[Community Project] Doom 2 Minus Doom (development thread)

18 minutes ago, Rorix said:

Map 19 is all done!       

Suggestions for any final improvements are welcome.

MAP

Just a suggestion but maybe add a chaingun or chaingunner encounter at the start as fighting the Pain Elementals is hard with only a few shells. Probably not a problem if you're not pistol starting.

There are 4 chaingunners on the ledges outside the first building on medium and hard. On easy, there is one at the top of the lift instead of the Hell Knights.

I think I'm dropping map 29, I haven't been really working on that map since day 1.

MAP24 progress

2 hours ago, Rorix said:

There are 4 chaingunners on the ledges outside the first building on medium and hard. On easy, there is one at the top of the lift instead of the Hell Knights.

Am I playing the right level, there's no ledges?

It could do with a better starting weapon than the S.Shotgun to fight loads of Pain Elementals and Lost Souls.

Just to let you know, CEMENT6 is in d1. Just wanted to help.

Sorry I've been away, everyone!

@RileyXY1 Thanks for submitting this map! I like the idea behind it - a cave filled with blood with a small techbase techbase - and think the stark lighting fits the title. There are a few issues:

• There are no co-op starts or deathmatch starts
• The lifts, particularly the final lift, could really benefit from having a different texture than the surrounding walls
• The map is very boxy and doesn't really evoke a cave setting. Caves have more organic, flowing shapes. This would also help to increase the contrast between the cave and techbase sections of the map. It might be worth looking at other maps submitted to this project that also feature cavernous areas, like Lorcav's MAP09: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2598479
• It's rather easy given its late mapslot, and there isn't much difference between difficulty settings.

@Rorix Great! The tweaks have definitely made the map more readable. This is a really cool, nonlinear map.

@Raspoza No problem. I'll mark that slot as open.

@Sneezy McGlassFace Looking good!

@Codename_DeltaOh no! Thanks for letting me know. I'll update the OP, but I'm inclined to let already-submitted maps stay as they are.

@Walter confetti Should I mark your MAP02 complete?

7 hours ago, Anarkzie said:

 

Am I playing the right level, there's no ledges?

 

It could do with a better starting weapon than the S.Shotgun to fight loads of Pain Elementals and Lost Souls.

Wrong map. Mine looks like this

7 hours ago, Anarkzie said:

 

Am I playing the right level, there's no ledges?

 

It could do with a better starting weapon than the S.Shotgun to fight loads of Pain Elementals and Lost Souls.

Just tested it. The chaingunners show up after you go up the lift inside the building. The PEs don't usually show up until later; they start all the way across the map, behind the rock wall.

4 hours ago, Rorix said:

Just tested it. The chaingunners show up after you go up the lift inside the building. The PEs don't usually show up until later; they start all the way across the map, behind the rock wall.

It's your map and you're totally free to do what you want with it but I was suggesting getting the chaingun before going up the lift. The Pain Elementals fly freely and will swamp you by the time you kill the Nazis and Arachnotron leaving you with just a couple of shells and a pistol to fight your way up the lift to deal with Hell Nobles and a bunch of other stuff. Like I said it probably won't be an issue for players that play continuously or are better skilled and more motivated than myself.

Anyway that's just my own feedback in response to your request.

You know what?

I think I could give MAP29 a shot.

5 hours ago, janiform said:

Should I mark your MAP02 complete?

If there's not any bug in it, yes.

Whoops! Totally forgot about multiplayer. Added coop starts, deathmatch starts, and some extra ammo, weapons, monsters for multiplayer. Added a chaingun at the beginning on easy difficulty.      

MAP

19 hours ago, janiform said:

Sorry I've been away, everyone!

 

@RileyXY1 Thanks for submitting this map! I like the idea behind it - a cave filled with blood with a small techbase techbase - and think the stark lighting fits the title. There are a few issues:

• There are no co-op starts or deathmatch starts
• The lifts, particularly the final lift, could really benefit from having a different texture than the surrounding walls
• The map is very boxy and doesn't really evoke a cave setting. Caves have more organic, flowing shapes. This would also help to increase the contrast between the cave and techbase sections of the map. It might be worth looking at other maps submitted to this project that also feature cavernous areas, like Lorcav's MAP09: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2598479
• It's rather easy given its late mapslot, and there isn't much difference between difficulty settings.

