Based Refueling (yet another first map)

Alright, I found time to re-focus the fights in the first few rooms on all three difficulty levels now (in fact, I find HNTR fun to play in the madcap "wake all the monsters up" kind of way now, so possible bonus there). I've also fixed a ton of things, including re-texturing a few spots to make it clearer what switches do, or send a very strong signal to be ready before you open a door.. that sort of thing. Weapons and items have also been moved around to account for the changes. I'll update the topic post with a download link to the rc2 in a moment.

Cacoworthy, at least for a honorable mention

If anyone's out there, I was just wondering if it's still worth removing unused textures from a wad before final release if it's only 12mb to begin with and will only save a meg or two at most? I'm realize there are still people out there on crappy or heavily metered connections, but I'm not sure how much a meg or two matter these days in the Doom scene.

I'd say, if it's unused, then remove it...

Yeah, I was going to anyway, but I figured if nobody cares then I'd spare myself a few minutes of clicking checkboxes in Slade.

Alright, I'm calling the rc2 download the final release. I'll update the main topic after my pending idgames and DoomShack requests go through. In the meantime the link currently there works fine.

Here's a summary of the changes the wad has gone through since the first version I posted here (in case anyone who played an earlier version is curious what they're missing):

• combat in several arenas was re-done to be more distinctive and make RNG less of a factor. This is especially true for the first few rooms/arenas, the big gray cavern, and the "garage", but little tweaks were made virtually everywhere.
• weapon placement was changed around to make it easier to get a decent or good weapon earlier, rewarding aggression and exploration a bit more, and making sure players aren't drastically under-equipped, and adding a bit more strategy to the mix.
• tons of tiny bugs and nits were addressed, including potential line-skips for those playing on complevel 2, and making some lifts rise faster.
• signposting of various things was tweaked, especially some dangerous areas players may want to initially avoid, but remember to come back to later.
• some switches were reworked to make their purpose clearer, like making one door a "green" door, with its switch sharing the same green texture.
• some gory visual detailing was added here and there.
• gave all the things appropriate angles so they look better when using voxel doom.

I'd like to thank everyone again for playtesting, especially @Sesamia, @Ravendesk, @reaction, @sandwedge and @BerserkerNoir for their demos and/or detailed chats with me.

Also thanks to anyone who may have been waiting patiently while I found the time to get this over the finish line!

Gratz on the final release! I hope once it hits idgames you get more people playing it. It's really fun and rewarding to explore the map and the new combat is tight, def recommend it to anyone who likes non-linear maps and especially for fans of the original. Also, great title!

Yay, I finally managed to un-screw-up my DoomShack upload and also get the map up on idgames! I've updated the links in the topic post, so folks have their choice of mirrors now.

Damn, there's so many screenshots I may not even need to play the map to see everything. Obviously joking. Screens looks awesome though, definitely gonna try this here in a bit. Great work and thanks for sharing it with us.

Just now, Shulbocka said:

Damn, there's so many screenshots I may not even need to play the map to see everything.

All jokes aside, there's quite a lot that isn't in the screenshots, so I hope you enjoy chewing some scenery gum after you've kicked around some demon rear :)

3 hours ago, StarTanned said:

 

All jokes aside, there's quite a lot that isn't in the screenshots, so I hope you enjoy chewing some scenery gum after you've kicked around some demon rear :)

I figured as much, and truly was joking. And I definitely will enjoy, I can promise you that. Thanks again.

Edit:

Forgot to say this, but the scene in screenshot "12" is honestly mind blowingly awesome.

Looking at those screenshots, I can confirm this is indeed based.

11 minutes ago, Gothic said:

Looking at those screenshots, I can confirm this is indeed based.

I hope it does live up to its corny title :)

Incidentally, I just remembered the video @BerserkerNoir made of my level, and thought I'd mention it here as he played it with a selection of mods that I feel turned out surprisingly well:

On 3/12/2023 at 11:59 PM, Serathis said:

Cacoworthy, at least for a honorable mention

most promising newcomers

57 minutes ago, raddicted said:

most promising newcomers

Oh stop, you two. You'll make an old sidedef blush.

based and doom-pilled

Tried it out in DSDA-Doom on HNTR after UV presented too much difficulty to just look at the map. Nice work! It's a little weird that switches and buttons don't flip properly and don't have the appropriate sound cues, but I liked the lighting and texturing a lot. It's a good expansion of Refueling Base, and I'm excited to see how it plays on the higher difficulty levels. The combat design on HNTR was nice and popcorny, just as I'd expect, without a lot of punishment for mistakes. I was hoping to encounter a cyberdemon at the end, even on easy mode, especially after I got the BFG, but sometimes it makes sense to use the BFG as a clean-up trivializer rather than a necessary anti-boss weapon. I tend to prefer shorter levels, and it's possible that higher difficulty levels would make this level overstay its welcome, but I liked this one a lot. Definitely worth recommending to fans of vanilla Doom 2 and people who like long maps.

I'm glad you enjoyed it so far!

7 minutes ago, Mr. Alexander said:

It's a little weird that switches and buttons don't flip properly and don't have the appropriate sound cues

Yeah, I guess having decorative switches for broken lifts and such is a failed experiment (at least not without using obvious "broken" textures for them, which I was trying to avoid in favor of sticking with stock Final Doom textures).

