NO MORE 3D CURSED MODELS FOR DOOM

sick.

2 hours ago, SupremeBioVizier said:

sick.

is too late to say this 

It's a good start, but I think animating the models and making the movement look natural is going to be the most difficult part of this project. Currently the Imp moves more like a damaged Terminator than an organic creature.

I think one of the reasons that there is yet to be a complete DOOM model set that actually looks good is that it's nigh impossible to create models that are faithful to the original sprites without them looking out of place. Additionally, DOOM's relatively simple AI with zig-zagging monsters means even well-animated models may still look weird in motion.

In case anyone is curious, images of the previous two DOOM model packs can be viewed here:

15 hours ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

É um bom começo, mas acho que animar os modelos e tornar o movimento natural será a parte mais difícil deste projeto. Atualmente, o Imp se move mais como um Terminator danificado do que como uma criatura orgânica.

 

Eu acho que uma das razões pelas quais ainda há um conjunto completo de modelos DOOM que realmente parece bom é que é quase impossível criar modelos que sejam fiéis ao original sprites sem eles olhando para fora do lugar. Além disso, a IA relativamente simples do DOOM com monstros em zigue-zague significa que mesmo modelos bem animados ainda podem parecer estranhos em movimento.

Caso alguém esteja curioso, as imagens dos dois pacotes de modelos DOOM anteriores podem ser visualizadas aqui:

 

there is also the fact the monsters of doom don't follow rules of proportion 

This looks VERY good don't get me wrong, but the simple geometry of the maps always clash with detailed models like these, at least for me.

On 11/26/2023 at 6:24 PM, ThatKidBobo said:

This looks VERY good don't get me wrong, but the simple geometry of the maps always clash with detailed models like these, at least for me.

men that model is 7.345 vertices but is the quantity for reason is triangulate in blender sometimes crash if I put 9 of this scene, in gzdoom have much more performance 60/120 fps and my pc is medium. 

Another crazy Brazilian guy appears. The 3D modeling looks cool, friend. If my advice means anything, try changing the motion of the fireball appearing to an upward motion. Imp was, raises hand, fireball appears. Something like that, I'm no artist. Cheers.

This is cursed af lol

Bring back Jdoom

Imo the only 3D models that will ever look good are the voxelised ones.

Regular polygon models will only look good in a remake or something but not in the original Doom.

On 11/26/2023 at 3:57 PM, BaianãoDoido said:

there is also the fact the monsters of doom don't follow rules of proportion 

Was that comparison done with or without taking the VGA mode vertical stretching into account though?  I think one of the problems some of the model packs have had is they make the creatures too squat due to modeling them after sprite rips viewed at a square pixel aspect ratio when the original game resolution had somewhat tall pixels.

I know you are designing this for BD but if you want to make this look better you should look into the features of the Doomsday Engine.

The Imp and Cacodemon are going to have fully rendered rectums right?

At this rate we're gonna see modders popping out doom eternal quality remakes of doom 1 and 2 running on zdoom by 2028.We've finally found someone who makes actually good 3d models of doom enemies, Like Ultimatedoomer66 said, if this had a bit more animation to it, this could genuinely be better than the 2016 imp design when it comes to balancing similarity to the original art, while still looking realistic. You've done a fantastic job so far.

For increased Doom 93'iness, maybe try stair-stepping your animation key frames, rather than spline-curving them? To emulate the original anim feel of the sprites. But yeah, 3D monster models are always gonna have some level of cursedyness in the original engine - they kinda beg for the environment to also get a new sheen of whatever the artist is adding. Nice work on the imp though, I especially like the body anatomy, but not WILD about the head/mouth interpretation.

If you want some input on an eventual re-do of the head, maybe take some cues from this formative-for-Doom head sculpt:

I will absorb all this feedback and add new things, literally I have some ideas for gore create physics in cut off members like brutal half life, fatality just we have in brutal doom, just have one problem..... i never scripted before and don't understand about schedule anything. and don't have any tutorial available in my language.  

