what about FreeQuake?

44 minutes ago, Ferk said:

Since nobody seems to have mentioned it, there's a more recent attempt at creating an openly licensed Quake asset replacement:

    https://github.com/MissLav/LibreQuake

Looks interesting, I'll check this out tomorrow....

It's still very much work in progress though, most of the monsters are incomplete.

But they kept lovecraftian theme and it looks very promising already:

59 minutes ago, Ferk said:

Since nobody seems to have mentioned it, there's a more recent attempt at creating an openly licensed Quake asset replacement:

    https://github.com/MissLav/LibreQuake

It already looks in better shape than its predecessors, and they showcase active developments on their discord channel.

 

About OQPlus: its website seems to have gone away btw, since mancubus.net is apparently gone.

This has caught my attention. Especially the weapons look sexy (they actually look much better than vanilla Quake's).

I was able to make LibreQuake run with some extra OQ assets (it still complains about missing sounds and stuff though), and indeed it looks very neat, and the weapons are spot on:

Well the reply on the OA forums was not encouraging though, seems leilei would rather the OQ+ stuff (etc) just fade into history, and I will respect that.

17 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

I was able to make LibreQuake run with some extra OQ assets (it still complains about missing sounds and stuff though), and indeed it looks very neat, and the weapons are spot on:

Nice. I'd be surprised if the LibreQuake people weren't already aware of OQ, but it looks like they're both GPL-licensed, so LibreQuake could legitimately impor the OQ resources if they wanted to.

29 minutes ago, Jon said:

but it looks like they're both GPL-licensed

LibreQuake is BSD licensed.

That would explain why I haven't seen any open-quartz textures or models in there.

P.S. forgot to say that I could run it in Darkplaces without any additional data using the following command:

darkplaces -customgamedirname1 lq1

5 hours ago, andrewj said:

Well the reply on the OA forums was not encouraging though, seems leilei would rather the OQ+ stuff (etc) just fade into history, and I will respect that.

 

Thanks for asking anyway! I suspected that this was the case, it's a shame to see the project go because I liked it, but leilei will probably never go back to it because of OA development. Others have found their own way, thankfully :)

2 hours ago, andrewj said:

P.S. forgot to say that I could run it in Darkplaces without any additional data using the following command:

darkplaces -customgamedirname1 lq1

 

Thanks!

BTW, I'm unable to access http://www.icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces, is it just me or what? UPD: Just me, 'cause I can still save live pages via the Wayback Machine.

The Xonotic engine can run it too (with the same command line), as it is basically the Darkplaces engine with a few improvements here and there.

Slightly off-topic (but still sorta relevant I guess), I mentioned testing Open Quartz data with the demo of X-Men: The Ravages of Apocalypse, and after you mentioned the -customgamedirname1 parameter in DarkPlaces (which I think is how I ran the OQ+ data back then) I tried this out with the same demo too (without any external data sets). With this I noticed that for some reason, Quakespasm overrides some of the sounds from the X-Men demo PAK file with Open Quartz sounds, such as what seems to be most sound effects of the enemies. Indeed the X-Men game appears to use some default Quake sounds such as door and elevator noises, but I thought that the sound effects of whatever custom game data should take precedence if not missing.

I run the demo with the command

quakespasm -game xmendemo %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9 +map start

UPD: Nevermind, I was wrong, it simply plays the missing sounds, no overriding of base data here.

10 hours ago, andrewj said:

LibreQuake is BSD licensed.

You’re right, I’m sorry, I skimmed the readme and made the wrong assumption after seeing the prominent links to GNU in this section 

https://github.com/MissLav/LibreQuake/blob/master/README.md#what-free-means

Neato! Now I can play Quake without having to pirate it...

Not sure if LibreQuake might get the protagonist's mug to be in the HUD instead of a retracting cross for what seems to look like a placeholder between that and the ammo box type that the ammo HUD was too. But I do like my angry looking protagonists in a box though. :P

Librequake is something I've been watching off and on. Their discord is somewhat regularly active.

