Things about Doom you just found out

16 hours ago, Amaruψ said:

While it would be a mere coincidence, Icon of Sin's face and its horns vaguely form the shape of the female reproductive system. 

 

Which makes me even more curious about it giving birth to demons.

Coincidental in that the Icon of Sin is based on the sabbatical goat, which is also a representation of Baphomet; thus, its shape is due to that of a goat's skull. But then again some occultists think the resemblance of the uterus to such is exemplary of the principle of "as above, so below," which is associated with Baphomet, so, think whatever you will about that I guess! *laughs*

6 minutes ago, Quasar said:

Coincidental in that the Icon of Sin is based on the sabbatical goat, which is also a representation of Baphomet; thus, its shape is due to that of a goat's skull. But then again some occultists think the resemblance of the uterus to such is exemplary of the principle of "as above, so below," which is associated with Baphomet, so, think whatever you will about that I guess! *laughs*

I tried to give it a thought, but Icon of Sin's botched texture in Map30 distracted me a lot.

On 9/25/2023 at 1:49 PM, Amaruψ said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scrounging through the plethora of development files that John released a while back, I came across this contraption, labeled "gun2-scan".

 

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Given that it didn't match any of the weapons that're present in the game in any given way, I tried to ask John through a QnA what it was. Unfortunately, my question wasn't selected. This time, I actually forgot to ask so. So I thought huh, Decino does this whenever he has a question, so I would try my luck and hit John up with an email directly to ask what it was.

 

Response wasn't something that I was expecting.

 

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I'm not quite sure if John was misremembering something, but given that it's a common knowledge by now that the chaingun was the Tootsie Toy Ol' Painless, which is this in case someone needs a refreshment of memory.

 

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So I shot another email, but John still has to respond for that. Now, I'm highly curious if John was referring to the Machine Gun, which is just the chaingun's predecessor.

 

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They "sorta" bear some sort of resemblance to the original image, especially the pre 0.5 one. So who knows... I found out today that either John's misremembering something or Adrian did use that... thing as a reference for the chaingun too, or perhaps made an early iteration of the chaingun, whom's sprites are to yet surface. Or... John's just confusing the earlier machine gun sprites with the chaingun.

A bit of an update on this. John responded once again, and this time he clarified that the particular image was an earlier base for the chaingun, before they found the tootsie toy. 

Now it all makes sense. So, things about Doom that I just found out? The chaingun was going to look very different at some point.

1 hour ago, Amaruψ said:

 

A bit of an update on this. John responded once again, and this time he clarified that the particular image was an earlier base for the chaingun, before they found the tootsie toy. 

 

Now it all makes sense. So, things about Doom that I just found out? The chaingun was going to look very different at some point.

That all makes sense and is pretty cool! Thanks for reaching out about that!

Ravage over at the ZDoom forums actually made a pretty cool flamethrower using that image a while back:

https://imgur.io/NEszIY8

56 minutes ago, Faceman2000 said:

That all makes sense and is pretty cool! Thanks for reaching out about that!

 

Ravage over at the ZDoom forums actually made a pretty cool flamethrower using that image a while back:

 

https://imgur.io/NEszIY8

Holy moly, that one does actually look really neat.

14 hours ago, Faceman2000 said:

That all makes sense and is pretty cool! Thanks for reaching out about that!

 

Ravage over at the ZDoom forums actually made a pretty cool flamethrower using that image a while back:

 

https://imgur.io/NEszIY8

Apart from the flame being a bit too orange for Doom's art style, the gun sprite looked pretty good. With all the greys and browns in the palette it's no surprise that metallic objects look good. The work is a bit too close to the plasma gun for my liking. Those are very minor things to fix, the artwork is overall great! A different 'nozzle' would have made sense and given it more identity. Hats off though, better than 99% of  the stuff we usually see.

On 9/25/2023 at 9:58 AM, tumedaskihutaja_37685 said:

Invisibility is actually useful in some situations

Invisibility becomes more useful if you want to cause in-fights and chaos and when facing attacks you cannot dodge. If it hadn't been for imps being so common, invisibility would have been king in episode 1 in Doom. It can still shine in some hit-scan situations. It's probably a very nice power-up for many reality runs, where the goal is to take 0 damage.

