Why Do Pwads Almost Never Have a Story

To be clear I’m not saying that all pwads should have stories however I’m curious why so few have them if any. The other question is what would you think of a megawad with a large focus on story? (disregarding the quality of the gameplay and assuming the story isn’t terrible)

What I mean by having a greater focus in story is having significantly more than intermission screens and the text file. Example: Character interaction and more than environmental storytelling. (Not to insult environmental storytelling)

maybe im missing most pwads but all the ones i played has some kind of story even if its just a txt file

I mean having multiple characters and more than just the intermission and text file. I’ll update the starting post to reiterate.

Have you played Three's a Crowd? It's a story-driven wad where you play as three different marines, and there's certainly some good story text if I recall.

7 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

I mean having multiple characters and more than just the intermission and text file. I’ll update the starting post to reiterate.

mostly because OG Doom just wasn't built that way. 3 is a Crowd is the most recent one I can think of that wasn't more RPG based like Abysm 1 & 2. Abysm uses a lot of principles brought in from Strife that was made possible with Doom, i.e. dialogue and scripted interactions, but vanilla Doom wasn't built with dialogue options. 

2 minutes ago, NuMetalManiak said:

Have you played Three's a Crowd? It's a story-driven wad where you play as three different marines, and there's certainly some good story text if I recall.

I have not however I have heard about it and it is one reason I said almost instead of all.

It's redundant since everyone knows they can't top Deus Vult Zero's lore.

Going Down have a excelent Lore of what's mean to go down to the hell lairs.

25 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

I mean having multiple characters and more than just the intermission and text file. I’ll update the starting post to reiterate.

Because the original games didn't, and the Doom engine isn't easily set up for that kind of thing. There's no simple dialogue system or NPC support or ability to easily show any text on screen during a level (outside of advanced source ports), all of which are really needed to easily tell a story within a level.

But personally I don't think that's an issue at all, because for the most part a strong premise (rather than a story) is enough for a Doom level. The original games have essentially no story but a really strong premise, and most custom maps follow suit.

There are some custom wads that have strong stories, but they are few and far between because the assets you need to tell an effective story are relatively complex to implement, and often are the antithesis to what people want from a Doom map (few people hope for cutscenes in a Doom map for example).

Probably because most of them just go along the lines of "You awake/find yourself alone in a prison cell/at the command of your spaceship/in an unknown place with nothing but a pistol and 50 rounds. Suddenly, you hear a noise, and decide to investigate". Bah.

I recently played Perdition's Gate, one of the two megaWADs released by Wraith Corporation. It has different story text on every intermission/level-end screen, and some amount of environmental storytelling as well using custom textures and some quirky level design choices. So there was definitely effort being put into the story. However, I ended up caring much more about the action than the story for the most part.

Doom, Doom II, and both Final Doom WADs' stories were mostly just there to justify the action, and the Doom engine was built around that, so that's the model that most later PWADs followed.

was it Hadephobia that was a narrative community project mapset? Or Interception? i remember one or both of those sets being really good

my faves are the ones that have mysterious premises and you puzzle out the story based on the narrative hints in the world! I gave Sheer Poison an interesting premise (imho!) and then from there you can put yr own conclusions together

I always inject some amount of story in my maps, even if it's not always explicitly exposed during gameplay. It helps to feed the design process when you have a general idea of where, what and why, and it is also often reflected in player experience (sense of place). Since Doom is very fast and action oriented, or at least benefits from design centered around fast paced gameplay, environmental storytelling is usually the best way to convey stories without interrupting the flow, and it also gives players agency over whether they want to engage in the lore or not. Hence why some of the more tastefully implemented narratives are based around that type of "optional" storytelling.

Story isn't exactly an integral part of Doom, though some megawads ( and single map releases, episodes,etc.) do follow a loose narrative. The problem with have a narrative, is that there aren't exactly a lot of tools at your disposal (besides ACS scripting and all that other wizardry) to tell a well-crafted story. A lot of mappers give a basic narrative reasons as to why you are in that scenario in the text file, though I'm not sure if many people read the text file.

It is possible for there to be a subtle narrative by using environmental clues and giving the player enough context as to draw conclusions on what the story is. I often enjoy this more than if the story is directly told to me, giving the experience more depth. I recall Hadephobia being a megawad with a subtle narrative.