On 6/1/2020 at 8:47 AM, andrewj said:

The Xonotic engine can run it too (with the same command line), as it is basically the Darkplaces engine with a few improvements here and there.

Realy? I had no idea. I'm going to have to check that out.

I just learned that you can play the entire Quake 1 single player campaign in Rexuiz, which is a fork of Nexuiz Classic (that's based on the DarkPlaces engine IIRC) geared towards low-spec machines, as Quake levels are now GPL. Looks very... unusual?

I guess theoretically, this could also support Quake custom levels and TCs as well.

26 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

I just learned that you can play the entire Quake 1 single player campaign in Rexuiz, which is a fork of Nexuiz Classic (that's based on the DarkPlaces engine IIRC) gead towards low-spec machines, as Quake levels are now GPL. Looks very... unusual?

 

I guess theoretically, this could also support Quake custom levels and TCs as well.

Same for Xonotic, another Nexuiz fork that is (IMO) far superior to Rexuiz. One of the devs of that set up a Quake-in-Xonotic co-op server too, as I recall, I played on it and it worked surprising well.

2 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

I just learned that you can play the entire Quake 1 single player campaign in Rexuiz, which is a fork of Nexuiz Classic (that's based on the DarkPlaces engine IIRC) geared towards low-spec machines, as Quake levels are now GPL. Looks very... unusual?

I guess theoretically, this could also support Quake custom levels and TCs as well.

I never had heard of Rexuiz, but it looks pretty good and just like Nexuiz Classic. Nice find.

On 3/14/2021 at 4:15 PM, MrFlibble said:

as Quake levels are now GPL.

they aren’t really. Romero released them as such, but he doesn’t own them and didn’t have permission to release them at all. 

Well then so much for word-of-mouth. I vaguely remember reading about that release when it happened and I think the GPL part was mentioned back then too, but I never checked the veracity of that.

Romero did release the sources and did claim they were under the GPL. That much is true. But because he didn’t own them, he had no legal right to release them (and I believe Bethesda were pissed off about it) and had no authority to apply the GPL to them. 

It's getting really hard to justify putting a lot of effort into making a free version of a game that retails for $7.45 Australian.

On 3/21/2021 at 2:13 AM, Duke of Pathoris said:

It's getting really hard to justify putting a lot of effort into making a free version of a game that retails for $7.45 Australian.

AFAIK the philosophy behind free software/FOSS is not to just produce something that is free as in free beer, but also free as in free speech. Even if Quake were sold for a pittance it's still copyrighted, you are limited in how you can modify it and/or use the assets etc. By contast, a libre game like Freed∞m gives everyone complete control of the assets, anyone is free to do as they please with any single piece of art, level, design, sound etc. with virtually no limitations.

7 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

AFAIK the philosophy behind free software/FOSS is not to just produce something that is free as in free beer, but also free as in free speech. Even if Quake were sold for a pittance it's still copyrighted, you are limited in how you can modify it and/or use the assets etc. By contast, a libre game like Freed∞m gives everyone complete control of the assets, anyone is free to do as they please with any single piece of art, level, design, sound etc. with virtually no limitations.

I am aware of the philosophy behind it. I just don't imagine enough people value that for Quake enough to make a FOSS version. Especially since a free IWAD for Doom is obviously Doom but a free game made from scratch in the Quake engine may as well be its own game.

17 hours ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

Especially since a free IWAD for Doom is obviously Doom but a free game made from scratch in the Quake engine may as well be its own game.

Imho, a free IWAD for Doom does not necessarily need to be Doom, much how a Quake PAK can be its own game while remaining compatible with Quake mods.

I do believe that a singleplayer-focused 3D game in a fully 3D engine is something that you don't see very often in the FOSS world... so it would be a welcome project in my view. Other than Freedoom, the only singleplayer FPS campaigns I've seen in any FOSS projects were actually based on multiplayer-centric games, without a real focus in singleplayer.

