I'm a bit confused by the lore tbh

Ya’ll arguing about lore that was literally put into the game last minute (2016). No shit there are inconsistencies, you can’t explain everything when not even id could. Everything was literally slapped on last minute, it wasn’t until eternal they expanded.

4 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

I mean, Doomguy did that on Ultimate Doom E4 and it wasn't a big deal...

 

Makes sense.

 

But Let's wait for a proper answer I guess

Wasn't a big deal... Because people didn't care about the story at that time. ;P

I won't stop you from being invested in the lore... But, do expect that kind of thing to come without answers. Wich is also why I am a bit disapointed that they made the OG protagonist the same guy. Because I knew it would create that kind of confusion.

Doom 2016 was built to be a reboot. Not a sequel. Wich is why you find so much issues now that Eternal is out. They retconned themselves to include the OG protagonist.

6 minutes ago, Thermal Lance said:

I am a bit disapointed that they made the OG protagonist the same guy. Because I knew it would create that kind of confusion.

On that very case though, you are probably in a few.

But I respect it

2 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

On that very case though, you are probably in a few.

 

But I respect it

A few? Not so sure about that. But, it's pointless to argue over that now that it's done. Many people liked him being a blank slate. Because that is what Doomguy used to be. A blank slate for the player to project himself onto. You are Doomguy. Now, we have to accept that Doomguy is Mr. Angry McAnger. 

But, as said, 2016 was meant to be a reboot wich is what causes all those issues. This is fan service gone wrong if you get what I mean. That's what you get when people tries too hard to explain something and finally get what they asked for even if it makes no sense whatsoever.

2 minutes ago, Thermal Lance said:

A few? Not so sure about that. But, it's pointless to argue over that now that it's done. Many people liked him being a blank slate. Because that is what Doomguy used to be. A blank slate for the player to project himself onto. You are Doomguy. Now, we have to accept that Doomguy is Mr. Angry McAnger. 

 

But, as said, 2016 was meant to be a reboot wich is what causes all those issues. This is fan service gone wrong if you get what I mean. That's what you get when people tries too hard to explain something and finally get what they asked for even if it makes no sense whatsoever.

A blank slate whose face we could also see on the bottom of the screen at all times,  I definitely don’t look like Doomguy, so that idea only goes so far.

3 minutes ago, Thermal Lance said:

Many people liked him being a blank slate. Because that is what Doomguy used to be. A blank slate for the player to project himself onto.

Same for BJ Blazkowicz.

But it ended up being a better protagonist when it was not mute (I'm not a huge fan of Wolfenstein II, but...)

Here's what I'm confused about.

The Sentinel homeworld. Is it Argent D'Nur? Or is that just a city on a planet. What about Exultia, Taras Nabad, and Sentinel Prime? Are all of those just cities on Argent D'Nur. If that's the case why aren't they consumed in Hell like D'Nur was? Did the demons only decide to partially consume the planet?

Here's another question, is the Icon of Sin NOT the betrayer's son? (As I had hoped). The codex wrote to me that the Icon existed before and that Valen's son was somehow adhered to it? That would make sense considering the beast was still alive after you blew up his heart. So then what was the point of the heart? Was it to just keep the Icon under control? So many questions, I hope they clear it up soon.

1 minute ago, BluePineapple72 said:

is the Icon of Sin NOT the betrayer's son?

He is Velen's son resurrected in a demonic form.

1 minute ago, BluePineapple72 said:

Was it to just keep the Icon under control?

Highly possible. The moment you kill the heart in the game the Icon goes alive and just starts not giving a f about Urdak and Khan Makyr

17 minutes ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

A blank slate whose face we could also see on the bottom of the screen at all times,  I definitely don’t look like Doomguy, so that idea only goes so far.

Doesen't matter. The character himself is a blank slate. And that is what matters. The face had a gameplay function just like in wolfenstein. You could tell, at a glance, how close you we're to death.  

17 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Same for BJ Blazkowicz.

 

But it ended up being a better protagonist when it was not mute (I'm not a huge fan of Wolfenstein II, but...)

 

 

If you like it you like it. I jusr prefered to give Doomguy whatever voice/personality I wanted. To each their own I guess.

Just now, Thermal Lance said:

The face had a gameplay function just like in wolfenstein. You could tell, at a glance, how close you we're to death.  

You still have the low health message though...

1 minute ago, Thermal Lance said:

Doesen't matter.

Doom had a story, but it was not bold like in Doom Eternal

1 minute ago, The Doommer said:

You still have the low health message though...

 

Doom had a story, but it was not bold like in Doom Eternal

I do not understand what is the problem with the face having a gameplay function.

Doom story was there yes... But, it was there to be there. Nothing was seriously expected to be carried into any canon. I trust I do not have to pull off the "porn movie" quote.

1 minute ago, Thermal Lance said:

I trust I do not have to pull off the "porn movie" quote.

I know that.

Still, it did have a story but was not important.