TL;DR: Having a megawad with a subtle narrative allows the player to draw their own personal conclusions as to what the narrative entails, and gives the experience more depth. I'm not saying that megawads lack depth, however. I'm simply giving my personal opinion on a making a  narrative with limited tools to tell a story.

It Only Gets Worse and Community Is Falling 3 are both pretty plot-oriented

40 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Hell Revealed sums it up nicely:

 

Beat me to it!

Assuming not much else will happen on this thread I thank you for your somewhat interesting responses.

i think its becouse in the original game the story is not too important... its also very simple tought...

Probably because it's hard to come with something really interesting, by having only 6 panels of text to write something.

GZDoom wads, in other hand, do have more possibilities to create a story, with dialogues and etc.

As for boom wads, most of it will be environment storytelling + some stuff written in the panels.

Oddly enough, every map I make I absolutely have to try and justify with a story and meaningful progression/scenes throughout the map that tell people odd little details, I also go out of my way to actually include a story in the readme file's description in the same over the top 90's pwad style (If you want stories in your wads just read some of the textfiles for 90's maps, they are wonderful).

I feel like it is either necessary for me to do or something I really want to do with maps I make, I do enjoy making campy story telling like this one and I feel like it makes the whole experience more fun.

Well, it’s certainly not a requirement by any means but having a story in a PWAD (especially megawads) actually tends to be more the rule rather than the exception.

Hell, some of the notable examples include Eviternity, Revolution!, Hellbound, Hadephobia, and Demonfear.

Though if you’re looking for a pretty notable exception (which is spoilered due to… well, spoilers for Sunlust):

Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important.

- John Carmack

That was the philosophy of the id team after Tom Hall was unceremoniously shown the door. Personally, I wouldn't go so far, since Ultimate Doom was better off due to Hall's residual influence. John Carmack's dismissal of narrative is a likely contributor to Doom 2's relative lack of context, which I feel weakens the game significantly.

While a sense of narrative is important to me with regards to Doom wads, I am vehemently opposed to any form of non-environmental storytelling outside of intermission screens or the text file, mainly because a game about zipping around at super-human speeds and killing demons is not exactly fertile ground for a traditional narrative.

I don't think Doom has anything to gain from dialog or narration or anything of the sort, and a great deal to lose in terms of brevity. This goes beyond the engine limitations of the original, and extends to modern Doom with its idiotic "'lore'" and "'story'". Why the fuck would anyone want a cutscene in a Doom game? It was bad enough in Call of Duty, which, in the first few entries at least had the decency to mostly let the story play out 'in-game' as it were.

I revel in the sheer abstraction of older titles like Doom, unconcerned with pointless overheads like traditional storytelling, and I think most mappers would agree, hence the lack of such wads even in advanced source ports.

Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important.

- John Carmack

  Off topic, but a lot of modern FPS's seem intent on forcing a plot down the players throat, regardless of whether it intrudes on the gameplay or takes control away from the player. Story in modern FPS games often seem to be an afterthought, merely put in to give context as to why the player is in that situation. I don't agree with Carmack, in that story isn't an important aspect in a a game, but having a minimalist narrative could serve a game well. It makes the plot feel less forced or shoehorned in.

@Omniarch, JC said this to Tom Hall's face, at least according to Civvie...

35 minutes ago, Silhou3tte said:

Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important.

- John Carmack

 

  Off topic, but a lot of modern FPS's seem intent on forcing a plot down the players throat, regardless of whether it intrudes on the gameplay or takes control away from the player. Story in modern FPS games often seem to be an afterthought, merely put in to give context as to why the player is in that situation. I don't agree with Carmack, in that story isn't an important aspect in a a game, but having a minimalist narrative could serve a game well. It makes the plot feel less forced or shoehorned in.

 

@Omniarch, JC said this to Tom Hall's face, at least according to Civvie...

 

 

i think the game should have a narrative that fits the gameplay

think about how well did bioshock or spec ops used its medium for its own favor

its why i like the fist custscene with the dark lord so much in tag2 he acted just like we do on gameplay shooting instantely when he appears

i hate ludo narrative dissonance and i like when games takes steps to avoid it (though it isnt high on my list of priorities for a game)

Once again I thank you for your insight.

Did anyone actually pay $500 for Hell Revealed's story though? :P

I think you guys would enjoy Earthless's story. The full saga is contained within the OP. Happy reading!