The fact that Freedoom is almost alone in the FPS singleplayer category in the FOSS world makes me wonder if it would have ever been possible for it to have gotten this level of attention, contributions and maturity had it not been for its goal of being Doom compatible.

Sure, it would be great if there was a very ambitious project that expanded and added extra stuff, but building up to match Quake-level of content is imho already a huge undertaking. And since the project is FOSS, expanding it could still happen in theory. I'm just happy enough that there's a team working on a foundation already, and using Quake-compatibility as a base makes already for a solid one.

10 hours ago, Ferk said:

The fact that Freedoom is almost alone in the FPS singleplayer category in the FOSS world makes me wonder if it would have ever been possible for it to have gotten this level of attention, contributions and maturity had it not been for its goal of being Doom compatible.

 

Sure, it would be great if there was a very ambitious project that expanded and added extra stuff, but building up to match Quake-level of content is imho already a huge undertaking. And since the project is FOSS, expanding it could still happen in theory. I'm just happy enough that there's a team working on a foundation already, and using Quake-compatibility as a base makes already for a solid one.

Doom compatibility is its selling point. And the fact that Doom is pretty much the biggest 2.5D game ever and anyone who wants to make their own 2.5D game (like Action Doom) uses it as a base, hence the value of FreeDoom. Quake and other early 3D games were cool but if you want to make a game like them, you might as well use Unity or Unreal. 

Freedoom has another advantage in addition to providing free assets - it's a free IWAD (game). If you want to sell your total conversion Doom PWAD (mod) on Steam, you don't need to invest time and effort into learning how to turn your PWAD into an IWAD, you can just bundle Freedoom2.wad with it, add a correct license.txt, and make the executable auto-load your PWAD in the commercial release. I think I've seen some GZDoom devs suggest that as an option of the ZDoom forums.

I imagine FreeQuake could do something similar, now that more people are seriously interested in gamedev using the Quake engine (Godot allows importing from TrenchBroom and there's Wrath: Aeon of Ruin...)

On 3/26/2021 at 12:26 AM, Duke of Pathoris said:

you might as well use Unity or Unreal

Then it won't be really fully FOSS. At that point, "you might as well" also make it freeware, or commercial. And then it would be harder to stand out among the rest of modern retro-inspired single-player FPS games that already exist.

Anyway, the bulk of the work is creating the assets and maps, so whether you want to use the Quake tools or Unreal/Unity boils down to a preference on what tools you're more comfortable with for the goal and your sense of fulfillment when you have your creation run in an engine that you love.

Quote

the fact that Doom is pretty much the biggest 2.5D game ever and anyone who wants to make their own 2.5D game (like Action Doom) uses it as a base

I don't see why that feeling can't be valid for Quake. Maybe personally for you that's not the case, but there are people who think of Quake 1 as the biggest 3D game ever, it just comes down to personal experience. Of course this is a Doom community so most people feel more nostalgic about Doom but there are Quake communities as well.

Also, you can make the same argument about Unity/Unreal for 2.5D games... if you know well how to use Unity/Unreal you'll find making an "Action Doom" in those more modern tools gives actually a lot more flexibility (and there are already a few retro FPS games done in those engines that are amazing). It'd be possible to make a template in Unity that can be reused to make it easy to create Doom-like games. But I wouldn't say that this would mean everyone should stop making IWADs, right?

Personally I'm quite fond of the idea of FOSS games that essentially remake a certain proprietary title, while avoiding plagiarism of course. Because such projects are usually made by people who love and deeply understand the source material, there is good opportunity for improvement and expanding upon the original concepts, without copyright concerns getting in the way and stifling creativity.

LibreQuake seems to be going for some very conscious and consistent Lovecraftian theme, which was only explored in a piecemeal way in the original Quake, I guess because of how the game was pulled in different directions during development. Can't say that could be a bad thing. And the art available so far is very high quality, there's no reason not to take advantage of modern hardware capabilities and use some high-detailed models and stuff.