1995 called. They want their Doom levels back.

Semi-sad face

Okay so the version that I had saved of my E1M4 is a day older than I had thought. I lost a few hours of work.

Nothing major though. I know where I was going with it so I can just recreate that stuff ^^;

Still sucks a little but it's managable.

Edit:

Sometimes when you come back to redo something you had already done before, you end up making it better the second time..

It just happened with one of the outside buildings and I'm rather pleased ^^ That makes it suck a little less.

Details on details? This is too meta.

Hey you! Thanks for stopping by ^^

What I realized yesterday: Another slightly confusing side-effect of "dreaming levels" (as mentioned in this posts "Added info") is, that things that make sense in a dream.. don't necessarily make sense in reality xD Which leaves me with a slight problem in level flow. I think I mentioned this before as a sidenote. I'll just draw onto the image from before, for reference:

^{BK does not stand for Burger King in this context. Sorry.}

Here's the "flow" as per 199X:

• come in from the left (not marked on the image because I forgot)
• clear the outside area (left of the purple rectangle), maybe find two secret areas (of sorts) and a bonus (computer map)
• go over to the right side (of the rectangle.. nowhere else to go, at least in this version)
• grab the blue key
• return to the main area, open the blue door and find the switch that opens up access to the red key
• eventually find the path that leads to the red key (RK)..

..from there on the stuff is straightforward. BUT!

Here are the problems:

1. Chances are, you'll never see that the Red Key is even locked up / closed off initially because there's no incentive or real reason to walk up the path to it, except while exploring.
2. When you leave the building with the Blue Door (BD), it opens up a nifty little "monster closet" of sorts. This kind of distracts from the actual next destination, though.

I already have a solution for "2".. the trigger for this will just be relocated to where it makes more "flow" sense, even if it goes against the original source material..

..but I'm still racking my brain about a sensible solution to "1". Because I want the player to know what the switch they find is for.. and that it now opened up something they knew was closed before. I'm contemplating putting something (like a necessary switch) in the structure with the Red Key (RK).. so you will have to pass by the Red Key and understand / recognize the visual cue when you later find the switch. 

I know I'll make this make sense eventually but right now I'm still dredging.

Actually, though, talking (writing) about this in this post already gave me a few more ideas.. but I'll leave this post up as a.. testimonial? xD

More on these ideas and how well they work.. later today!

Hey at least now I know where the key is!

This was one of my ideas to let the player see which direction the Blue Key is without immediately being able to get to it. 

^{Okay, sure. Neat. But why is there a hole in the wall?}

"Problem": The original idea to get the Blue Key is to jump into a hole which then teleports you into a rather uncomfortable room. Basically trying to create some "uncertainty followed by panic" situation for the player. I don't even remember if that was part of the dream.. but -even if it was- I'm not sure whether that idea has any reason (or right) to stay if it makes the level less fun to play. Besides, I might still include a similar situation on the way to the key.

I might add some gimmick to explain the hole.. or it might end up being closed off again xD 

But I wanted to share this anyways.

Small update with big news

So! I worked out the "you see the Red Key but can't get to it" now, too. After that initial "I might do it like this with the Blue Key" from yesterday.

I'm satisfied with how it turned out- even though the switch you find (in the building requiring the Blue Key to enter) now is kind of.. rather arbitrary. But then again, this is a 199X-inspired Doom level so I guess that's to be expected ^^;

I wanted to add some screenshots because I like how the adjustments look.. but my internet is currently really flaky (downstream is fine but upstream is 0.03 Mbps) so I can't upload the images right now. I'll add them tomorrow!

Sorry!

Here are the pictures that go along with yesterday's post:

Approaching the Red Key (whether it's locked or not)

^{Behind this door is another door, behind which is.. eventually.. the Red Key}

The switch that opens up the Key Access

^{A little more obviously changing something about access}

Also, I had another too short night (this time because of construction work outside) so I lost a few hours of my evening due to a "compensation nap" ^^; But I'm back at it again now xD

R ..WIP

Here's a first look at the "in progress" version of the opposite side of the door seen (very dimly) in the background behind the Blue Key in this picture.

