Raven IWADs (and Strife I guess) chat

Strife community project when?

59 minutes ago, TheHambourgeois said:

Strife community project when?

I was making a thing on my own that was basically Sprite Fixing Project but Strife, I just fixed some obvious sprite offsets issues before I realized I have no idea how to determine what's a bug or not because Strife enemies move a lot and The firing frames were just a mess in the human enemies

On 10/19/2022 at 12:17 PM, TheHambourgeois said:

One of the problems with Heretic, that I have been thinking of since I have been mapping for it, is the lack of a bullet pattern diversity in non-boss monsters.

 

...

 

Whenever I get more free time I may whip up some variants of stock monsters just to try to address this a bit, if there's any interest.

Had some time to think about this on account of doing manual labor and being stuck in my head all day. If I had the time to do my own balance/gameplay mod I would probably make the following just to round out the roster:

• Golden Weredragon: As Weredragon, palette swapped into the gold ramp, shoot a spread of 5 projectiles instead of normal attack.
• Ophidian Lord: Similar to above, as a normal Ophidian but I'd probably recolor the armor to something fancier. Similar feel to the Mancubus pattern, shooting a spread of 3, then 2, then 3, all of the stronger orange ball the regular Ophidians shoot at the end of their stream.
• Cryogolem: Palette swap the nitrogolem to blue, and basically give it the Hexen Wendigo attack using the iron lich ice balls. Also a ghost version.
• Spectral Lich: Translucent, possibly black colored Iron Lich. God willing, I'd fuck with the attacks to give it a spread of ice shards a la the mage's second weapon in Hexen and more or less a projectile version of the volcano fireball. Instead of the stupid whirlwind it raises the dead like an archvile.
  • In that light, give everything a Raise state.
• Undead Warpriest: Blatantly steal Hexen's Reiver sprites, perhaps mixing the head with the undead warrior if it feels too scary for Heretic's tone. Big, charge up beam attack like Quake 1 Shambler. Variant that revives dead like an Archvile.

This would still leave the Nitrogolem as the sole champion of the revenant/vore homing missile archetype. Anyway, whenever I finish Condemned I'll probably be learning some zscript. I don't feel particularly possessive of these ideas if anyone is inspired to take a whack at them before I get to it.

8 hours ago, TheHambourgeois said:

 

Had some time to think about this on account of doing manual labor and being stuck in my head all day. If I had the time to do my own balance/gameplay mod I would probably make the following just to round out the roster:

• Golden Weredragon: As Weredragon, palette swapped into the gold ramp, shoot a spread of 5 projectiles instead of normal attack.
• Ophidian Lord: Similar to above, as a normal Ophidian but I'd probably recolor the armor to something fancier. Similar feel to the Mancubus pattern, shooting a spread of 3, then 2, then 3, all of the stronger orange ball the regular Ophidians shoot at the end of their stream.
• Cryogolem: Palette swap the nitrogolem to blue, and basically give it the Hexen Wendigo attack using the iron lich ice balls. Also a ghost version.
• Spectral Lich: Translucent, possibly black colored Iron Lich. God willing, I'd fuck with the attacks to give it a spread of ice shards a la the mage's second weapon in Hexen and more or less a projectile version of the volcano fireball. Instead of the stupid whirlwind it raises the dead like an archvile.
  • In that light, give everything a Raise state.
• Undead Warpriest: Blatantly steal Hexen's Reiver sprites, perhaps mixing the head with the undead warrior if it feels too scary for Heretic's tone. Big, charge up beam attack like Quake 1 Shambler. Variant that revives dead like an Archvile.

This would still leave the Nitrogolem as the sole champion of the revenant/vore homing missile archetype. Anyway, whenever I finish Condemned I'll probably be learning some zscript. I don't feel particularly possessive of these ideas if anyone is inspired to take a whack at them before I get to it.

I love these ideas, especially the Ophidian varient and the necro-lich, but these all have potential!

