The Dean of Doom series (companion thread)

2 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

 

Okay, these are fair things to disagree on, but I wouldn't really call them "biased" as @Bauul pointed out, the word means to suggest an agenda or ulterior motive behind the work. Given English is indeed your second language, we can of course excuse you for simply using the wrong word. Don't worry though, lad, it's something that even English speakers fuck up a lot from what I've seen hence my original annoyance found in my other post. ;^) :^P

 

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bias

Quote

a particular tendency, trend, inclination, feeling, or opinion, especially one that is preconceived or unreasoned: illegal bias against older job applicants;the magazine’s bias toward art rather than photography;our strong bias in favor of the idea.

Doesn't say anything about an agenda or ulterior motive.

The truth is that everyone is biased. If we weren't, then we wouldn't have any preferences for anything over anything else.

3 minutes ago, Captain POLAND said:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bias

 

Doesn't say anything about an agenda or ulterior motive.

 

The truth is that everyone is biased. If we weren't, then we wouldn't have any preferences for anything over anything else.

Most assuredly, mate. I was more going be the general vernacular when it comes to how people tend to use "bias" when it comes to arguments. On the broader side, "bias" does indeed just mean ones own personal view in general if you want to boil it down. With that in mind, any review will be inherently biased to some degree because our own personal interpretations of the world is how we communicate. It's why we have reviews and opinion pieces in the first place: We want to know what people think, feel and interpret from things as that is the nature of how we trade ideas. One thing that really annoys me are morons who complain about a review they didn't like being "biased" and not being "objective" enough, which is a ridiculous notion. An "objective" review would be inherently worthless to anyone who actually wants to know what someone THINKS about whatever it is they're reviewing. 

6 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

especially one that is preconceived or unreasoned

When someone makes an accusation of bias, this is generally what they are referring to, and how most people would read such an accusation.  This isn't the same thing as personal preferences - in modern vernacular an accusation of bias is generally is taken to mean someone favors, or conversely dismisses, something without giving it due chance to succeed or fail on its own merit.  Often this goes hand in hand with having an agenda or ulterior motive, whether conscious or otherwise.  

As an example, you saying "I rate Map X poorly" because the author once said something you disagree with and you decided therefore the map would be bad before even playing it is being biased.  Saying "I rate Map X poorly" because you played it with an open mind and still didn't like it, irrespective of your personal feelings for the author, is just informed personal opinion.  It could still be an unpopular opinion, but it doesn't make it biased.

ITT: learning the difference between bias and preferences! Yay!

I’m super biased against slaughtermaps, by the way. It’s not that I have a natural preference for more relaxed Dooming - some shadowy figure actually paid me off to not like them!

..I will say though, the dictionary.com definition of bias is oddly synonymous with “preference”, however I have literally never seen it used that way. The colloquial definition implies that the distinction between the two IS very much reasoned, and it’s usually in the pursuit of personal gain. People get paid off or coerced to present a bias. No one gets paid off to “present a preference”..

Again, this is all colloquial usage I’m talking about here. I genuinely just learned the dictionary definition of “bias” only barely jives with the way people use it day-to-day.. Weird!

Edit: The Cambridge dictionary gives the real definition, as the word is used in everyday English:

Quote

the action of supporting or opposing a particular person or thing in an unfair way, because of allowing personal opinions to influence your judgment

I guess “unfairness” is in the eye of the beholder, but either way, this is why people took umbrage with the use of the word “bias”. There’s an inherent negative connotation that is not present with the word “preference”.

A reviewer is naturally going to like some things and not like others. It only becomes a bias when there’s shadiness afoot (for example, when I paid MtPain $600,000 USD for the favourable Rowdy Rudy review)

31 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

A reviewer is naturally going to like some things and not like others. It only becomes a bias when there’s shadiness afoot (for example, when I paid MtPain $600,000 USD for the favourable Rowdy Rudy review)

I also believe it enters the realm of bias when talking about objective reality (which of course, MtPain specifically does not.) If I don’t like slaughtermaps, and I say all slaughtermaps are bad, I’m speaking from a biased position - even though there’s no direct incentive or gain there. My preference for other maps has resulted in a biased view of quality.

It’s definitely a bit of a gray area, but I think that’s a major difference.

So if you have a preference for something it’s not a bias until you voice it, is that the distinction?

Or rather, is it when I use my preferences to make an assumption that it becomes a bias? (I did not like slaughtermap 1, therefore I doubt I’ll like others. That does sound like a bias, as I write it out. (and it’s not even true FWIW I’m just using it as an example lol))

Where does objectivity / reality come into play?

I’m sorry if this is a slight derail by the way - but since MtPain is a reviewer, and we’re trying to get to the bottom of what makes something a bias or a mere preference, it IS pretty related..

I've asked this before, but I'm really not even sure where "normal" maps end and slaughter maps begin. 

And making a difficult fight for a modern Doom enthusiast would probably mean either restricting movement heavily, restricting guns/ammo, or putting in many monsters.

50 minutes ago, Kute said:

I'm really not even sure where "normal" maps end and slaughter maps begin. 

 

 

I've always liked the approach of "when you start counting monsters by area instead of by number."

16 hours ago, Thelokk said:

 

He *seems to me* like he has a heavy lean toward maps with a very traditional, 'action trumps all' gameplay, which I only partially agree with as I privilege architecture and atmosphere. Might very well just be my perception though. 

