TNT: The Way We Remember It (RELEASE)

The timing of this release couldnt've been better for me (or worse, depending on how you feel about TNT [I quite liked it personally]), because I just beat the original Evilution for the first time last week!

And I already found a softlock:

Sourceport: Woof! 10.5.1 on complevel 4

I've done another update, everything should be okay now.

Still working my way through on DSDA Doom (-complevel 4). Another issue I encountered: MAP20 seems to make use of several Boom-only actions, such as the shot switch in the BFG secret or the S1 floor lower to highest floor switch at the top of the long staircase after the office cubicle area. Also, the BFG secret's lift seems to be one-way, trapping the player in the secret. There may be more instances like this, but I didn't play all the way through after getting stopped twice. Hopefully these are easily fixed to use vanilla actions only.

On 2/14/2023 at 9:48 PM, SMG_Man said:

 

Aloha; it's been a while since I fired up my map, so I took a look at it in UDB and puzzled over it a bit.

 

1. The two mancubi were *supposed* to get released by a trigger in the red key area (the same trigger that lowers the shelves hiding the chaingunners), but it looks like I made a mistake and actually lowered the ceiling to make a door instead of raising the floor. That's my mistake.

 

2. The door locking you in actually re-opens there once you go through the teleporter and reach the outside area, which is crucial for multiplayer/coop functionality (as another failsafe, the triggers around the coffin are repeatable so that a malicious player can't soft-lock the map by killing themself in the locked room).

...I forgot that there's no way to teleport back from the outside area though, so the door re-opening might as well not happen in single-player. I'm not sure if there was a way back in the original either, but I can understand one-way level design being frustrating, so I may as well change it.

 

3. When I was making my rendition of the level I couldn't remember how reaching that section of the map worked, so in the spirit of the project I just came up with something that "could make sense":

 

  Hide contents

 

One of the chaingunner/imp alcoves near that part of the map has two paintings instead of only one; pressing either of them triggers an elevator allowing you to go up there.

 

I think there's a teleporter somewhere else in the map that takes you into that alcove, but I feel like fixing this for the sake of "being like the original" kind of goes against the intent of the project, so I don't feel inclined to change it unlike the other two issues you mentioned.

1. Ah I see, I wasn't sure whether I'd just not triggered something or not. 

2. To be honest, I can't remember whether it was one-way or not in the original. I'm pretty sure that you could teleport back though.

2. Nono, I can get up to that area (found the elevator). I meant jumping to the BFG platform itself, as the original had you run up the pyramid and jump onto the upper ledge. I couldn't see a teleporter that I might've have missed. In all fairness though, I may have been too busy raging about how difficult the map is now to catch it haha. 

1 hour ago, Flyxolydian said:

I meant jumping to the BFG platform itself, as the original had you run up the pyramid and jump onto the upper ledge. I couldn't see a teleporter that I might've have missed.

aaaaaah, gotcha gotcha. Then the answer to that is

Pog.

Looking into UDB and might know why you can't access the secret exit via MAP15:

The Door's linedef tag is set to 0, and same with the door's sector... :l

3 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Looking into UDB and might know why you can't access the secret exit via MAP15:

The Door's linedef tag is set to 0, and same with the door's sector... :l

It's a DR, so there shouldn't be any issues. What source port are you using?

On 2/13/2023 at 11:22 AM, bofu said:

Most of my contributions aren't particularly cursed because I have a pretty strong memory

Don't worry Bofu, my lack of memory always balances out your efforts lmao.

Tbh I forgot about this project for awhile, but glad to see it has finally released!  Congrats to everyone involved

Haven't played yet, but I have the soundtrack as hosted on YouTube running in the background while working. I like this better than the original!

That is, until Soldier of Chaos. I imagine that's what Doom music sounds like after having a bad stroke...(I don't mean that as criticism. It's just very cursed on the timing.)

Just a heads-up: the yellow door in MAP06 is openable without the key.

Another update is out, MAP20 is fixed, and MAP06 is also fixed. I've also seen several reports about MAP15's secret doors, but they work properly in Woof and Prboom+.

Since I basically hashed out an entire playthrough across 2 days, these are all the issues I found (though I forget which image is for which map). Also note that I've used a spoiler and used Post-Image since there's a fair number of pictures. Also, some issues are more nit-picky than others:

Overall though this was a ton of fun to go through! Well done everyone! :D

Went back to MAP20 again. The switches are indeed fixed; however, there seems to be another issue as well. Maybe it's a blockmap thing, but collision in the basin at the east end of the map is utterly borked; it's possible to walk through or into walls, only monster melee attacks can hit anything, items can't be picked up, and linedef specials cannot be triggered. This unfortunately seems to make the map unbeatable, as the teleporter to begin the "memory lane" TP sequence up to the exit ledge is in that funky region.

Regarding MAP15, I think the issue is still present. It is possible to reach the secret exit if the player runs straight there. However, one of the nearby staircases to the circular hub has a walkover line which causes the sector behind the teleport line to do an "open wait close" action. If this happens, it becomes impossible to enter the teleporter, as the sector behind the TP line now has height 0. This should be easily fixed by removing tag 5 from the teleporter sector.

It seems like my nodebuilder was breaking MAP20, I guess the map was just too big or something. Should be fine now. For some reason the MAP15 secret has a door open close tagged to it, I changed the tags so hopefully that fixes it. I'll get back to the rest of the issues when I have some more time, but it should work without any levels breaking for now.

The download is marked "v4" and has no .txt file. Does that mean it's more of a release candidate? There are also bug reports above.

Could map titles or slot ordering still change? Because then wiki coverage would be premature.