If you did make a Heretic game-play mod I'd also suggest making improvements to all of the original beastiary as well. "Black plague..." makes all enemies and their projectiles *about* twice as fast. IMO this was done to make them nearly un-dodgeable. It'd be great if all original enemies and projectiles were instead 25% faster to make Heretic feel more modern and competitive (like doom). I'd also shave 20% of the health off of the entire beastiary, and 50% off the Maulotaur to remove his grind and make him part of the usual crowd. I'd set ammo drops to be less random/more dependable (though I think it's fun that Disciples and Liches occasionally drop Tomes). Specifically all golems always drop 5 crystals, all undead always drop 3 arrows, weredrdragons always drop 5 arrows, etc. Finally, make both gargoyles deal 3x more attack damage so they are threatening instead of pesky.

I played around making a Heretic map a year or so ago - I really enjoyed it actually. Simpler in that there are less textures etc., but quite challenging to make it 'Heretic-y' rather than Doom-y.

Must admit, I did play Heretic a lot more than Hexen - Never really got into it as much, despite being technically better. I've got Strife somewhere - should probably revisit that given how may comments about how good it is I have seen.

13 minutes ago, smeghammer said:

I played around making a Heretic map a year or so ago - I really enjoyed it actually. Simpler in that there are less textures etc., but quite challenging to make it 'Heretic-y' rather than Doom-y.

 

Must admit, I did play Heretic a lot more than Hexen - Never really got into it as much, despite being technically better. I've got Strife somewhere - should probably revisit that given how may comments about how good it is I have seen.

I mentioned it in the first post that I think Hexen has some kind of very specific game design flaws that kind of get in its way. I think if you were careful about it you could make a good mapset for it. I think the biggest problem in terms of people making wads for it is the fact that the slow progression is basically just baked into the game. I think you could implement the hubs better than multi-level switch hunts as well.

On the topic of Heretic enemies, if I had the time and motivation, I think maybe I'd do some kind of "Serpent Rider Remnants" enemy reskins, stuff like Iron Liches being notably rusty, sabreclaws being made of metal patchwork, undead warriors lacking some limbs (Kinda like they've been resurrected on and on after falling in battle), stuff like that to make it seem like what's left of D'Sparil's army is just barely holding on.

On 9/29/2022 at 7:14 AM, LadyMistDragon said:

Better question is, why isn't anyone making STRIFE level sets? Is story really that hated? I could always write the dialogue if someone wants to do a project or whatever.

IIRC Strife NPCs behaved differently according to which maps they're encountered. Those hard-coded things makes the modding quite harder, I think. Maybe, you can turn a Strife PWAD from story-plot PWAD into a Hit-and-Run PWAD with maps that has shopkeeper is for Supply replenisher maps. Maybe, turn it as a thing where you collect gold from place you visited and spend it on shopkeepers to buy supplies.

Maybe the (excuse) plot for a Strife PWAD is: Player is a poor guy. They wanted to change his life. So they decided to raid abandoned ancient sacred places. But then, the player awakened the mighty evil so player decided to destroy the mighty evil. After some journey robbing ancient sacred places, he successfully destroyed the mighty evil.

Player started off in a quite isolated village or town, then either deal with Harris (fastest way to rich scam) or Rowan (maybe pop him out after clearing few dungeons).

Maybe another plot is just "inspired" from Elder Scroll: Daggerfall lol

On 10/21/2022 at 8:47 AM, smeghammer said:

I played around making a Heretic map a year or so ago - I really enjoyed it actually. Simpler in that there are less textures etc., but quite challenging to make it 'Heretic-y' rather than Doom-y.

 

Must admit, I did play Heretic a lot more than Hexen - Never really got into it as much, despite being technically better. I've got Strife somewhere - should probably revisit that given how may comments about how good it is I have seen.

I think the key to create an "Heretic-y" level is in how you use the artifacts provided. Whether it's having players go through a maze where the chaos device is provided at the end (to save backtracking), or maybe giving a shadowsphere as a warning for what's coming (could be in the next room or later in your level), same with wings of wrath, etc. 