2 minutes ago, Thermal Lance said:

I do not understand what is the problem with the face having a gameplay function.

Won't work now.

I mean, people are straight up tearing DE apart for having platforming and arcade elements

Imagine a face to show you yours status...

1 minute ago, The Doommer said:

I know that.

Still, it did have a story but was not important.

 

Won't work now.

 

I mean, people are straight up tearing DE apart for having platforming and arcade elements

Imagine a face to show you yours status...

I would enjoy the face making a come back. It's something I always enjoyed. Especially the grin when picking up powerful weapons. 

About people tearing DE apart... People are people. There will always be people bitching about something somewhere. I personally think it is a bit out of place in a Doom game, but, since I did not try DE yet.. I prefer to hold my judgement before I do. Who knows? I might enjoy that platforming if it was done right.

1 minute ago, Thermal Lance said:

About people tearing DE apart... People are people. There will always be people bitching about something somewhere. I personally think it is a bit out of place in a Doom game, but, since I did not try DE yet.. I prefer to hold my judgement before I do. Who knows? I might enjoy that platforming if it was done right.

Agreed. But I suggest trying DE

Word of warning though: You are gonna have a git gud mentality playing it...

2 minutes ago, Thermal Lance said:

I would enjoy the face making a come back. It's something I always enjoyed. Especially the grin when picking up powerful weapons. 

Same, but I tell you man, people are already digging the game to find something to bitch about...

4 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Agreed. But I suggest trying DE

Word of warning though: You are gonna have a git gud mentality playing it...

 

Same, but I tell you man, people are already digging the game to find something to bitch about...

I'm already in the Git Gud mentality. Currently re-playing Doom II on UV. I never was a Doom God. Damn this game is harder than I remember it being. Some maps are borderline slaughter maps. xD

Time loop / alternate reality jumping, that or DOOM 2016 is so far into the future that humanity has had to restart from DOOM II so there being a second UAC and Icon of Sin is practically conincidence.

57 minutes ago, Gradius said:

Time loop / alternate reality jumping, that or DOOM 2016 is so far into the future that humanity has had to restart from DOOM II so there being a second UAC and Icon of Sin is practically conincidence.

Pretty sure there is just one Icon though, despite the multiverse thing they are doing. The betrayer's son isn't explicitly the Icon itself so to speak (it's his mortal heart that lets it be controlled, otherwise its got a mind of its own), so it could have existed before Velen betrayed.

2 hours ago, Thermal Lance said:

I'm already in the Git Gud mentality. Currently re-playing Doom II on UV. I never was a Doom God. Damn this game is harder than I remember it being. Some maps are borderline slaughter maps. xD

doom 2 is ... i dunno. it's surprising some of these maps made it into the game lol.

23 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

Pretty sure there is just one Icon though,

Yep. Doom guy kills demons in his universe. Travels to Hell which is a multiverse nexus (like Urdak) and kills more demons.
Goes back to Earth.... but is it his Earth? Odds say no.

Back to Hell, fights some more demons, this time kills the Icon of Sin.

Icon of Sin is resurrected by the Khan, you fight it again, once again in a different Earth 
 

20 hours ago, thewormofautumn said:

but is it his Earth? Odds say no.

Why though?

I get that people say Hell is a travel point to alternate dimensions, but at this point there's no evidence  that he ever ended up in a different universe before the end of Doom 64

20 hours ago, thewormofautumn said:

Back to Hell, fights some more demons, this time kills the Icon of Sin.

Which I never understood how he kills him when he shoves a crucible in his brain in Doom Eternal to kill him and the whole point of him finding the crucible was "A Titan can only be killed by the Crucible"

Dont think about it or your head will explode Scanners-style. The story itself is senseless and everything else is fan service, that is all.

Sorry for the bump

But I think I found a good answer to most of the questions:

This means he is in another dimension and also went back into time. This makes lots of senses. 

On 3/27/2020 at 6:54 AM, AtimZarr1 said:

 

After defeating Xaero in combat, "Doom" was titled champion of the Arena. He was soon confronted by the Vadrigar, who offered the bloodied marine a reward for amusing the Arena Masters with hellishly good carnage. Very few know of what wish was granted. All that remains of that blip in time is a curious relic of unknown origin, placed next to the Slayer's other belongings of importance within the Fortress of Doom.

 

On 3/27/2020 at 6:05 AM, Doomguy-1993 said:

The real question is, where in the timeline does Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 fit? Did Hell somehow throw him back in time to 2001? 

It's a reference to the old notion that classic Doom felt like being Bruce Lee on a skateboard, that's why it's yellow with a black stripe, sorry if it was already mentioned.

Multiverse theory.

Earth-1:

The Ultimate Doom

Sigil

Doom II: Hell on Earth

The Master Levels

No Rest for the Living

Final Doom

Doom 64  

The Lost Levels

Doomguy stays in hell until the events of Doom (2016), which is Earth-2:

Doom (2016)

Doom VFR

Doom Eternal

And then there is Earth-3, which is as yet not connected and stars different characters:

Doom 3

Resurrection of Evil

The Lost Mission

Basically, Hell is the link between the different worlds. Doomguy came from Earth-1 and ended up on Earth-2.

