[Community Project] Doom 2 Minus Doom (development thread)

11 hours ago, janiform said:

MAP24 - claimed by Sneezy McGlassface

Working on it. Making interesting combat with that limited roster is surprisingly challenging. With the exception of chaingunners, it's all mid tier guys. They made doom 2 stand above the original but they aren't very interesting on their own, i think. That's not a complaint about the project theme btw, just an explanation why it takes so long. 

8 minutes ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

Working on it. Making interesting combat with that limited roster is surprisingly challenging. With the exception of chaingunners, it's all mid tier guys. They made doom 2 stand above the original but they aren't very interesting on their own, i think. That's not a complaint about the project theme btw, just an explanation why it takes so long. 

i believe in u :)

I submitted my map a while ago. Here's a fresh link to it.

Map 13: Uptown

https://www.mediafire.com/file/y67a08q4cwg1p26/Uptown.wad/file

@Rorix@Andrea Rovenski@Kuro_mahoh@DoctorNuriel Awesome, thanks for the update!
@Sneezy McGlassFace Thanks for the update. Using only Doom 2 enemies definitely results in different combat dynamics. One of my hopes for this project is that in using Doom 2 content in isolation we can learn something interesting (unusual enemy combinations, texture usage, etc.) that could be applied to other works.

@Eon ToadNice! I've tested this new version and everything looks good. I really like the monolithic architecture in the final section of this map. Should this be considered final?

On 12/14/2023 at 10:44 PM, janiform said:

@Demonic MeatballHaha, noted! If I end up making some tracks I'll also try to avoid plagiarizing anachronistically. Thank you so much for all the tracks you're making for this project!

 

Since we're nearing the project's previous deadline, I wanted to check in with the contributors who haven't completed their maps yet. The maps and mappers in question are listed below. Some of you have posted recently, others haven't. If you wouldn't mind popping in for a status update/screenshots/WIP uploads, that would be awesome!

• MAP05 - claimed by @Kuro_mahoh
• MAP06 - claimed by @Anarkzie
• MAP07 - claimed by @riderr3
• MAP11- claimed by @big smoke
• MAP12 - claimed by @NeedHealth
• MAP13 - claimed by @Eon Toad
• MAP14 - claimed by @Rorix
• MAP16 - claimed by @Fryuko
• MAP18 - claimed by @GamingGargoyle
• MAP22 - claimed by @Pegleg
• MAP24 - claimed by @Sneezy McGlassFace
• MAP25 - claimed by @RileyXY1
• MAP26 - claimed by @DoctorNuriel
• MAP28 - claimed by @Andrea Rovenski
• MAP31 (secret exit to MAP32) - claimed by @Bochnik Chleba
• MAP32 - claimed by @SilverMiner

 

Sorry but have you ever read my post? My map is already finished in august. Link to post

Please update the main post and add my map. Hope you not missed other people's posts.

@riderr3Oof, very sorry about that! A lot of IRL stuff came up for me around that time and I'm just now getting back to Doom stuff. I've updated the main post and will test this out as soon as I can.

On 12/14/2023 at 1:44 PM, janiform said:

@Demonic MeatballHaha, noted! If I end up making some tracks I'll also try to avoid plagiarizing anachronistically. Thank you so much for all the tracks you're making for this project!

 

Since we're nearing the project's previous deadline, I wanted to check in with the contributors who haven't completed their maps yet. The maps and mappers in question are listed below. Some of you have posted recently, others haven't. If you wouldn't mind popping in for a status update/screenshots/WIP uploads, that would be awesome!

