NO MORE 3D CURSED MODELS FOR DOOM

2 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

I agree completely, that's why I said he shouldn't give up on it if he enjoys it. The only time I'd tell someone to stop working on something is when you have a newbie mapper with an in-progress map that's broken or something. People should make things like this first and foremost because they enjoy it, not to make other people happy. In the end, it makes for a better product and everyone else will enjoy it more.

 

Also, I have a question/suggestion, sorry if it seems like I'm being nosy or anything:

 

Why is it that people who are into modeling, and obviously knowledgeable about modeling, always want to recreate the stock Doom enemies? Why not create your own monsters/objects/weapons/whatever so they can be used as custom content? There are ways to make interesting 3D modeled enemies that actually work and look good, but it seems rare. For example, you could create a statue with a gaping mouth that could shoot fireballs or something, or a kind of turret, or something along those lines (probably more creative than those examples though) that would require little animation (or even none at all). You could even just create decorations or something.

 

Is there some reason why this doesn't ever seem to happen? Are people just not interested/stuck on the stock monsters idea? Does it happen and I'm just not seeing it? I'm aware of some wads with 3D models like that PC-frying tower in Eviternity, but it seems to me that it's untapped potential that's being used to attempt to recreate the original demons instead. And please realize I'm not saying this to insinuate that OP or anyone else should be doing anything other than what they enjoy doing, I'm not saying anyone owes anything to the community or any of that, I'm just curious. My knowledge of Doom and all that stuff on a technical level is below par for this place so I'm probably just ignorant and missing something.

The answer is quite simple: it's because Doom enemies are iconic.

It's not just that...it seems that most modding communities are going to create content that is closely correlated to the art and assets of the original game. If you look at communities as diverse as Blood, Sonic, Mario, Wolfenstein, etc., there isn't a very strong tendency toward creating entirely new monster rosters or player characters.

1 hour ago, Koko Ricky said:

It's not just that...it seems that most modding communities are going to create content that is closely correlated to the art and assets of the original game. If you look at communities as diverse as Blood, Sonic, Mario, Wolfenstein, etc., there isn't a very strong tendency toward creating entirely new monster rosters or player characters.

You're absolutely right, but I just don't get it. Realm667 is full of sprites that wouldn't fit in Classic DOOM - monsters, weapons, decorations, items. People make music for wads that would make people bust a gut if it was in the original games. I just don't understand why the rarest kinds of talent all seem to gravitate towards the most common ideas. To use music as another example - most musicians I've come across that use real instruments to make music for DOOM (again, a rarity) usually end up doing the same thing - recreating the songs from the original game. I think there are plenty of things you can do with live instruments that could be used successfully in a wad. Instead, you just get a different flavor of something that tends to feel more like a novelty.

I'd love to see someone just work on 3D modeled decorations - they can still adhere to the same design ethos and atmosphere as the original games, or they can be something completely different. Either way, I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

5 hours ago, Grieferus said:

The answer is quite simple: it's because Doom enemies are iconic.

For me, that's part of the problem - the enemies are so iconic, so familiar and well-known, that any attempt to replicate them is always going to look off to me. And like I said earlier, to me it usually comes across as more of a novelty than anything. The SSG and BFG are also iconic, yet there seems to be a dozen 3D roidraging-mutant-gingerbread-man-Imps, awkwardly twerking or walking or breathing in place, for every attempt at making a Three-Dee-Bee-Eff-Gee.

8 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

 

Tens toda a razão, mas eu não percebo. Realm667 está cheio de sprites que não cabem no clássico DOOM - monstros, armas, decorações, itens. As pessoas fazem música para wads que fariam as pessoas quebrarem um intestino se fosse nos jogos originais. Eu simplesmente não entendo por que os tipos mais raros de talento parecem gravitar em direção às idéias mais comuns. Para usar a música como outro exemplo - a maioria dos músicos que me deparei usam instrumentos reais para fazer música para DOOM (novamente, eu não sei, uma raridade) geralmente acaba fazendo a mesma coisa - recriando as músicas do jogo original. Eu acho que há muitas coisas que você pode fazer com instrumentos ao vivo que poderiam ser usados com sucesso em um wad. Em vez disso, você só tem um sabor diferente de algo que tende a se sentir mais como uma novidade.

 

Eu adoraria ver alguém apenas trabalhar em decorações modeladas em 3D - eles ainda podem aderir ao mesmo ethos de design e atmosfera dos jogos originais, ou podem ser algo completamente diferente. De qualquer forma, não vejo razão para que não funcione.

 

 

Para mim, isso é parte do problema - os inimigos são tão icônicos, tão familiares e bem conhecidos, que qualquer tentativa de replicá-los sempre vai olhar para mim. E, como eu disse anteriormente, para mim, geralmente é mais uma novidade do que qualquer coisa. O SSG e o BFG também são icônicos, mas parece haver uma dúzia de Imps 3D roidraging-mutant-gingerbread-man, desajeitadamente twerking ou andando ou respirando no lugar, para cada tentativa de fazer um Three-Dee-Bee-Eff-Gee.

Some creations for 3 months ago, when I have potato computer 2gb ram

I have made some animations of brutal deaths, no legs, no head, no torso, work in progress need more blood in animations   

I managed to make a dismemberment animation, there are 4 animations compatible with both the shotgun guy and the zombieman, I also fixed the walking animation, it's more fluid, I'm still working on the textures when they die to make it more realistic

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Z3PX6vSyY

So to be brutally honest, neither the models nor the textures in that video look good. Everything appears flat and dull, with no depth or contrast. 

as it's own thing, it has potential. for Doom, not so great...

