have the executables. But the readme is in french. I can translate it and repack all of that if you really need this haha.

By all means! These ports (CHeretic/Chexen/Smart Heretic) represent a part of demo history, no matter that its Heretic!

I consider it only just that the demorunning community in general and the Heretic running community in specfic get proper representation, even when these are lesser known aspects of Doom history.

Oh how I guessed at the expense of name CHeretic, I solved this puzzle blindly! But the logic here is not complicated, yes :)

Redneckerz
Understandably. I think you will have not much problems with information about Heretic/Hexen demorecording, because its quantity is not large, more work will be with information about Doom demorecording.

JCD
Ok, I don't hesitate.

"I recorded a lot of demos with vvheretic4" - you record new demos? If so, then probably my old browser completely fails already, because I don’t see them, but really want to see.

"fix respawning in multiplayer demo" - what kind of problem in engine do you mean? I played and recorded/playback a number of vanilla DM/Coop demos, something I don’t remember the problems with respawning there.

CHeretic/CHexen/Smart Heretic: if you can show something - it would be nice, if not - I understand you well. I am particularly interested in DOS CHexen, because I also have a little work with Hexen, but sometimes there’s nothing to compare synchronization, original choco - desynced itself, vanilla - limited, Hexen-Plus get stuck when playback net demos.

"people don't have interest in heretic demo" - what? Gargoyle told me that Maulotaur went to your house, get your Phoenix out from under the bed faster, be ready! Just kidding, I understand what you mean, I think, the game itself should be liked from the beginning, everything else is a lie.

I periodically record demos for myself, but there’s nowhere to put it, all without standard categories. For example, for fun.
Category: Nightmare Survive
Rules: Black Plague (skill 5) + respawn, 100% secrets and items, kill as many monsters as possible. Demo with the most kills count is the best.
 

I am sure that Doom guys recorded something like this, but I have not yet found where these demos are.
 

Survive1-3.zip

Interesting. So the goal is to keep killing as long as you can basically? I guess there's no reasonable way to put this on dsda because it isn't ranked by time but by a counter. The goal is then not speed, thus not a speed demo. Very cool though regardless.

18 hours ago, PVS said:

Oh how I guessed at the expense of name CHeretic, I solved this puzzle blindly! But the logic here is not complicated, yes :)

Redneckerz
Understandably. I think you will have not much problems with information about Heretic/Hexen demorecording, because its quantity is not large, more work will be with information about Doom demorecording.

Exactly. Fortunately, there is already quite a lot of stuff available about Demo-focused works within Doom given its longer lasting legacy, even when its not always clear (timer.zip, for instance does not instantly explain its actually a source port.) or Master (By Entryway).

This is why i consider it important, also from a historic perspective, to cover ports like the ''A'' hacks from Kate, but also those from @JCD.  And atleast you and me are interested, at the very least :)

On 12 марта 2020 г. at 2:38 AM, kraflab said:

Interesting. So the goal is to keep killing as long as you can basically?

Yep. In fact, it turns out pretty interesting, somewhere near the end, scared to die and think - need go to exit, that's enough, but greed says - one more monster, one more, then bam - these bastards spawn around you unexpectedly and you are corpse, hehe

I did not offer this for DSDA, no problem, just show you. Need to record more demos and understand - how interesting it is to watch them, with counters on hud it’s more interesting to playback such demos.
 

I just wanted to drop in and say that I love seeing the discussion about heretic demo and port stuffs, <3 y'all. Additionally,

On 3/10/2020 at 7:36 PM, JCD said:

I'm still working on a real heretic sourceport (actually in stand by mode) but nothing to show actually, people don't have interest in heretic demo ^^

if we ever see a heretic source port (even just of the limit-removing variety, or with modern prboom+-ish fanciness stuff, given choco heretic is already good and crispy is -mostly- functional) I would heavily support it by making maps, attempting runs, and would also unquestionably support the creator's patreon. That would also only leave the need for a better (read: working) version of HHE, of which I will also support that future creator's patreon as well.

4 hours ago, Fonze said:

crispy is -mostly- functional

Why only "mostly"?

I may be misremembering things, but aren't there issues with crispy heretic wrt demo compat?

1 hour ago, Fonze said:

I may be misremembering things, but aren't there issues with crispy heretic wrt demo compat?

Either this has never been brought to my attention or I am simply too much occupied with other stuff...

Ah, well I am probably misremembering then; apologies. If there are any issues I find in further use I'll be sure to report them.

The only issue I've had with crispy heretic is just that it was "left behind" compared to crispy doom 😄

9 hours ago, Fonze said:

I just wanted to drop in and say that I love seeing the discussion about heretic demo and port stuffs, <3 y'all. Additionally,

You are welcome Fonze :)

9 hours ago, Fonze said:

That would also only leave the need for a better (read: working) version of HHE, of which I will also support that future creator's patreon as well.

I did some recent insight into HHE given my Doomhack research and it being based off of it. It also uses a copied exe, Herehack.exe. What's more, there are several WADS that make use of it - Ichor's Carnage Galore II uses it to make a custom Herehacked engine called Iheretic.exe, and Shadowcaster uses it to rename its executable Shadow.exe.

I understand HHE has more limitations than Dehacked (But likely less than its Strife counterpart, Sehacked, haha) but i think there is some worthwhile stuff to venture in. Idgames does have some interesting Dehacked patches like a third person camera or something similar that could be well adapted to Heretic. Though, HHE is not as omnipresent as Dehacked is.

1 hour ago, kraflab said:

The only issue I've had with crispy heretic is just that it was "left behind" compared to crispy doom 😄

Is there any reason as to why Russian Heretic isn't considered? Despite the name, it can be run in English. I reckon it has less advanced demo recording tools?

2 hours ago, Fonze said:

Ah, well I am probably misremembering then; apologies. If there are any issues I find in further use I'll be sure to report them.

There was some desync in Russian Heretic, but it was fixed some time ago:

https://github.com/JNechaevsky/russian-doom/commit/dc0a9a95fca6c7668833d91816a6627822703b87

E2M1 NoMo 0:18

E2M1 Pacifist 0:19

h2o11894.zip

h2s1-019.zip

E1M7 NoMo 0:45

h1o74583.zip

Hello,

Here are some source port you'll probably be interested in haha

CHERETIC.zip

CHEXEN.zip

Sheretic02.zip

They are not updated anymore, I just found them in an old HDD :)

Oh and I just made that

h5p3s012.zip

enjoy ;)

3 hours ago, JCD said:

Hello,

 

Here are some source port you'll probably be interested in haha

CHERETIC.zip

CHEXEN.zip

Sheretic02.zip

They are not updated anymore, I just found them in an old HDD :)

 

Oh and I just made that

h5p3s012.zip

 

enjoy ;)

And you didn't think about tagging anyone? :P What an amazing post, thank you so much. This will be extremely useful for a myriad of reasons.

It seems that we now have most of the custom demo focused source works in place. Thank you, for providing these.

@Opulent please take note!