1 hour ago, zokum said:

Invisibility becomes more useful if you want to cause in-fights and chaos and when facing attacks you cannot dodge. If it hadn't been for imps being so common, invisibility would have been king in episode 1 in Doom. It can still shine in some hit-scan situations. It's probably a very nice power-up for many reality runs, where the goal is to take 0 damage.

It's good for hitscan at close and long ranges alike, but for the projectiles, it's best suited for distances. Otherwise the offset is just confusingly random at close. 

1 hour ago, zokum said:

The work is a bit too close to the plasma gun for my liking. Those are very minor things to fix, the artwork is overall great! A different 'nozzle' would have made sense and given it more identity.

Yeah, the reused plasma gun nozzle is a bit obvious here, unfortunately.

30 minutes ago, Amaruψ said:

Otherwise the offset is just confusingly random at close. 

It astounds me that no one has made a mod for GZDoom that causes the enemies to actually face the direction they throw the projectile whilst affected by the blursphere.

Something I learned recently was that the GBA port of Doom was originally going to utilize a custom engine. According to the developer, the engine was about 95% complete, but then Romero and the publisher found the Jaguar Doom source code and had the developers use that as the basis for the GBA port. However, the GBA port of Doom II does use a custom engine, and it's believed that it might be the one the original developers were working on.

11 hours ago, drygnfyre said:

Something I learned recently was that the GBA port of Doom was originally going to utilize a custom engine. According to the developer, the engine was about 95% complete, but then Romero and the publisher found the Jaguar Doom source code and had the developers use that as the basis for the GBA port. However, the GBA port of Doom II does use a custom engine, and it's believed that it might be the one the original developers were working on.

Romero left id in 1996, and Doom 2 GBA uses Southpaw so absolutely not the original engine created for Doom 1 GBA.

In all honesty the original engine they created probably just wasn't very good or even not fit for purpose at all. GBA Doom 1 has its origins in a Doom game for GBC (what that would have entailed is unknown to me, because it obviously wasn't a port) and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a miscommunication along the way and the original GBA Doom was a port of that rather than being an actual Doom 1 port.

Slow Boom conveyor belts get faster when the game heavily lags. That means a voodoo script that takes 10 seconds to do its thing can be cut down to just 4 seconds when the game is running at low fps (My test used 1 to 5 fps). Time doesn't get lost either so you get to save 6 seconds in a speedrun - though I'm not sure how you can even get 1 fps without having 21000 medkits on one screen :P

At least that's the case for dsda-doom, not sure about other ports.

28 minutes ago, thiccyosh said:

Slow Boom conveyor belts get faster when the game heavily lags. That means a voodoo script that takes 10 seconds to do its thing can be cut down to just 4 seconds when the game is running at low fps (My test used 1 to 5 fps). Time doesn't get lost either so you get to save 6 seconds in a speedrun - though I'm not sure how you can even get 1 fps without having 21000 medkits on one screen :P

 

At least that's the case for dsda-doom, not sure about other ports.

You seem to be confused because boom conveyors are only run inside the ticker function, not the renderer and certainly not using a delta time of the frame rate. Yes, even in dsda. Otherwise demo recordings would be impossible.

You need to compare the in game level time when calculating these things, not an external stop watch.

9 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

You seem to be confused because boom conveyors are only run inside the ticker function, not the renderer and certainly not using a delta time of the frame rate. Yes, even in dsda. Otherwise demo recordings would be impossible.

 

You need to compare the in game level time when calculating these things, not an external stop watch.

Thank you for the explaination! I saw this in-game and just thought "Huh, that weird", and thought I was onto something. But I guess I should've known conveyors get handled differently and has nothing to do with game time, which makes sense to me now.

58 minutes ago, thiccyosh said:

Thank you for the explaination! I saw this in-game and just thought "Huh, that weird", and thought I was onto something. But I guess I should've known conveyors get handled differently and has nothing to do with game time, which makes sense to me now.