On 10/21/2022 at 6:37 AM, Rykz said:

IIRC Strife NPCs behaved differently according to which maps they're encountered. Those hard-coded things makes the modding quite harder, I think. Maybe, you can turn a Strife PWAD from story-plot PWAD into a Hit-and-Run PWAD with maps that has shopkeeper is for Supply replenisher maps. Maybe, turn it as a thing where you collect gold from place you visited and spend it on shopkeepers to buy supplies.


Maybe another plot is just "inspired" from Elder Scroll: Daggerfall lol

I'm not certain you'd have to place much effort into the plot beyond "acolyte cells plotting evil things over here" and then end it with a boss. Although it depends on ambition, such as if you're making something like the still-unreleased Mothership or something that takes just over half an hour in your first playthrough.

Basically ended up making one of my proposed monster variants for Condemned, so here's some DECORATE:

ACTOR SpectralLich : Ironlich //your ednum here
{

  //$Title "Spectral Lich"
  //$Category Monsters
  +SHADOW
  +GHOST
  Renderstyle translucent
  Alpha 0.4
  Obituary "%o was devasted by a spectral lich."
  HitObituary "%o was devasted by a spectral lich."

  States
  {
  Spawn:
    LICH A 10 A_Look
    Loop
  See:
    LICH A 4 A_Chase
    Loop
  Melee: //IDK if this is good or not, whatever
    LICH A 5 A_FaceTarget
	LICH B 20 A_CustomMeleeAttack (Random(1, 8)*6, "ironlich/attack")
	Goto See
  Missile:
    LICH A 5 A_FaceTarget
	LICH A 0 A_JumpIfCloser (512, "MissileCloseDecide")
	LICH A 0 A_Jump (102, "MissileShards", "MissileGhost")
    Goto MissileFireball
  MissileCloseDecide:
    LICH A 0 A_Jump (205, "MissileShards", "MissileGhost" )
	Goto MissileFireball
  MissileShards:
//  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen2", 40)
//  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen2", 32, 0, 5)
//  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen2", 28)
//  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen2", 32, 0, -5)
    LICH B 2 //1st Wave
      {
      A_SpawnProjectile("IceShardGen1");
      A_StartSound ("ironlich/attack2");
      }
	LICH B 2 //2nd Wave
      {
      A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen2", 40, 0, 0, CMF_AIMOFFSET);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen2", 32, 0, 5);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen2", 28, 0, 0, CMF_AIMOFFSET);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen2", 32, 0, -5);
      }
	LICH B 2 //3rd Wave
      {
      A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen3", 48, 0, 0, CMF_AIMOFFSET);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen3", 32, 0, 10);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen3", 24, 0, 0, CMF_AIMOFFSET);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen3", 32, 0, -10);
      }
	LICH B 2 //4th Wave
      {
      A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen4", 56, 0, 0, CMF_AIMOFFSET); //Top Cluster
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen4", 48, 0, 5, CMF_AIMOFFSET);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen4", 48, 0, -5, CMF_AIMOFFSET);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen4", 32, 0, 15); //Lateral ends
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen4", 32, 0, -15);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen4", 20, 0, 0, CMF_AIMOFFSET); //Bottom Cluster
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen4", 24, 0, 5, CMF_AIMOFFSET);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("IceShardGen4", 24, 0, -5, CMF_AIMOFFSET);
      }
	LICH B 12
	Goto See
  MissileFireball:
    LICH B 20 
      {
      A_SpawnProjectile ("KingBall");
      A_StartSound ("ironlich/attack1");
      }
	Goto See
  MissileGhost:
    LICH B 20 
      {
      A_SpawnProjectile ("KingGhost");
      A_StartSound ("ironlich/attack2");
      }
	Goto See
  }
}

