Doom Zero - launch (and celebrating 25 years of Doom II)

18 minutes ago, Thelokk said:

 

Wad is bland =/= wad is 'a parasite leeching off', 'worse than the worst D2 has to offer' etc etc. But I said my piece and now take my leave, as apparently we all have very different thresholds of what 'polite', 'respectful' and 'constructive' criticism is. 

Literally expressive wording to better illustrate my point to other people.Can you blame me? I just wrote what if felt,that's it. Again,if you can't take negative opinions go figure how to do that,i had my maps told to be subpar too,i don't really think the creator cares at this point. And also, i never said my criticism was "constructive",just remarks from playing the WAD.

And get off that moral high horse yer' riding pal.

54 minutes ago, Shibainumaster said:

Literally expressive wording to better illustrate my point to other people.Can you blame me? I just wrote what if felt,that's it. Again,if you can't take negative opinions go figure how to do that,i had my maps told to be subpar too,i don't really think the creator cares at this point. And also, i never said my criticism was "constructive",just remarks from playing the WAD.

And get off that moral high horse yer' riding pal.

The people responding to you are also giving their opinions in good faith. If you don't want to be called out for being an asshole, then don't be an asshole.

31 minutes ago, Not Jabba said:

 

The people responding to you are also giving their opinions in good faith. If you don't want to be called out for being an asshole, then don't be an asshole.

I was'nt an asshole,i encouraged the first person to disagree to voice their opinion,i was interested.I wasn't so positive when i got told that my "angsty" tone and opinion overall is a thing that this forum doesn't need.If anyone,it should be Thelokk who is the asshole.

The first guy who replied was @Faceman2000 by the way, i wanted to hear from him.

Sure. First off, as has been pointed out before, saying these maps look worse "than the worse Doom II has to offer" is just disingenuous. He does go for a more classic level of detailing - which is something I personally enjoy - but at the same time, he's clearly put a lot of time and thought into the detailing and texturing. He actually discusses this a bit in his video going through an earlier version of one of the Doom Zero maps. He's limited himself to mostly vanilla texturing yet he uses them in creative and interesting ways. The Alpha Soul fills a previously empty niche in the enemy roster and is the right balance of being a threat without being too powerful for the role it fills. The focus on puzzles in the level design is really fun and interesting - I hadn't played a level set before quite like this one. The combat is a natural evolution of Doom II's with classic style enemy placement but the combat is a step above Doom II's in difficulty and a step below Plutonia's. Feels like a very natural place for a wad of this design ethos to sit. It has the best Icon of Sin fight I've ever played. The way he uses visual cues to convey information - the Satyr switches affecting things with the Satyr on them, or the pentagrams indicating a teleport spot, etc. - was very clever and a really nice way of keeping the player informed. The other monster and weapon changes I could give or take but the desginer seems to feel quite passionately about them so hey, more power to him. I'm glad he was able to make something he was happy with there. Overall I found it to be a very creative and enjoyable mapset.

Now, obviously, somewhere in there Shibainumasters tastes and my tastes diverge.

15 hours ago, Faceman2000 said:

Sure. First off, as has been pointed out before, saying these maps look worse "than the worse Doom II has to offer" is just disingenuous. He does go for a more classic level of detailing - which is something I personally enjoy - but at the same time, he's clearly put a lot of time and thought into the detailing and texturing. He actually discusses this a bit in his video going through an earlier version of one of the Doom Zero maps. He's limited himself to mostly vanilla texturing yet he uses them in creative and interesting ways. The Alpha Soul fills a previously empty niche in the enemy roster and is the right balance of being a threat without being too powerful for the role it fills. The focus on puzzles in the level design is really fun and interesting - I hadn't played a level set before quite like this one. The combat is a natural evolution of Doom II's with classic style enemy placement but the combat is a step above Doom II's in difficulty and a step below Plutonia's. Feels like a very natural place for a wad of this design ethos to sit. It has the best Icon of Sin fight I've ever played. The way he uses visual cues to convey information - the Satyr switches affecting things with the Satyr on them, or the pentagrams indicating a teleport spot, etc. - was very clever and a really nice way of keeping the player informed. The other monster and weapon changes I could give or take but the desginer seems to feel quite passionately about them so hey, more power to him. I'm glad he was able to make something he was happy with there. Overall I found it to be a very creative and enjoyable mapset.

 

Now, obviously, somewhere in there Shibainumasters tastes and my tastes diverge.

Damn finally that's it,the opinion of the person who i disagreed with.Now i know more things people liked about the WAD,and can understand it's charm better.

Cleaned up the extended meta/derail stuff about who is Really a bigger asshole. Keep this thread about Doom Zero.  

On 4/27/2022 at 4:19 PM, Shibainumaster said:

I played through this. It feels like a parasite leeching off of my ability to remember, compare and feel nostalgia...everything else after map 11 looks worse than the worst Doom 2 had to offer...Additional monster sounds either do not fit or sound bad. MAP 31 is just a big reference and is painful to look at. Also, Romero's level design fetishistic disorder...if you're telling me that titanic effort went into this then you're telling falsehoods. You do know there's lots of stuff out there that is a 32 level megawad, full-on vanilla and also looks good? looking at the words: "Build time:4 years", you kinda expect not "that".

Ok, a simple "I did not like it" would've sufficed.
 

On 4/30/2022 at 1:29 AM, DASI-I said:

Ok, a simple "I did not like it" would've sufficed.
 

Dude i know this dialogue's transcript,don't try to tell me i said nothing of value or that i'am stupid.

Even your reaction image is a reference! Just like MAP31 it barely fits for it's purpose!