4 hours ago, Koko Ricky said:

So to be brutally honest, neither the models nor the textures in that video look good. Everything appears flat and dull, with no depth or contrast. 

ok boomer

I get and largely agree with the critiques repeatedly brought up in this thread, but maybe the people who are regularly popping up in here to voice them could find something to do other than pick this one guy's project as the venue to re-litigate the entire mid-2000s garish 3D reskin era and subsequent backlash.

1 hour ago, Gifty said:

I get and largely agree with the critiques repeatedly brought up in this thread, but maybe the people who are regularly popping up in here to voice them could find something to do other than pick this one guy's project as the venue to re-litigate the entire mid-2000s garish 3D reskin era and subsequent backlash.

I'll readily admit that I'm letting this bother me because I think the skill involved would be more well-received in a different community where that art style would be a good fit. I'll back off.

19 hours ago, Koko Ricky said:

I'll readily admit that I'm letting this bother me because I think the skill involved would be more well-received in a different community where that art style would be a good fit. I'll back off.

same. I'll stand by what I said, this could probably go better for a TC or a Brutal-type mod.

22 hours ago, Gifty said:

I get and largely agree with the critiques repeatedly brought up in this thread, but maybe the people who are regularly popping up in here to voice them could find something to do other than pick this one guy's project as the venue to re-litigate the entire mid-2000s garish 3D reskin era and subsequent backlash. 

I halfway resonate with what you're saying-- I mostly bite my tongue when I see threads like this these days-- but I want to push back on the idea that the people offering candid (and, frankly, astute) feedback are somehow the ones stepping out of line.
 

I don't think anyone got up in the morning the day this thread was posted and went "man, I hope today I get an excuse to re-litigate the garish 3D reskin era."  Nobody went hacking into OP's computer to dig up WIP designs to publicly roast them for.

People like Koko Ricky are making these posts because someone posted a thread that catalyzed the topic back into relevance.  In a public forum.  Why does that not deserve a share of the blame for re-opening the litigation?

On 12/29/2023 at 11:34 AM, BaianãoDoido said:

 

 

im built like this fr

On 1/9/2024 at 8:45 AM, Denzel20 said:

only now I could understand this meme after searching chatgpt for the explanation, I will share my humor from my country too

On 1/9/2024 at 3:45 AM, Denzel20 said:

I didn't expect to see this loquendero in the doomworld, but here we are.

On 1/17/2024 at 10:55 AM, BaianãoDoido said:

I managed to make a dismemberment animation, there are 4 animations compatible with both the shotgun guy and the zombieman, I also fixed the walking animation, it's more fluid, I'm still working on the textures when they die to make it more realistic

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

The gibs look like sea urchins. I also feel that the protrusions will not look good during gameplay, as such fine details will produce a lot of ugly aliasing/shimmering.

This 3D modeling project is not being discontinued; I am merely redirecting it towards something better and more widely accepted by the community. It will take some time, but a superior and less mediocre outcome will emerge. My current idea is to adapt the 3D version of Brutal 19 (because it is simpler and lighter). It will be a package of 3D models only, adapting to the original game (weapons, monster dismemberments, and fatalities – yes, I can do all of that in 3D, with animations similar to the original mod). I will release it without any issues related to third-party materials because it won't be a mod created on top of another mod, but rather a complementary mod. Of course, it will work with the base and scripts of the original mod. If anyone wants to help or learn more, my Discord is luizhatanaka#7508.

Well, it seems we have some "experts" around here who excel at pointing out flaws but can't do anything beyond that. Perhaps they are more interested in talking than actually contributing. It's amusing how criticism becomes sharper when there are no real skills to back it up. Looks like we've got a bunch of armchair critics here, ready to judge without ever getting their hands dirty. In the end, real experience speaks louder than empty words.

female zombieman

On 1/25/2024 at 2:51 AM, BaianãoDoido said:

Well, it seems we have some "experts" around here who excel at pointing out flaws but can't do anything beyond that. Perhaps they are more interested in talking than actually contributing. It's amusing how criticism becomes sharper when there are no real skills to back it up. Looks like we've got a bunch of armchair critics here, ready to judge without ever getting their hands dirty. In the end, real experience speaks louder than empty words.

Very sorry but, this feels very childish. I will say that the textures look very dry. They clearly need more material work. The newer models aren't the best but not the worst. The big thing these mods don't get is the fact that the game's geometry is very low quality. Especially when they opt for Brutal Doom as base. Dismissing criticism doesn't really get one to places.

He personally messaged me to stop replying to this thread. 

20 hours ago, DaliVinci said:

Very sorry but, this feels very childish. I will say that the textures look very dry. They clearly need more material work. The newer models aren't the best but not the worst. The big thing these mods don't get is the fact that the game's geometry is very low quality. Especially when they opt for Brutal Doom as base. Dismissing criticism doesn't really get one to places.

It's funny I've never seen your mod around here, like I said, only sofa critics

13 hours ago, BaianãoDoido said:

It's funny I've never seen your mod around here, like I said, only sofa critics

You haven't seen my mod around here, because they are WIPs. I don't like to announce things early. I also contribute to other projects indirectly.
Anyways, if you maybe include a retake of these levels, these may look really good. Artstyle clash is the biggest problem with these and I really like how you're handling the pistol.

You are talented. Do not listen to critics who would like to impose you their vision of the game. Believe in what you want to do and have fun. Like some others in this thread, I have serious doubts about the relevance of full 3D models in Doom, and questions about the possibility to animate all this smoothly. But I fully respect your dedication to this. This game evolved because people thought differently and wanted, step by step, to remove some limits and create new stuff. And I suppose this is exactly what you are doing. Big-up, don't give up.