On 3/26/2020 at 4:42 PM, oCrapaCreeper said:

Doomguy himself is from another timeline. Hell warps time and reality, he never made it back to his own time and just stayed in hell until he ended up in Argent D’ nur, kickstarting the cycle again in that reality.

Exactly! That's why I believe that the Betrayer & the Slayer are actually the same character from different timelines. Hayden plucked the Eternal slayer from another timeline.

The flashbacks that occur in Tara's Nabad are of the player's Slayer coming to grips with the memories of the "correct" Slayer's memories overlapping his own. HE never experienced that, or may have experienced it in another manner.

I feel like Hell itself can be affected by the multiverse with the differences in lore, art style and gameplay.

Like if Nekravol was in classic Doom, the soul harvesting machines would've looked more sci-fi like E2/E3 and there probably wouldn't be anything to do with the Maykrs.

On 4/18/2020 at 3:22 AM, famicommander said:

Multiverse theory.

 

Earth-1:

The Ultimate Doom

Sigil

Doom II: Hell on Earth

The Master Levels

No Rest for the Living

Final Doom

Doom 64  

The Lost Levels

 

Doomguy stays in hell until the events of Doom (2016), which is Earth-2:

Doom (2016)

Doom VFR

Doom Eternal

I'm wondering why the multiverse theory doesn't get more attention... it answers many important questions:

Earth storyline, multiverse A:

- Doom 1+2+64 all happened

- Doomguy stays in Hell

Sentinel storyline, multiverse B:

- Sentinels home world gets peace by the work of the Knight Sentinels

- Sentinels travel the universe and meet the Maykrs

- Maykrs and Sentinels team up and conquer other worlds

- For some unknown reason the Doomguy from multiverse A enters multiverse B near Sentinel Prime (I expect this to be explained in one of the DLCs)

- Doomguy tells them about a yet unknown dimension called hell

- Maykrs and Sentinels try to conquer hell as well

- Argents people get corrupted, priests team up with Khan Maykr

- Khan Maykr uses hell energy to feed her own world

- Khan Maykrs makes a deal with hells Dark Lord: She will gift him worlds to consume and he allows her to process Argent energy in hell

- Samur Maykr doesn't like the development, he steals the Father intelligence and gifts the Slayer godlike powers

- Civil war in the Sentinels home world

- Doomguy and the other Sentinels get trapped in hell due to the Betrayer but due to the gift of Samur hell cannot kill Doomguy, they just trap him

Earth storyline, multiverse B:

- Samur Maykrs either is born as Samuel Hayden or replaces him during the body transformation, maybe they even merged in consensus

- UAC discovers Argent breach on Mars, for some unknown reason (maybe a leftover from City of Hebeth)

- Samur installs the fathers intelligence as a new entity called Vega to aid him during his research

- UAC discovers Hell

- UAC discovers trapped Doomguy in hell

- Doom 2016 happens

- Earth gets attacked by Hell

- Samuel Haydens plan, to beat the forces of Hell with the help of the Crucible (and a new synthetic Argent energy) fails

- Doom Eternal happens

What I still don't understand is the role of the Crucible. It's supposed to crush the divide and corrupt all realms, but the realms have already been corrupted when the connection between Hell and Urdak has been established by the Khan Maykr?

And why was Urdak dying?

11 hours ago, igg said:

And why was Urdak dying?

Because the Father was taken, apparently; the codex entries imply his essence is required for the birth of a new Khan Maykr and for the Transfiguration to lead to rebirth of the Maykrs in general. Without that, they've taken to using Argent energy to simply become immortal instead. In particular, VEGA's analysis states, regarding the Transfiguration, that "this process seems to have been complicated in the recent past."

This has some potential implications depending on the timing. If the Seraphim took the Father even before the Khan Maykr became corrupt and had the Nekravol built so she could use Argent energy, it may imply she was of an evil or unreliable nature very early on, and that he had reason to doubt her leadership even before what she did to Argent D'Nur.

Otherwise, the conclusion could be that the Seraphim himself is evil and caused all of this out of selfish rebellion. An equally valid alternative, but I feel it is less likely for some reason.

It's said that Hell and Urdak are cosmologically opposite, and that it's impossible for a Maykr to travel to Hell (hence Khan Maykr needing the Sentinels as catspaws) and vice-versa, demons are barred from entering Urdak. That is, until the Icon of Sin is awakened in Urdak, as this breaks the seal.

Okay.

Question 1: why can argent energy travel directly from Hell to Urdak, if the two dimensions are opposites?

Question 2: how was the Icon of Sin brought into Urdak despite the seal and the incompatible nature?

Question 3: why didn't Khanie resurrect the Icon directly on Earth, since she can travel there and the demons can travel there too?