 

 

It depends. No, he doesn't like exploring mazes and teasing sectors out, otherwise, he'd have surely ranked CATEOE much higher and probably done Eternal Doom by now. I think he can praise any sufficiently atmospheric map to the heavens, but only if it's not particularly cryptic in progression, in which case, I'd have to completely agree. 

I didn’t see Good Morning Phobos coming, although he praises it, I was expecting this to be a season 3 video!

After watching 

- It takes brass balls to sell real estate

- Damn that A+ was unexpected

- The Cursed Assylum

The man is on a roll! I haven't played this one yet actually but it seems very up my alley, will definitely have to try it out.

Ah man, what a great wad, i remember playing a lot complex Clusterfuck when Dusted pandemonic was still working on it, Glad to see it being covered.

Mans been knocking em out lately

checked out the video a bit, the professor is still strong as ever with his writing and gameplay

Anyone here who likes 3ha map29? I found it pretty fun actually.

The map itself is pretty short, and there are definitely not as many arch-viles as you think there would be. Probably not that difficult too since there are plenty of space/cover for you to move around and avoid arch-viles' attacks.

Kinda funny that darkwave decided to pull his punches in speed of doom, I mean, Twilight Massacre could probably benefit from it a lot if darkwave decides to add more threatening fights/arch-viles. Or perhaps just limit the amount of cells and allow more use of RL/PG. I think 3ha map29 did exactly what I wish Twilight Massacre does.

If I want to do some nitpicking, turret monsters are a absolute chore to deal with after all the fun is over. I don't think it's needed to place a freaking cyberdemon turret that won't be lowered/released anyway. Also very unpleasant to hide to much-needed health inside those small rooms. I just can't bother to check every single one of them to find 2 stimpacks that are hidden in bunch of bullets/shells that I don't need.

hmm, like a lot of open chaotic maps, the safest survival route is to mix in speedrun-style play that pretty much always works (even though it looks dangerous). do something like in the vid below and you can use the monster pathing to your advantage and get a whole bunch of the bottom-level archviles at the bottleneck. then the map is pretty much won, with a lot of megaspheres, cell caches, and being able to retreat to low ground against the archviles upstairs whenever you need to. you can take it safer but the megas also let you divebomb through crowds with BFG shots (as long as there aren't too many viles in them). 

aesthetics are solid. you get a real good feeling of being in this limitless vast dark cave that feels a lot more complex than it actually is. this actually reminds me of the sort of darkwave map that would go on to inspire some of the bigger, later parts of Resurgence, all blocks of monsters, rectangular composite layouts and arenas, tall ceilings and dimness, and lots of viles. as a map it has some miscues that would probably be fixed if it were not a speedmap (the turret bosses are indeed kind of a chore). but overall I like it.

I played it for the first time last week. I play continuous, so the beginning was probably not as frustrating for me as it is for others. For the most part, i thought the level was fine. Much smaller than I thought. Much less health than I would have liked. I felt there was barely enough big health pickups and barely any medikits and below. I was low health for a lot of it, but it could be I just suck. I kinda felt the ambushes were just a "monsters teleporting in everywhere" approach. It almost seemed haphazardly thrown together when it was like that. Finding the archies quickly is the big challenge, as those need to go, stat. I wish there was a little more cover to hide from Archie blasts. I much prefered the fights that happen when a wall is lowered revealing the horde, but a lot of those also came with a random assortment of things teleporting around. I didnt mind the boss turrets too much, but i didnt get any use from the Mastermind. Visually, it looks very nice. Nice texture use. 

Overall, I didn't hate it, but I'm not itching to replay it any time soon. It was fine. Definitely tough, but I've save scummed through worse. My only real gripes are more health, more cover for dodging archies, and maybe a more focused type of teleport ambush that doesn't seem random. I guess I'd give it somewhere around a B-

To me, the most important thing about MtPain is not his ability/lack of ability as an objective reviewer.

It's his writing. And he is a fantastic writer.

@antares031 Someone really loved your wad :)

EDIT: Dang I got ninja'ed

MBF21 megawad when.

24 minutes ago, Nefelibeta said:

MBF21 megawad when.

That's a good question, but I'm sorry to say that I can't give you an answer right now.

This is the WAD I've waited the longest for to be featured on here. Ever since I found out early on in DoD's run that he played it, I've been excited to see this. One of my favorite WADs. As soon as I get time, I'm watching it!

Makes me wonder how would MountPain do the DTWID?

would it be done by Pain(in the arse) student?

@antares031 Your wad looks great! I might check it out in the future.

Fantastic episode.....was wondering when Dean would cover the sheer number of single-level wads out there. Something tells me I wont have to wait long for Deus Vult :)

Some notes:

Apparently I've never played Grove so I'm gonna start on that right away. 

Disturbia however......yeesh. Maybe not any time soon.

Also I had never heard of Water Spirit before this episode, but it looks right up my alley.....gonna play it right after Grove :>

Finally, I'm so so so glad The Given got so much love here.....as someone who generally despises puzzle levels, that map is an absolute masterwork. 

Wonder what the season finale is gonna be, personally I'm rooting for doom 64 since that's my favorite of the official doom games and I'm very curious what someone who's more experienced in doom things (I personally think it's easily the best doom wad I've seen or played from the 90's but that's up for debate)