• MAP05 - claimed by @Kuro_mahoh
• MAP06 - claimed by @Anarkzie
• MAP07 - claimed by @riderr3
• MAP11- claimed by @big smoke
• MAP12 - claimed by @NeedHealth
• MAP13 - claimed by @Eon Toad
• MAP14 - claimed by @Rorix
• MAP16 - claimed by @Fryuko
• MAP18 - claimed by @GamingGargoyle
• MAP22 - claimed by @Pegleg
• MAP24 - claimed by @Sneezy McGlassFace
• MAP25 - claimed by @RileyXY1
• MAP26 - claimed by @DoctorNuriel
• MAP28 - claimed by @Andrea Rovenski
• MAP31 (secret exit to MAP32) - claimed by @Bochnik Chleba
• MAP32 - claimed by @SilverMiner

 

gaminggargoyle already sent a WIP for his map18. i understand about the irl stuff im just letting u know

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2740020

8 hours ago, Eon Toad said:

I submitted my map a while ago. Here's a fresh link to it.

 

Map 13: Uptown

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/y67a08q4cwg1p26/Uptown.wad/file

thanks for the new link.

was actually thinking of asking u about it because the last link was invalid according to mediafire. my advice for next time is to put the wad in a zip folder since doomworld has no issue with zip uploading, rather than using mediafire which isn't as reliable

@riderr3This is a really fun, classic feeling map. Clever use of the MAP07-specific tags, nice Doomy puzzling. Thanks for submitting a map to this project!

@scientifikgeniusThanks!

Also, I've updated the assets wad in the first post to add the most recent MIDIs by @Demonic Meatball.

On 12/14/2023 at 2:44 PM, janiform said:

@Demonic MeatballHaha, noted! If I end up making some tracks I'll also try to avoid plagiarizing anachronistically. Thank you so much for all the tracks you're making for this project!

 

Since we're nearing the project's previous deadline, I wanted to check in with the contributors who haven't completed their maps yet. The maps and mappers in question are listed below. Some of you have posted recently, others haven't. If you wouldn't mind popping in for a status update/screenshots/WIP uploads, that would be awesome!

• MAP05 - claimed by @Kuro_mahoh
• MAP06 - claimed by @Anarkzie
• MAP07 - claimed by @riderr3
• MAP11- claimed by @big smoke
• MAP12 - claimed by @NeedHealth
• MAP13 - claimed by @Eon Toad
• MAP14 - claimed by @Rorix
• MAP16 - claimed by @Fryuko
• MAP18 - claimed by @GamingGargoyle
• MAP22 - claimed by @Pegleg
• MAP24 - claimed by @Sneezy McGlassFace
• MAP25 - claimed by @RileyXY1
• MAP26 - claimed by @DoctorNuriel
• MAP28 - claimed by @Andrea Rovenski
• MAP31 (secret exit to MAP32) - claimed by @Bochnik Chleba
• MAP32 - claimed by @SilverMiner

 

I already submitted mine earlier and made plenty of edits to it.

Wad looks nice, Me hope this goes far!

On 12/14/2023 at 2:44 PM, janiform said:

MAP22 - claimed by @Pegleg

I've started and stopped a few times, but in mid-January 2024, this is at the top of my list of maps. I have a plan, and I'm still on board.

@janiform I'm good with that being my final version.

@Eon Toad Awesome, I've updated the OP. We're up to 18 COMPLETED MAPS!

@RileyXY1 Thanks, Riley! Have you had a chance to look at Demonic Meatball's post here?: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2692735 There's a good suggestion here for an alternative to the large cubes above doors.

@Pegleg Thanks for the update!

@Grungo Much appreciated, Grungo!

I've made a small, mostly cosmetic update to my MAP23 to take advantage of Doom 2's earthier textures:MAP23_Abyss_-_janiform V4.zip

Update on map14.     

I haven't been able to work on it much, since I've been sick (Covid and then the flu!).        

I got back to it today, and, well... I hate it. Since map14 is small, and not very difficult, I think that I can create a new one by March.       

However, I've also decided to post what I've done so far, in case anyone else wants to finish it, or offer critiques.