^{All the same height (but it kind of makes sense since it's just part of the wall)}

I might still have to make adjustments because right now this construction doesn't obscure a direct line of sight between the two segments of the level.. see?

^{This map view brought to you by the letter E.}

I might end up adding a blocking pillar construction of sorts to the entrance from the screenshot above.. or some wraparound room before you actually get to that door.

But it's already 2am and- even though it's the weekend- I should not mess up my sleep schedule any further ^^;

See you tomorrow!

I know I don't say this often, but..

..it's all coming together xD

Here's the view from yesterday with some more detail / structures but without things because those aren't balanced yet:

^{Trying to align all this back in the day would've made me go insane. Well.. more insane.}

And here's the same scene from that window up there:

^{Don't mind that REDWALL1 in the background.. that part isn't adjusted yet ^^;}

The viewing angle just works so that you don't really notice the different ceiling heights (or that you can't see the top of some buildings, naturally, since this is Doom. It's even (slightly) more convincing in Engine.

Wait I'll show you:

^{And this way you even get to see some monsters :3}

There's a bunch of hitscan monsters here (Sergeants) that force you to seek cover but who also trigger a whole lot of amusing infighting xD

Also, parts of this level would make a rather neat Deathmatch arena. But that's not the goal.

I am going to go to bed earlier today. Can't stay up until 2am+ again xD

^{..he said at 1am as he turned on his switch.}

Goodnight!

I can't just leave without an overview update!

So here's the map in it's current "glory":

TODO (left to right):

• brush brush brush up the area in the lower left, which is still too much of "open door, shoot guy, repeat"
• connection between those two little rooms (see the arrow with the two pointy ends? In the "rightmost third" of the picture)
• everything in the rectangle on the right (that's where the REDWALL1 is)
• make the end / exit (lower right corner) a smidge less unfairly surprising

And that's it. Everything else is up to par by now, by my "standards". And of course it (obviously and predictably) ended up being more work than I had originally anticipated. I believe I had remembered the level to be better than it actually was.. but it's still fun because I ended up finding ways to salvage just about everything :)

But now I'm really going to bed. 1:30am. I guess that'll have to do ^^;

"Everything in the rectangle on the right"

Still not 100% done but getting there :3

^{Some fleshy goodness <3}

I figured I'd keep the original idea of the "SKINTEK" textures in the back of the level. Only a little less "just pasted".

How is it 1:30am again already? xD

Okay so I'm going to bed. Here's what I did today (where Doom is concerned):

^{There's a secret still waiting to happen, off to the right edge of this screenshot}

I'm not sure if this is self-explanatory.. maybe if you compare it to the previous map view. I'll give more detail tomorrow ^^;

Goodnight!

Poll of sorts!

As you could see in the last post, I moved a whole structure to the right part of the map.

In it's stead, I put a new structure, to which I have a question! Lookit:

^{Early prototype ^^;}

Here's the question: 

If you saw a building like that with the tall blue torches in front:

a) Would you assume it requires a blue key?

b) Would you think it's scenery / scene dressing?

c) Would you guess it might help you get to the blue key?

Trying hard not to give pointers  to my intentions here, because I want your honest opinions / thoughts / impressions / thesaurus.

Thanks!

Definitely b), unless that kind of key signalling was present throughout the whole episode

as for me, i never see torches as key indicators. there are so much torches around various maps that i just stopped paying attention. "just another decoration", that's it. may have some aestetic meaning, but nothing else.

p.s.: had to unblock that image site just to see images here. let's hope it won't start hating Tor again. ;-)

Agree with @Horus , if you want to have that kind of key signaling, it's better to introduce that to the player in an earlier map in a super obvious way so he knows this is going to be something recurrent in the mapset.