Well, conveyors are weird.

Conveyed actors speed up if the conveyor is split into multiple sectors. The actor will speed up as it crosses the border line, as it is temporarily affected by multiple conveyor specials.

Conveyed voodoo dolls have a sharp dropoff in speed when the conveyor control line is sufficiently short that the carrying velocity is below the STOPSPEED constant. In that case the doll is constantly halted and never allowed to build momentum. This is less observable in pre-MBF compatibility levels which retain the bug where real player momentum also affects voodoo dolls. In Boom you can speed up a doll on a slow conveyor by moving yourself. Action at a distance :)

18 hours ago, RjY said:

 In Boom you can speed up a doll on a slow conveyor by moving yourself. Action at a distance :)

Next community project... "Spookyboi action at a distance"

The textured top of the Ring of Death - O of Destruction where you first meet the archvile. Looks great tbh. 

To me it looks like map11 is one of many impossible-architecture locations. Doom is full of them. I have added some of them on the doomwiki, but there are most likely loads more. Whenever a game includes sky boxes, you run the risk of obscuring geometry you really should be able to see from a specific vantage point. I'm at work but it looks like the upper area has buildings you ought to be able to see from the main ring. This one isn't anywhere near as bad as one found in Doom's e1m1. There's often a choice between physically possible and better looking, and in Doom we often see the latter. Doors in one of those features where realism often is thrown out the window. On Doom's e4m1, when this door opens, where does it go? https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:E4M1_open_fire.png

On 9/25/2023 at 7:36 AM, MrGigglefingers said:

When primed to attack, the weird nodules on the Cacodemon and Pain Elementals' backs will glow. This is presumably so you know they are attacking without needing to see their face. The Pain Elemental has a nice, gradual animation where its flesh bubble gets brighter. But when the Caco attacks, its flesh bubbles turn blue instantly like a light switch. This looks pretty bad once you notice it.

 

 

Get @Revenant100 on the case asap

3 hours ago, zokum said:

To me it looks like map11 is one of many impossible-architecture locations. Doom is full of them. I have added some of them on the doomwiki, but there are most likely loads more. Whenever a game includes sky boxes, you run the risk of obscuring geometry you really should be able to see from a specific vantage point. I'm at work but it looks like the upper area has buildings you ought to be able to see from the main ring. This one isn't anywhere near as bad as one found in Doom's e1m1. There's often a choice between physically possible and better looking, and in Doom we often see the latter. Doors in one of those features where realism often is thrown out the window. On Doom's e4m1, when this door opens, where does it go? https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:E4M1_open_fire.png

Could be a set of stairs leading to a lower area. 

A few days ago, I discovered that the Techno Floor Lamp has a short variant.

I just found out 2 things about the map "Tricks and Traps":

1. If you quickly enter the room that leads to the exit, but then quickly go back into the hub room (before the lowering platform takes you to the hurt floor) - a teleporter will lower in the Caco hole room, it will teleport you next to the exit switch. This was most likely a multiplayer safety-net feature.
2. The room that contains the red key has all the walls set to one of the gray textures - except for one wall that has been set to one of the big brick textures. I don't know why, but I've never noticed that specific wall, it's not even a narrow wall - it's wide and it's the first wall that you see when you open the door. I guess I can be considered to be legally blind now.

On 9/25/2023 at 6:36 AM, MrGigglefingers said:

When primed to attack, the weird nodules on the Cacodemon and Pain Elementals' backs will glow. This is presumably so you know they are attacking without needing to see their face. The Pain Elemental has a nice, gradual animation where its flesh bubble gets brighter. But when the Caco attacks, its flesh bubbles turn blue instantly like a light switch. This looks pretty bad once you notice it.

 

 

They didn't glow enough for me, that's why I like blue cacodemons the most...

3 hours ago, Ar_e_en said:

1. The room that contains the red key has all the walls set to one of the gray textures - except for one wall that has been set to one of the big brick textures. I don't know why, but I've never noticed that specific wall, it's not even a narrow wall - it's wide and it's the first wall that you see when you open the door. I guess I can be considered to be legally blind now.