@Rorix Great! The tweaks have definitely made the map more readable. This is a really cool, nonlinear map.

@Raspoza No problem. I'll mark that slot as open.

@Sneezy McGlassFace Looking good!

@Codename_DeltaOh no! Thanks for letting me know. I'll update the OP, but I'm inclined to let already-submitted maps stay as they are.

@Walter confetti Should I mark your MAP02 complete?

Notably, while testing the map I kept getting killed so I kept removing monsters from the map to help myself beat it. 

D2MD25 v2.zip

This is the new version of the map. Co-op and DM starts are added, some of the rooms were stretched to make them look less like squares (and three pillars were added to the room in front of the techbase entrance), and the final lift now uses a different texture.

Finally finished a first version of my map! :-) Ammo/Health balance is a bit off due to lack of testing, but it's certainly playable.

MAP 27: Fortress of Pain

MIDI: default

DOWNLOAD: D2MD_MAP27_PinkFlamingo.zip

TESTED IN: GZDoom 471, dsda-doom 0.21.3

Important: One of the fights is designed to abuse a bug/engine quirk so you must play this on complevel 2 for the proper experience (you'll notice when it happens ;-). For GZDoom users: set compatibility to Doom (strict) for a similar experience.

I've limited myself to only using 4 monster types here. I've noticed when playing other people's maps that most use all the available monsters. I think that in the end, when playing the entire megawad, this is going to create a sense of "sameness", so focusing only on a few monster types per map might keep things fresh.

Enjoy!

@janiform

Since the MAP29 slot is still open, can I take it?

Sorry for the late replies, everyone. Some life things came up. I've been thinking about using a custom status bar for this project - does anyone know of any good status bars that use Doom 2 textures as their base? If not, I might try to whip something up based on METAL2.

@AxurisSure! MAP29 is yours.

@Rorix Thanks for the update! Should I mark this complete?

@PinkFlamingo Wow, this is a great map! The Doom 2 hell aesthetics are captured perfectly, the combat is varied and inventive, and the secrets are amazing. Great opening shot. You've clearly thought a lot about the implications of only using Doom 2 elements, and it shows. The restrictions you've created work well to give the map a distinct feel,as does that engine quirk! The only criticism I have is that there are no DM starts.

@RileyXY1 Thanks for updating the map to add co-op and DM starts. The thing is that this map is very basic and short, and this project's guidelines are that "maps shouldn't be remakes of Doom 2 maps, but should be roughly similar in detail, size and difficulty to maps from the Doom 2 iwad ." While your map isn't, and shouldn't be, a remake of Doom 2 MAP25, I encourage you to compare your map to Doom 2 MAP25's difficulty level on each setting, as well as its size and detail: your map has roughly one-third the sectors, and less than one-third the linedefs, of the original MAP25. Do you feel like you can reach a level of detail, size, and difficulty comparable to the original map?

3 hours ago, janiform said:

Sorry for the late replies, everyone. Some life things came up. I've been thinking about using a custom status bar for this project - does anyone know of any good status bars that use Doom 2 textures as their base? If not, I might try to whip something up based on METAL2.

 

@AxurisSure! MAP29 is yours.

 

@Rorix Thanks for the update! Should I mark this complete?

 

@PinkFlamingo Wow, this is a great map! The Doom 2 hell aesthetics are captured perfectly, the combat is varied and inventive, and the secrets are amazing. Great opening shot. You've clearly thought a lot about the implications of only using Doom 2 elements, and it shows. The restrictions you've created work well to give the map a distinct feel,as does that engine quirk! The only criticism I have is that there are no DM starts.