6 hours ago, ketmar said:

had to unblock that image site just to see images here

Apologies! I should've checked beforehand that I use a privacy-friendly provider. I was just kind of "desperate" at the time, wanting to make sure I could continue to use images in this forum topic of mutating proportions xD

I hope you found the images to be worth your effort ^^;

6 hours ago, Deadwing said:

Agree with @Horus , if you want to have that kind of key signaling, it's better to introduce that to the player in an earlier map in a super obvious way so he knows this is going to be something recurrent in the mapset.

Agree with all of you, @Horus, @Deadwing and @ketmar.

Actually, the blue torches are really just scene dressing, I just thought they looked nice in front of that building. Also, the switch inside that building kind of relates to the path to the Blue Key in a way but not in a way that's necessary to indicate or hint at. 

Actually the "stone face" (GSTSATYR) is much more of an indicator of what happens in that building :)

In the belly of the beast

This is a screenshot from the (totally unnecessary) addition to the level's rightmost part (the bit that said "secret?" on it)

^{Red and brown and metal, oh my!}

I mainly added it because I wanted to add a nod to the "red room" in which you used to get the Blue Key (in the 1995 version).. and I like where it is going. Of course I don't like that it's eating into the projected finishing time but.. I deem it necessary xD

Here's the overview:

^{Everything the light touc~ ..err.. Everything that's not highlighted or marked in any way is "done", too, btw.}

And now I am going to go to bed because I am trying hard to adhere to my own selfcare rules of not going to bed (too far) after midnight xD

I bid thee a good night!

Just one quick aside..

I think I accidentially created a club.

https://streamable.com/yuey9j

He even moves to the beat.

I really need to go to bed ^^;

On 6/16/2020 at 11:25 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

Apologies! I should've checked beforehand that I use a privacy-friendly provider.

nonono, sorry, i didn't meant that you did anything wrong! the picture hosting is ok (and i don't care much about "internet privacy" anyway; but Tor is there to quickly reject sites whose owners thinks the same ;-). i blocked that image site mostly because it was used for image spam at some forum i used to read.

On 6/16/2020 at 11:25 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

I hope you found the images to be worth your effort ^^;

yeah! what i really mean is "i SO LOVE the images you're posting here that i will happily go an extra mile to see them!" ;-) no, really.

On 6/16/2020 at 11:26 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

Actually the "stone face" (GSTSATYR) is much more of an indicator of what happens in that building :)

yeah, the face made me nervous. it also looks almost like "WANTED!" poster from western movie. ;-)

Snakes. Why'd it have to be snakes?

This is the last room to connect the "WIP" stuff on the right of the map from the last update!

^{This is not the direction you come from x3}

Only 2 or 3 switches left (for me to put in), then you'll be right where you never wanted to be.

Here.

^{Hint: There's more than one switch in here}

Everything else here is done, whch only leaves the "handholding" and the "brushing" from the previous map view thingie.

But it's midnight so I'm off~

Bye for now!

Just a quick thought after re-reading my own comments:

^{(this sounds so egocentric >_>)}

I really like the direction this level (E1M4) has taken. Granted, I exceeded the originally presumed timeframe (again ^^) because I ended up changing & fixing more than I thought I'd have to.. and probably more than I actually had to. But the way it stands now, I can't wait to proof-play / test-play the whole thing start to finish.

And of course the testing will lead to more balancing work.. but I have a good feeling about this.

However, I still have to work for another hour or so before I can get to "DOOMing".. I'll be back!

All this energy. Where does he get it from?

Some demonic source, probably.

So yes. I finished the bit with the "2 or 3 switches" that were still missing (such a wild understatement ^^) and I think I managed to get a few neat surprises in. Here's an updated look at that room (without things and without any flipped switches, because spoilers):

^{I think I'm getting better at detailing x3}

I'm really rather satisfied with this room's progression and flow. And layout. And lighting. And just about everything. Which is a rare thing for me xD

Here's the updated overview:

^DONE!

There's an environmental connection between the freshly "done" area and the exit in the lower right.. but since all that new stuff is a secret bonus room.. well.. it's a hint that not everyone will encounter.