Don't forget that one step in the demon room that is textured differently

And I quote:

https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Megaarmor

"If a player that had last picked up a megaarmor is damaged to less than 100 percent armor, then they are able to pick up a green armor. If they do so, the megaarmor is replaced by the weaker armor which absorbs less damage per hit. Because of this, it is generally wise to avoid picking up green armor in this case. If the player picks up an armor bonus, however, the protection of the megaarmor will remain."

Blue armor gives better protection?! And can be downgraded to green by picking up green when below 100%!?!
 

I just figured the higher armor amount was the bonus, but no- the armor is actually more effective. Quake 1/2 is the same way.

I say this mainly considering that games now, even id Software games, made armor generic and purely based on amount. See: Quake 3, Doom 3, Quake 4, Doom 2016, Quake Champions, Doom Eternal

Heavier armor doesn't improve damage resistance in these games, it's just a higher amount of armor percentage. Doom 2016 and Eternal take it a step further- the armor absorbs a complete 100% of damage until drained, making it similar to suit power in the Half-Life games.

Hence why Quake (and most modern Doom source ports) has the HUD show your armor type, because it's actually relevant information.

E: More so in Quake since it has three different armor types compared to Doom's 2.

3 hours ago, Gibbitudinous said:

Hence why Quake (and most modern Doom source ports) has the HUD show your armor type, because it's actually relevant information.

To be honest I just thought that signified it was above 100%... which would technically be better armor, if it didn't add a defense bonus and was just above 100%.
 

I realized Quake does it, only somewhat more recently.

On 10/9/2023 at 3:55 PM, jo2ukegappy said:

 

Could be a set of stairs leading to a lower area. 

That's irrelevant. When the door is open, it should be visible from the outside area sticking out of the ceiling of that building. The door is 112 units tall or something like that, the sector difference between sky and door area is maybe 48 units at most. 112 - 48 - 4 = 60 units taller than the top of the building. You should clearly be able to see this from the outside area, but not in the Doom engine due to the way it works. You could postulate that the door works like a garage door, but given the wood construction and lack of seams, that isn't a very good explanation :) If the courtyard sky ceiling was ~56 units taller, it could work, but the area would look less impressive. In Doom you often have to choose between realistic or better looking, and in many cases, good looking won out.

This is not related to the game itself, but some (not all) UK copies of the Depths of DOOM Trilogy box have the border of the id logo embossed. Also, these alternate boxes have much "deeper" embossing, especially around the Cyberdemon's hips and the edges of the games' box shots. The entire box is also glossy, while on the more common US-style box only certain parts are glossy, such as the game covers and screenshots.

On samedi 14 octobre 2023 at 3:13 AM, Hellektronic said:

I just figured the higher armor amount was the bonus, but no- the armor is actually more effective. Quake 1/2 is the same way.

I say this mainly considering that games now, even id Software games, made armor generic and purely based on amount. See: Quake 3, Doom 3, Quake 4, Doom 2016, Quake Champions, Doom Eternal

Heavier armor doesn't improve damage resistance in these games, it's just a higher amount of armor percentage. Doom 2016 and Eternal take it a step further- the armor absorbs a complete 100% of damage until drained, making it similar to suit power in the Half-Life games.

There's also Hexen armor, which uses a different system in that armor protection is directly proportional to armor amount. The value the game shows is divided by 5 to give you an armor on a scale of 20 instead of a scale of 100, but if you multiply it back by 5, your armor value is your armor damage absorption. So if you have 16 armor, that means 16*5=80% damage absorption. This also means that armor protection drops quite fast. If you have 16 (actually 80) armor in Hexen, and you take 50 damage, the armor absorbs 80% of that (so 40), you take 10 damage but your armor now is just 8 (actually 40), so if you again take 50 damage this time the armor will only absorb 20 damage, letting you take the 30 remaining points.

Whereas armor in Doom, Heretic, and Strife offers constant protection rate until depleted.