give me scenarios where stupid dumbass barons don't completely suck

9 minutes ago, Lucius Wooding said:

What's the point of this thread if you're just going to disregard some of the most important reasons to use them? Your next thread should be "How much of a threat are cyberdemons really, if you put aside their ability to shoot rockets?". At least my last post had 3 entire other paragraphs with their own distinct points to try and contribute to the conversation. 

Weakest Baron of Hell enjoyer.

Not to sound dismissive about that last post though, which has good points btw.

49 minutes ago, roadworx said:

NO!!!!! BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

absorbs the water and becomes stronger

7 minutes ago, Grain of Salt said:

 

absorbs the water and becomes stronger

I'm pretty sure absorbing the water is exactly the opposite of what a duck's feathers are supposed to do

You are partly right in my opinion, and I imagine that they created the hell knight in Doom2 because of that.

But... as the wads became more complex, Barons are one of the best options in fights if they are "well" complemented with other kind of monsters, especially on narrow spaces or with obstacles. Even at slaughter battles with only Barons and a BFG, they could shit on you because you have to get too close because of the ammo (health too high).

I like that level in (I think) Requiem where there's a small corridor that has you separated from a ton of Barons by a bunch of bars, but you're discouraged from killing them because there's an archie behind them - the corridor is too narrow to get rockets past the barons to kill it, and you realise the futility of trying to whittle the number down when the bastard is just gonna resurrect them again (coz we all know that a baron is the worst enemy an archie can resurrect), and so you realise you have to find another way into that area.

Either Requiem or MM2

I enjoy giving the player a rocket launcher and enough rockets, then putting them in a tight close quarters fight with a Baron. Do you use the rockets and risk the splash damage? Do you start with the rockets then switch to the shotty when he gets to close, leaving you defenseless as you switch guns? Do you fight the attrition fight with him with just your shotgun?

I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but I find those fights super tense.

EDIT: I should clarify that this is in a Doom 1 context - the SSG in Doom 2 kinda robs this sort of encounter of much challenge.

It is true that Barons are more like brawlers than the mobile artillery platform that the Revenants are. The Bruisers are still scary looking though. That awakening noise they make also still gives me the willies.

Barons are great when they're used in ways unlike Doom 1, hah.

No, in all serious though, the Barons in E4M1 are on the of the most stressful, tense encounters in the franchise, obviously. But for more practical cases, I use them whenever I want to signpost that the player should prioritize, panic button, or overtly run away, depending on whether they have the rocket launcher, bfg, or neither respectively. 

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/barondoor

They're pretty cool in HDoom but all they do there is suck. I don't know wtf is wrong with this enemy.

Baiting a baron's shot and doing evasive maneuvers in tight corridors is a pretty fun encounter that becomes trivial if you use a hell knight.

Oh boy, i recommend you stay away from DOOM64 if it's not too late..

Have a play through Baron Door series by clippy and co for tons of creative uses of barons. Often as literal doors but not always. 

Barons are cool. They walk around, haughty, throwing fireballs here and there. Often you can pretty much ignore them at first. Except for when you can't, and your own arrogance gets you cornered and ripped apart with unflinching 80 damage melee attacks. I like the way they change in threat between Doom 1 and 2 as well.

magnolia :)

On 11/23/2023 at 10:12 PM, jerrysheppy said:

I'm pretty sure absorbing the water is exactly the opposite of what a duck's feathers are supposed to do

 

I used the red stone of Aja to become a duck who can absorb water, and now I'm pretty much invincible

Romero knows how to use them, look at Sigil map 02 

One of the few enemies that has staying power and acts as a very good ammo sink. With how oversaturated most WADs are with ammo, they definitely have their place.

Also, due to their relatively small size, you have to be semi-close to one shot them with the BFG. Medium range is a gamble and you are mostly at the mercy of RNG for the main projectile damage. 5-6 rockets is also a very high amount of punishment. Hell needs its tanks, not everything has to die in 3 SSG shots/rockets.

If I had to make a change, it would actually be to the Hell Knights. Always found it weird that they do the same amount of damage as Barons. Should have been around 8-64 instead 10-80 of the Baron.

If I were to change the baron, I would make it so that it could randomly launch 3 fireballs at once in different directions. I think Skulltag had a modified baron variant that did just that.

@Li'l devil Yep the Belphegor. Even just a more aggressive attack certainly helps differentiate him from just being an imp with way more health and a more damaging fireball.

3 minutes ago, Li'l devil said:

If I were to change the baron, I would make it so that it could randomly launch 3 fireballs at once in different directions. I think Skulltag had a modified baron variant that did just that.

This can be done with mbf21 as well.

Bloodstain has a baron that simply fires 2 fireballs one after another. It already feels like it justifies its HP level in far more situations.

64-wide hallways are the only place I like to see barons :P

On 11/24/2023 at 2:56 AM, baja blast rd. said:

 

What the hell happened there? D:

As for barons itself, they aren't too bad if you have abundant rockets or bfg to spare tbh. With a small group and working with some space restriction (not only walls, but also damaging floors, railways, height differences, etc), you can do some interesting stuff with them.

However, they are indeed incredible boring if you have to deal with them with a SSG.

5 minutes ago, Deadwing said:

However, they are indeed incredible boring if you have to deal with them with a SSG.

thanks for the tip. need to edit my current map a bit :)

On 11/29/2023 at 12:13 PM, baja blast rd. said:

Bloodstain has a baron that simply fires 2 fireballs one after another. It already feels like it justifies its HP level in far more situations.

 

 

That reminds me of an BEX patch that i made which does that

But after its pain state is triggered, or when in melee range 

I also made the baron's walking frames last for 2 tics instead of 3, and its attacking frames lasting for 6 tics each instead of 8

And lastly, i made its speed value a 9 and halved its painchance

oh my god why would you dredge up this cringy-ass thread just to necropost in it and force everyone to see it. you goddamn bastard 

Now that this has been dug up. I missed it originally. I just want to say I love Barons. I will say when I put them in my Doom 1 maps (the few I've done), I do get people complaining about them. But I have a soft spot for them because they are cool as hell and tanky. That is all.