@Rorix FWIW, I think this map is pretty solid. The progression is interesting (though maybe it could be signposted a little more for dunces like me) and it makes thoughtful use of the Doom 2 resources, which is the most important thing in this project! Obviously there are some rather unfinished spaces in the map, but there's something a bit liminal about them, especially the building with the stair-raising switch in the subroom.

When I started this project, I hadn't considered that using only Doom 2 resources (and thus Wolfenstein resources) could create the implication of some dystopian nazi future on Earth, but it's an interesting subtext.

On 1/6/2024 at 10:18 PM, janiform said:

When I started this project, I hadn't considered that using only Doom 2 resources (and thus Wolfenstein resources) could create the implication of some dystopian nazi future on Earth, but it's an interesting subtext.

 

tbf i guess no one really found a reason to use the wolf tex until the restriction of only doom2 tex had been revealed lol. adds a bit of experimentation. it proves that our creative limitations can be our best creative opportunities. 

could maybe also tie in to a doom-wolf connection?? maybe this is the TRUE sequel to new colossus?? lololol i joke but yeah 

Finally I have a release candidate 1! I'm super sorry it took this long, I've burned out like five times while making this damn map. It's been an extremely valuable learning experience for me, though. It was great being a part of this. Making full use of doom 2 exclusive assets is quite the challenge. I know the OP said no large maps, I gauge this to be about the size of doom 2's map24.

Any and all constructive feedback appreciated, as always.

glhf <3

• author: Sneezy McGlassface
• title: Not Chasm
• slot: map24
• download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LJt2y2gbCx7T4PcfABgBjtWuXyulv2up
• difficulties implemented: yes + platforming is easier on hntr/hmp
• co-op: starts only
• midi: Legends of Kyrandia (1992) - Exploring Castle Kyrandia
• screenshots:

Alpha version of Map14 is done. Any and all critiques are welcome.

@Sneezy McGlassFaceThis is a fantastic map! It really feels like a journey through a vast cave complex, looks great, and has a wonderful atmosphere. Despite its size I never felt lost. The secrets are clever, and the map feels extremely Doom 2, which is the most important thing. On principle I'm somewhat skeptical about music from another game, but it works really well here - see music discussion below. I did want to point out some forbidden Doom 1 asset use:

Things:

• single-barrel shotgun (next to backpack)

Flats:

• flat1

Textures:

• gray1
• tekwall1
• tekwall4

@RorixThis thing has transformed! I really like this entangled canyon crawl. Despite how much you've expanded and changed this map, you've also clarified the progression a lot. I love the puzzle of interconnected secrets built around that windowed corridor. This map evokes the American southwest really well (even more so with RSKY1, though it also looks great with RSKY2). Nice job avoiding the forbidden Doom 1 resources! Aside from difficulty settings and co-op starts, I might suggest introducing more variety in the outdoor area textures by using some of the other brown stone/natural textures for different sections of the map. Thank you for submitting another great map for this project.

REGARDING CUSTOM MUSIC:
I've had mixed feelings about how music should work for this project since the beginning. Initially, the rules didn't allow new music - under the rationale that you can't get more Doom 2 than the actual music from Doom 2 - but I relented after several mappers said they'd prefer to choose their own music. I've always been uncertain about this since, for example, music from Hexen is not very Doom 2, and the spirit of the project certainly wouldn't allow use of any other resources (like textures or sprites) from another game - not even Doom 1! But then @Demonic Meatball started submitting fantastic original MIDIs that sound very Doom 2 but aren't the Bobby Prince tracks we've all heard a million times. However, I don't know how mappers who have already submitted their maps with custom music would feel about having original music from Demonic Meatball replacing their selections. This is a community project, so I'll ask you all: what do you think would be the best musical choice for the spirit of this project?

• Leaving the Doom 2 soundtrack unreplaced
• Anything goes custom music
• Original music in the Doom 2 style by Demonic Meatball
• Something else?