8 minutes ago, Mr. Alexander said:

I was hoping to encounter a cyberdemon at the end, even on easy mode

I honestly didn't know what folks like/expect in easy mode these days, but I'll definitely be happy to place them on easy mode in future maps :)

9 minutes ago, Mr. Alexander said:

I tend to prefer shorter levels

This map did end up being larger than I expected, yeah. That's the key reason why I decided to add an easy mode.I'm surprised at how easy it is for that to happen, in hindsight. I hope it's not too much for you to enjoy on higher difficulties! I wonder if this one might even benefit from a co-op mode.

Amazing work! This is the kind of level that I enjoy. I'm still only about 1/3rd of my way through the level, but I'm enjoying both the visuals and the gameplay so far. There are traps and ambushes, of course, but it always feels like combat is challenging because of monster composition and placement, not because you just threw a bunch of tanky enemies at the player and called it a day. Ammo was a little tight at first, but once I got the rocket launcher, all was right in the world, at least so far. Haven't died yet, but need to take a break for work. Loving it so far!

I don't think you need to make maps to suit other people's difficulty or length tastes. I learned a long time ago that you'll never please everyone that way, and I'd say you've definitely found a sweet spot!

Thanks @bofu, I'm glad you're enjoying it so far! I'm happy the extra effort I put into the encounters seems to have paid off. I hear you on not trying to please everyone, that's for sure. I knew this map would end up pretty long as I was mapping, but that didn't really influence me much. I just let it end up being what it ended up being, since I aimed to make it as engaging through the whole playthrough as I could. Adding difficulty levels wasn't merely a concession, even if I made it sound like that earlier. It was something I wanted to do all along. It was part of my challenge to myself to make it fun for other difficulty levels, I just didn't really have much insight into what players find enjoyable on those levels, since I'm more of a UV-maxer, and I did want folks to be able to have a quicker romp with it if they were more interested in the ambiance and visuals than relentless gameplay, so that's how it ended up. Kind of like maxing my map design, I guess, if that makes sense.

Had some free time after work today so I decided to get around to this. Phenomenal map, very clearly a shining example of how to make good use of stock textures in current year. Remains engaging the entire way through, interconnects in mostly seamless and reasonable ways, reuses areas with monster configurations that don't play the same the 2nd+ time through, has teeth and is willing to show them to you from the start. I adore all of the little secret nooks with stuff like SSGs tucked away in them. Thanks for sharing this map, I hope you continue mapping and making things with the same kind of passion that went into this.

FDA: br_maribo.zip - recorded in DSDA-Doom v0.25.6 with -dsdademo parameter, so you'll need that version for it to play back.

@Maribo I'm glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for the demo! I actually didn't realize that so many switches don't react on DSDA.. sorry about that! It seems that maybe I screwed up when I used Slade to remove unused textures, and didn't notice it had broken anything. But I'm not 100% sure, since it still works fine in Crispy and GZDoom for me, just not prBoom and DSDA. Now @Mr. Alexander's comment suddenly has a different meaning :S (Edit: yep, I somehow removed the SW2 patches, but not the SW1 patches. Good jorb, HomeTanned..)

Alright, I've updated the map with a fix for the Boom/DSDA glitch where many switches aren't visibly flipping. The Google Drive link is already updated, and the DoomShack and idgames versions will hopefully get updated over the next few days. Wish I had thought to do one more full playtest on a Boom port, but I guess that's part of the learning curve!

Definitely don't take my comments about the length and difficulty of the map as demands to shorten it or make it easier. I just meant to establish that I usually play shorter maps and am not a very good player, and that I liked this map a lot despite that taste. In any case, it's not like it's Deus Vult or Profane Promiseland, it's just a reasonably long level. As for the difficulty, that's what the difficulty levels are there for, and I'm glad you implemented them. It's still a fun map on easy mode, and now that I'm practicing it, UV is pretty great, especially once you get a rocket launcher. It doesn't waste your time and the combat stays lively. Looking forward to when the update hits idgames.

@Mr. Alexander oh don't worry, I intend to let my maps be whatever length makes the most sense from the point of view of fun, not anything too arbitrary :)

This one was pushing it a little for my liking, but only because the original map is pretty substantial if you try to make the most of it. I'm kind of surprised that there aren't more "new" rooms in the final map, and they almost all ended up being dressed-up versions of the various alleys and secret passages in the original.

If you're willing to download from Google Drive, that link is already updated, by the way.

Took me a while but at least I did it

I probably should have done it on HMP first and then UV, since this was hard as hell.

Had to constantly use saves because I'm not the best but this was still fun.
Also the switches not having visual cues wasn't exactly a problem for me, since you did a pretty good job at leading the player to or literally just showing the player what the switch did.

2 minutes ago, MoreMending said:

Had to constantly use saves because I'm not the best but this was still fun.

Glad you enjoyed it! I tried to playtest it for a bunch of play-styles, including save-scumming (especially since it's a relatively long map and I don't want to punish players with less time).

I do find it hilarious how folks always seem to immediately jump to UV even if you warn them in advance that it's meant to be tough, and you've implemented difficulty levels... but then I'm also guilty of doing that, so I don't judge. It's not like I'm a Doom god myself or anything.

It took a while, but the bugfix for the visually-broken switches is now up on idgames and Doomshack as well (in case anyone was waiting for that).

I had a blast playing through this!