Because of that, there's still some stuff to do for me to ease the player into the.. exit experience ^^;

Also, I tested the lower left area again and it's not that bad, actually. 

I think I'll get all of it done over the weekend xD

But now I need to get some sleep done.

Bye for now!

So my HDD with all my Doom (and everything gaming tbh) died

So I took a break from the internet

I come back and this is fookin O U T

Naisu! 'grats man

13 hours ago, tam said:

So my HDD with all my Doom (and everything gaming tbh) died

Oh.. no. D:

I absolutely feel your pain.. that's terrible.. I'm really sorry to hear that. Back in the day when my PC died I lost a lot of other stuff aside from my Doom levels, too. Like 80-ish hours worth of Mass Effect 1 & 2 progress, for example.. so.. I think I can relate to a certain degree. And I definitely wouldn't wish that on anyone. Least of all you.

It's really good to see you around these parts again though! And at such a pivotal moment, too, with E1M4 (almost) done ^^;

I hope that Doomworld and maybe even this thread can lessen the blow a bit and get you back on track, "gaming fun" wise c:

"Good news, everyone!"

Some more work in progress, the continuation of the "started. finally." section of visually / contextually connecting that secret area to the exit section:

^{So disgusting.}

Who would need this many dead monster bodies?

14 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Who would need this many dead monster bodies?

Arch-viles clearly need them. Although since this is The Ultimate DOOM we're talking about, you do have a point.

An exit you can trust!

^{Gee.. I don't know.}

Last update for the day

I know it's only 12:50am on a weekend so I can sleep in and all.. but I worked on this several hours today (even though no one asked me to xD) ..and I know I'll have better success tomorrow. That's not to say that I didn't make good progress today, though! 

This is the final relevant room (yes, the exit from the last post is a ruse.. old trick but it's fun! xD)

^{No it's not done yet. But I'm done.}

It's still very much in progress. It will likely not look much like this when it's done.

But! This is pretty much exactly where you stand when you realize that that switch wasn't the exit. You'll have to think quickly and possibly seek cover, which was a bit hard to grasp in the old version of the level. Which wasn't nice of me. So to fix that, I am adding some cues. Notice the (slightly) lit up area on the right with the two ceiling lamps? That's my first step of the before-mentioned "handholding", to help the player realize where to go. 

I'll very likely play around with different light levels, too.. but that's not until I am more satisfied with the overall shape of this area.

The path leading up to this is done now, though. Which is neat.

Here's the overview. Notice the new "done!" info:

^{The "not done" arrow is pointing at the area that's.. uh.. not done xD}

As you can see, I'll still have to update the area on the left. Which will be easy but not very creative, so I am saving it for last ^^;

More info tomorrow :)

More visual cues on what you might want to do in this area

Here's an updated look at what you might want to do when you're here. Or rather, seemingly the only agency you have in this area / setup.

There will likely be various ways to finish this room but the one that I reckon works best involves those switched on that column.

You'll have to / be able to switch a bunch of things on and off and I think I've come up with some stuff that's creative and fun to play.

But there's still a lot to do. Basically the whole left half of that screenshot is still in 1995 xD

^{Are those blocks in front.. friendly?} 

So far it feels like I made it through the murky, slow part of finding the best way to bring this level up to par. From now on it's smooth sailing.. as much as it can be while keeping an eye on the Vanilla engine limits xD

Here's the same scene in game:

^{Yeah. I know. It's dark. But you are pretty deep underground ^^;}

I might still make it a little bit brighter but for now this is what I'm working with~

More soon!

Speaking of Vanilla engine limits..

This is what happens when you run to the very back of the room and turn around (if you use ChocoRL) xD

^{It kind of looks cool. Maybe if I ask the player to just not turn around? xD}

I suppose it's time for an unplanned line-of-sight blocking obstacle back there.

Also, I just (re)realized, that two actions which I wanted the player to trigger with a button.. are only available as "walk" actions in Vanilla. I always forget xD

Time for a "fake" button where walking up to the button already triggers the action.

I will not be deterred! >_<