On 5/3/2022 at 3:49 PM, Shibainumaster said:

Dude i know this dialogue's transcript,don't try to tell me i said nothing of value or that i'am stupid.

Even your reaction image is a reference! Just like MAP31 it barely fits for it's purpose!

Woah, I did not expect that reaction. Dude, calm down. I never said you were stupid or your feedback has nothing of value, especially since the guy in the meme (that I'm comparing you to) is supposed to be smarter and more knowledgeable than Sandler's character. Geez!
I have patched Doom Zero over a dozen times simply because I can take criticism. Version 3.0's existence is purely the result of many people pointing out flaws with versions 1.1 all the way through to 2.9.

I'm sorry if I offended you but that was not the intention. And maybe that wasn't yours either. But just exactly what reaction did you expect after calling someone's passion project a "parasite"?

12 minutes ago, DASI-I said:

Woah, I did not expect that reaction. Dude, calm down. I never said you were stupid or your feedback has nothing of value, especially since the guy in the meme (that I'm comparing you to) is supposed to be smarter and more knowledgeable than Sandler's character. Geez!
I have patched Doom Zero over a dozen times simply because I can take criticism. Version 3.0's existence is purely the result of many people pointing out flaws with versions 1.1 all the way through to 2.9.

I'm sorry if I offended you but that was not the intention. And maybe that wasn't yours either. But just exactly what reaction did you expect after calling someone's passion project a "parasite"?

Took you long enough,i didn't expect anything specific,those were just my actual feelings that i got after the playthrough.Really didn't want to sugar-coat it. You can take criticism,but my gripes weren't really with you personally but with the WAD. itself,as i pointed out-there were good maps,just not most of them. The rating on a scale in my post was included specifically to conclude ona more practical note,rather an emotional one. And yeah about the parasite thing,you'r WAD. contains a large lot o references,to the point of redundency,it's something that's not a horrible crime,but spoils the impression.

I thought it was quite good

Just finished yet another playthrough, still as good as I remembered it to be.This megawad literally changed my Doom life, no exaggeration. It's as if someone managed to gather in one single set of maps all the things I wanted a modern, non-mainstream doom experience to be. Stellar stuff.

Looks like this ended up not making it to /idgames after all:

Quote

Sat Apr 16 18:40:21 EDT 2022 Rejected DoomZero.zip because: need e-mail address in text file

[Redacted]  :p

Just curious - why does the official id version in Unity Doom have a re-arranged soundtrack compared to the original .WAD? This WAD uses vanilla Doom 1 and 2 soundtracks apart from MAP01 so I can't imagine it was due to licencing or anything like that.

As promised, I'm starting the walkthrough. Today are presented:

Map01: High-Rise Roof
Map02: Toxic Tower
Map03: Marble Zone

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I chose the red key, having collected everything I could in advance - so that I didn't have to burn myself in the nukage. If I understood everything correctly then if the yellow key is selected, collecting all items at the level is impossible without burning.

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Today are presented:

Map04: Triple Town
Map05: The Pits
Map06: Echo Halls

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This time, after crossing the line the secret closes much faster, so the fact that I managed to visit it from the first time can be considered a great luck!

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Wad continues to surprise... This time, we will also need to run across the bridge before it rises too high. If we are late, we will run into the grate dividing it in half and will have to lower it and then run again. I've rarely seen this!

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The map is original in itself plus the choice of one of the three keys to this one directly affects how the level will be completed but it's a bit of a pity that our choice in the end may be devalued. On the other hand, I can't help but be glad that the author gives me the opportunity to go back and still collect all the weapons, items and ammunition.

I played this on Xbox in 2021 and had a good time, some very creative mapping ideas I've never seen before while using almost entirely stock assets.

Today are presented:

Map07: Claustrophobia

Map08: Module Base

Map09: Ancient Archives

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Today are presented: 

Map10: Leap Gates

Map11: Too Close to Home

Map12: Underland

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Today are presented:

Map13: Tease

Map14: Crust

Map15: Peak Facility

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Today secret maps are presented:

Map31: Meat

Map32: Dark Roof

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Today are presented:

Map16: Natural Supply

Map17: The Testing Labs

Map18: Atom Transporter

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Today are presented:

Map19: Quantum Processing

Map20: Familiar Face

Map21: Starbourn

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Doom Zero is one of the few megawads I have played (along with Anomaly Report and 25 Years on Earth), which contains more spiderdemons than cyberdemons (after this map, the score is already 5:1). 

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The first meeting with the demon witch ended with our escape from the battlefield. It wasn't shameful, but it was tactical - our hero once again has to clean up the source of the invasion of monsters including this witch.

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Today are presented:

Map22: The Cracks
Map23: Atmos Caves

Map24: Booster Hub

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Today are presented:

Map25: Abandoned Compound

Map26: Fortification

Map27: The Junction

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Today are presented three last maps:

Map28: Suspension

Map29: The Rematch

Map30: The Sarcophagus

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This megawad was very interesting and it served as a quite unusual experience for me!

Interesting statistics are coming out. Alpha souls only appear on the last ten maps (with the exception of the final one) but outnumber most of the other monsters we've been fighting since the beginning of the game! So if someone suddenly got bored with them, then it's not surprising: even imps, which are traditionally the most frequently encountered monsters, live on the last levels in the amount of only 208!

Is an idgames upload still on the cards? Feels like forever since it was supposed to be uploaded there. Apologies for the necro.

This is one of my all time favorite wads, and of all the countless wads that modify the weapons to any extent this one is by far my favorite.  The weapons look, feel, and sound amazing.  Would it be any trouble for you to share a wad that has just the weapons in it?  I would love to use these weapons in any other wad I play.