On 2/23/2023 at 7:10 PM, Xymph said:

The download is marked "v4" and has no .txt file. Does that mean it's more of a release candidate? There are also bug reports above.

Could map titles or slot ordering still change? Because then wiki coverage would be premature.

 

Its technically a release candidate, but due to the nature of this project, titles and slot ordering won't be changing. The above bug reports are also more minor issues that are going to be hard to fix due to the nature of their reporting, but I hope to fix them before final release to idgames archive. Wiki coverage should be perfectly fine at this stage, as I highly doubt much will change, (although automaps might change a little).

2 hours ago, Engired said:

but I hope to fix them before final release to idgames archive. Wiki coverage should be perfectly fine at this stage, as I highly doubt much will change, (although automaps might change a little).

Those, and the statistics, therefore. So I prefer to hold off to avoid double work -- that is induced by plenty post-final releases already.

Wow uh forgot i did this until a few days ago, glad that we finished! Will there be a Plutonia one or has that already been done?

1 hour ago, Lord_Future said:

Wow uh forgot i did this until a few days ago, glad that we finished! Will there be a Plutonia one or has that already been done?

In case you hadn’t seen it yet, you can follow it here!

3 hours ago, Death Bear said:

In case you hadn’t seen it yet, you can follow it here!

Thanks man :D

Map16 has a softlock:

This teleport in map20 causes some kind of All Ghosts Bug, at least in GZDoom:

Also in map20 i managed to break this contraption at first try, leading to a softlock, had to noclip through it:

the same issue with this (secret) teleport not far from first one:

Edit: looks like this entire big open area has this bug, not only teleports.

2 hours ago, ax34 said:

the same issue with this (secret) teleport not far from first one:

  Reveal hidden contents

Edit: looks like this entire big open area has this bug, not only teleports.

MAP20 was fixed a couple updates ago, it should be working as of now.

Playing through it right now in DSDA Doom... is it just me or some levels in the pack were created with DOOM2.WAD in mind and others with TNT.WAD? Open Season for instance was full of HOMs when I played it through Doom2.WAD, but looked fine with TNT.wad. Likewise, MAP31 had HOMs when played with TNT.WAD, although I can't confirm if these were fixed in DOOM2.WAD or not.

Also, intermission text do not work with TNT.WAD loaded. It will just display the regular intermission text. It works fine with DOOM2.WAD. You might also want to format the text so that it will display fine in all source ports, the prelude to MAP07 just went out of bounds and couldn't all be read in DSDA Doom. (text seemed okay in GZDoom).

Overall, map and midi quality has went up ever since the first two installment so good job on that everyone! All that's really left is to make the whole package cohesive and this should be all good to go.

45 minutes ago, PsychEyeball said:

Playing through it right now in DSDA Doom... is it just me or some levels in the pack were created with DOOM2.WAD in mind and others with TNT.WAD? Open Season for instance was full of HOMs when I played it through Doom2.WAD, but looked fine with TNT.wad. Likewise, MAP31 had HOMs when played with TNT.WAD, although I can't confirm if these were fixed in DOOM2.WAD or not.

 

Also, intermission text do not work with TNT.WAD loaded. It will just display the regular intermission text. It works fine with DOOM2.WAD. You might also want to format the text so that it will display fine in all source ports, the prelude to MAP07 just went out of bounds and couldn't all be read in DSDA Doom. (text seemed okay in GZDoom).

 

Overall, map and midi quality has went up ever since the first two installment so good job on that everyone! All that's really left is to make the whole package cohesive and this should be all good to go.

It is meant to be played with TNT.wad. DOOM2 shouldn't have any unique textures, I suspect map31's are just normal HOMs. Though I'm not sure why the text doesn't work on DSDA, because the lumps should be set up the same. It might be a source port thing.

2 minutes ago, Engired said:

 

It is meant to be played with TNT.wad. DOOM2 shouldn't have any unique textures, I suspect map31's are just normal HOMs. Though I'm not sure why the text doesn't work on DSDA, because the lumps should be set up the same. It might be a source port thing.

I think Final Doom has its own strings.

On 3/4/2023 at 3:34 PM, Engired said:

 

It is meant to be played with TNT.wad. DOOM2 shouldn't have any unique textures, I suspect map31's are just normal HOMs. Though I'm not sure why the text doesn't work on DSDA, because the lumps should be set up the same. It might be a source port thing.

The correct text also didn't appear in GZDoom if I loaded TNT.WAD. Apparently it's got something to do with Ultimate Doom, Doom 2, TNT and Plutonia Experiment all having different names for the text strings. For instance, the intermission text strings for Doom 2 are C1TEXT up to C6TEXT, but for TNT, they become T1TEXT to T6TEXT. Likewise, map names in Doom 2 are HUSTR_1 to HUSTR_32 but in TNT Evilution, they become THUSTR_1 to THUSTR_32.

Possible culprit for most of these text problems?

11 hours ago, PsychEyeball said:

The correct text also didn't appear in GZDoom if I loaded TNT.WAD. Apparently it's got something to do with Ultimate Doom, Doom 2, TNT and Plutonia Experiment all having different names for the text strings. For instance, the intermission text strings for Doom 2 are C1TEXT up to C6TEXT, but for TNT, they become T1TEXT to T6TEXT. Likewise, map names in Doom 2 are HUSTR_1 to HUSTR_32 but in TNT Evilution, they become THUSTR_1 to THUSTR_32.

 

Possible culprit for most of these text problems?

I wonder if the unity version is the only version that works, because I can see the text in GZDoom. I'll try and get a fix out relatively soon.