ACTOR KingBall
{
  Radius 12
  Height 6
  Speed 13
  FastSpeed 20
  Damage 1
  DamageType Fire
  Deathsound "misc/Timebomb"
  Projectile
  -ACTIVATEIMPACT
  -ACTIVATEPCROSS
  +THRUGHOST
  RenderStyle Add
  
  States
  {
  Spawn:
    VFBL AB 4 BRIGHT
    Loop
  Death:
    XPL1 A 4 BRIGHT
      {
      A_Explode;
      A_SpawnProjectile ("KingSpread", 0, 0, 0, CMF_AIMDIRECTION | CMF_TRACKOWNER, 0);
      A_SpawnProjectile ("KingSpread", 0, 0, 45, CMF_AIMDIRECTION | CMF_TRACKOWNER, 0);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("KingSpread", 0, 0, 135, CMF_AIMDIRECTION | CMF_TRACKOWNER, 0);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("KingSpread", 0, 0, 180, CMF_AIMDIRECTION | CMF_TRACKOWNER, 0);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("KingSpread", 0, 0, 225, CMF_AIMDIRECTION | CMF_TRACKOWNER, 0);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("KingSpread", 0, 0, 270, CMF_AIMDIRECTION | CMF_TRACKOWNER, 0);
	  A_SpawnProjectile ("KingSpread", 0, 0, 315, CMF_AIMDIRECTION | CMF_TRACKOWNER, 0);
      }
	XPL1 BCDEF 4 BRIGHT
	Stop
  }
}

ACTOR KingSpread
{
  Radius 12
  Height 6
  Speed 8
  Damage 3
  DamageType Fire
  Projectile
  -ACTIVATEIMPACT
  -ACTIVATEPCROSS
  RenderStyle Add
  States
  {
  Spawn:
    FX12 AB 6 Bright
    Loop
  Death:
    FX12 CDEFGH 5 Bright
    Stop
  }
}
 
ACTOR IceShardGen1
{
  Radius 12
  Height 6
  Speed 18
  Damage 2
  Projectile
  -ACTIVATEIMPACT
  -ACTIVATEPCROSS
  RenderStyle Add
  States
  {
  Spawn:
    FX05 HIJ 6 Bright
    Loop
  Death:
    FX05 DEFG 5 Bright
    Stop
  }
}

ACTOR IceShardGen2 : IceShardGen1
{
  Speed 17
}

ACTOR IceShardGen3 : IceShardGen1
{
  Speed 16
}

ACTOR IceShardGen4 : IceShardGen1
{
  Speed 15
}

ACTOR KingGhost
{
  Speed 12
  Radius 10
  Height 6
  Damage 2
  Ripsound null
  ReactionTime 30
  Projectile
  -ACTIVATEPCROSS
  -ACTIVATEIMPACT
  +RIPPER
  +SEEKERMISSILE
  RenderStyle Subtract
  Alpha 0.4
  States
  {
  Spawn:
	FX15 A 4 nodelay A_StartSound("mummy/head")
    Goto Fly+1
  Fly:
    FX15 A 4 A_Jump (24, "Shriek")
    FX15 B 4 A_SeekerMissile(20, 40)
    FX15 C 4
    FX15 B 4
      {
      A_SeekerMissile(20, 40);
      A_Countdown;
      }
    Loop
  Shriek:
    FX15 A 0 A_StartSound("mummy/head")
    Goto Fly+1
  Death:
    FX15 DEFG 5 Bright
    Stop
  }
}

It doesn't raise the dead, and no graphics variation, but it does all the other things and has a ripping seeker missile

recolor related to the above

So seemed like the general consensus was that the mage is generally underpowered in Hexen. I am thinking of making a vanilla hexen hub as my big project when I finally finish the secret level of Condemned, and I am wondering if anyone has any ideas for balancing for the mage. My impulse is to give extra artifacts and ammo, as the big issue seems to be the frost shard and the bloodscourge are weaker than the equivalents for the warrior and especially the cleric. I think giving the higher tier weapons quicker could also alleviate the issue in the mid-late progression, even though the problem would return at the very end.

Thoughts?