If you're unsure how to solve those technical issues, then focus on your strong side man. You've got a great anatomical vibe going, exaggerated comic-book style, in the veins of Frazetta/Bisley, Darkest Dungeon II, Street Fighter IV / V. Its a cool look, hard to come by really. Clearly you control UVs, which most modellers don't even have the patience for. At least make sure you have a plan for the technical solutions (good tool with stable dev environment, etc) before you rework everything & chop your model into detachable bits! Could be time consuming enough to become demoralising, which you obviously don't want. That's more of a gimmick anyways. If I was you, I'd just work on getting the head on your imp as exciting as the overall physique.

On 11/26/2023 at 2:12 AM, BaianãoDoido said:

is too late to say this 

 

Hi the original doo m IMP SFX with this menacing model made me crack up it really sounds funny to me with this model but maybe Im just brain damaged,, I think its best to come up with new SFX other than that the mdodel looks good to me but I personally always prefer sprites

Work in progress ShotgunGuy have some inspiration in body tipe like doom comic  

Ultimately, the ideal way to enhance the graphics for an old game is to create assets that compliment those of the original. These models are several orders of magnitude more detailed than the surrounding geometry and textures. What artistic purpose does this serve?

It's also worth noting that, in the absence of light sources, the sector lights will only provide ambient light for a given model, completely flattening it out. This is worsened by the lack of PBR as the models appear to use diffuse textures. 

So the question this has me asking is: What is the benefit of having overly detailed 3D models that will averagely be ambient-lit, populating  low-detail environments?

This is nuts, i love the way you made this model but yeah it'd absolutely clash in unmodified maps haha, altho this is a really fun start to seeing 3D being used within the doom engine which i really like when well done, excited to see more!

Also, fellow Brasileiro!!!! 

On 11/26/2023 at 5:57 PM, BaianãoDoido said:

there is also the fact the monsters of doom don't follow rules of proportion 

This also relates to the way doom handles collision i feel, having chunkier models makes them more precise to to the 'chunkier' hitbox i assume, i'm going off Quake rules here which also have these proportions to their models, delightfully chunky

On 12/11/2023 at 2:07 PM, Koko Ricky said:

So the question this has me asking is: What is the benefit of having overly detailed 3D models that will averagely be ambient-lit, populating  low-detail environments?

I agree that polygon models are an ill-fit for classic doom. However, flat sprites look bad at extreme vertical angles with OpenGL rendering, a solution that's coherent with doom's aesthetic would be to draw different sprites when viewed from different vertical angles. Hopefully there's someone passionate enough to code this up, I'm not bothered enough to parse through gzdoom's github. 

Voxel Doom largely if not entirely resolves this, as they are 1:1 replications of the sprites. The only things not currently covered are some of the projectiles. Polygonal models will inevitably either look overly realistic with proper proportions, or awkwardly caryoonish if the squashed look is maintained. 

You've got great modeling skills; this would definitely work as part of a massive TC that could somehow generate 3D structure from wall textures by analyzing the surroundings (i.e. placing rails by height drops into nukage, decorations by computer terminals, etc.) to generatively upscale maps.

12 hours ago, Koko Ricky said:

Voxel Doom largely if not entirely resolves this, as they are 1:1 replications of the sprites. The only things not currently covered are some of the projectiles. Polygonal models will inevitably either look overly realistic with proper proportions, or awkwardly caryoonish if the squashed look is maintained. 

I personally don't like voxels, they just don't carry the same detail and charm as flat sprites - the added depth breaks the immersion if you know what I mean, case in point:

On 12/12/2023 at 8:34 AM, TerryMastermind said:

I agree that polygon models are an ill-fit for classic doom. However, flat sprites look bad at extreme vertical angles with OpenGL rendering, a solution that's coherent with doom's aesthetic would be to draw different sprites when viewed from different vertical angles. Hopefully there's someone passionate enough to code this up, I'm not bothered enough to parse through gzdoom's github. 

that'd be nuts, i'd love to see vertical sprite rotation but it'd also have to be used creatively to make it worth it, maybe having 'glass panels' that enemies can stand on top of or below you so you get that full verticality, would be interesting to 'force' that verticality in such an engine