 

@RileyXY1 Thanks for updating the map to add co-op and DM starts. The thing is that this map is very basic and short, and this project's guidelines are that "maps shouldn't be remakes of Doom 2 maps, but should be roughly similar in detail, size and difficulty to maps from the Doom 2 iwad ." While your map isn't, and shouldn't be, a remake of Doom 2 MAP25, I encourage you to compare your map to Doom 2 MAP25's difficulty level on each setting, as well as its size and detail: your map has roughly one-third the sectors, and less than one-third the linedefs, of the original MAP25. Do you feel like you can reach a level of detail, size, and difficulty comparable to the original map?

I don't know. Although this map was absolutely brutal to me when I was testing it. I kept deleting enemies out of pure frustration as I kept dying. So yeah, I nerfed my map out of pure anger.

@RileyXY1Honestly, I would suggest focusing on the size and detail parts and saving difficulty for later.

Sorry if it seems like I've been doing not much. I've gotten busy with life over the past weeks.

I will say however, that my map layout is complete, and thing placement is semi-finished.

20 hours ago, janiform said:

 

@Rorix Thanks for the update! Should I mark this complete?

 

Yep, all done.

On 1/13/2023 at 4:26 PM, xScavengerWolfx said:

So my question is this. When you say limit removing do you mean something like UDMF Format or do you mean vanilla format?

In general, limit-removing usually means vanilla format but without worrying about limitations like visplanes, drawsegs, sprite limits, etc.

So it's been a while since I started working on MAP29, and up until today I haven't gotten very far, plus I'm not all that satisfied with I have made.

Anyway, with that out of the way, I would like my slot to be unclaimed.

@QuillSounds good, keep us posted!

@AxurisNo problem - unclaimed.

Nothing playable just yet, but I do have a the first few areas in the works.

Map 14: The Lanes

Opening Area:

Red Key room:

@jazzmaster9Looking good! I love that overpass or pedestrian bridge in the first shot.

@PinkFlamingoJust checking to ask if you've had a chance to add DM starts to your map - otherwise it seems complete to me, unless you had other changes in mind.

I've attempted a status bar replacement based on the METAL textures:

@janiform, here is the new version: D2MD_MAP27_PinkFlamingo_V2.zip

This version has deathmatch starts, proper difficulty settings, and co-op monsters implemented.

I consider this version final :-)

@PinkFlamingoAwesome, I've marked your map complete. Thanks for contributing to this project! I really like this map.

I'd like to make a claim on map 29, I need a kick to really get myself back into doom mapping anyways. Feel like this might be a good way to do it.

So, playing through a few of the maps, my thoughts...

Map 3: Comm Center - Pretty solid map! Had just barely enough ammo to make it through on UV. The start would probably be a bit too nasty for anyone who doesn't discover the secret, though. Only other qualm is that the doors have the "panel" bit of the graphic at the very bottom, which looks strange given that those door textures usually place the "panel" at roughly the middle.

Map 4: Exit Planet Dust - Another good map! However, there's a bit of oddity with hidden monsters. The area where the pain elemental pops in behind you has a graphical glitch where the false wall is, and past the drop and brief acid pit, the revenants hidden in the walls can end up firing at you before being warped out of their hidey-holes. One in the open area seemed stuck in his hidey-hole, and never could find an angle to shoot out of either.

Map 8: Traps and Tricks - There's two places with glaring hall-of-mirror effects—the column that lowers to reveal a pain elemental at the start of the map, and the area with the arch-vile past the rocket launcher. And a small nitpick, but with the second set of pick-the-right-teleporters, I feel it would be nicer if the teleporters were more neatly laid-out just to make it easier for the player to remember which one they picked. But all in all, good map!

Map 9: Akuji Blood Pit - This was the first map I didn't really care much for, and the use of a music track from a Plutonia MIDI pack quite handily foreshadows why. It's the first map that really feels like it overuses revenants, with encounters that consists largely of mass revenant waves. But even those, like most of the map's fighting, is easily overcome at range and/or via choke-points with the abundance of rockets the map gives you. The level design is nice, but I just didn't vibe with the gameplay.

I'll go through more later; judging by the number of enemies, Map 10 will be a fair bit longer than these maps.