27 minutes ago, janiform said:

This is a fantastic map! It really feels like a journey through a vast cave complex, looks great, and has a wonderful atmosphere. Despite its size I never felt lost. The secrets are clever, and the map feels extremely Doom 2, which is the most important thing. On principle I'm somewhat skeptical about music from another game, but it works really well here - see music discussion below. I did want to point out some forbidden Doom 1 asset use

thanks, glad you like it :)

The issues are now fixed. Gray1 and Flat1 are my defaults, so there were leftovers everywhere that I didn't notice. Tekwall1 and 4 I legit didn't notice to be in the banned section, and mapped with them. That's now corrected. And shotgun replaced with an ammo clip.

Now, regarding the music.. I'm a bitch when it comes to that because I feel it has a huge impact on player's experience. I've listened to hundreds of midis before I chose the Kyrandia one, and I chose it because it's subdued, dark, yet somehow adventurous. Makes me feel spooked and at the same time intrigued, and it's not overbearing when repeated for 20-40 minutes people will probably spend listening to it on repeat while playing the map. It sets the tone, pun intended, of the whole map. There will be scares, and mystery but it wants to be explored, not to terrify.

The songs Demonic Meatball submitted are great, I love them, and I'd love to use them in maps but I don't really feel any of them really fits this particular map. Though the one of those that fits best is D_STLKS3.mid.

Personally, Doom2 music is nice but we've collectively heard it a billion times, that's a no-go for me. It may be technically in the spirit of the project to use the original tracks but in terms of player experience, I strongly suggest using any other music. Especially when this is explicitly not a TWID-style project. The idea is appreciating the spirit of Doom2, correct? If it were appreciating Doom 2, we already have the iwad. Nothing gets more Doom 2 than Doom2.wad

So. I give you two versions of the map. Both have the doom1 assets issues fixed (best to my knowledge), one is with the Kyrandia midi I chose originally, and the other is with the wonderful DemonicMeatball's midi I mentioned above. I give it to you to decide what you as project lead find better fit. How's that sound? I won't get mad either way, I understand people may not care as much or be as affected as I think they would. It's cool, I get it. The choice is yours.

RC2-demonicmeatball music: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d3ll7zNEI7QRaFeHvsMomsq54R48phFD

RC2-kyrandia music: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1va7SpexLSQPaI5YyQPXEyU3tt6g59bHs

Map14 is done. I added more player starts, deathmatch starts, and some multiplayer monsters, weapons, and ammo. I might add a little more detail to it later, but I'll call this one finished for now.

On 12/12/2023 at 6:05 PM, Demonic Meatball said:

 

Thanks, it's the best compliment you could have given me. My plan was to score the whole wad (or at least all the maps that come without a midi attached), but you can join in on the fun if you want ! I use Sekaiju to make midis.

Btw, I'm replaying the map you posted a few weeks ago, expect a rundown in the near future. After that, I have exams tho, so don't count on me for the next month and a half.

 

Also, "minus the plagiarism"... Uh... Sorry to break it to ya, but

 

Intermission == Reborn - Slayer

The Sacred Texts == Hollow - Pantera

Demons n Dem guns == Let the Blood Run Red - Thor

Shawn Lost the Shotgun == Blood Red - Slayer (Drums)

666 Feet Under == Junkhead - Alice in Chains

Mount Mystery == Untitled - Alice in Chains

Mancubus Moshpit == Mutilation - Death

Watcher of the Damned == Among the Living - Anthrax

 

Note how I specifically targetted stuff Bobby could have used in '94, so uh... yeah I don't know where I was going with that remark.

Not sure if you knew this but Bobby Prince actually did a version of Junkhead for Doom, it just went unused.

@Sneezy McGlassFace Thanks for the update for this great map! I forgot to mention this before, but could you add some deathmatch starts? Once they're in I'll be happy to mark this complete. It doesn't surprise me to learn that you selected the Kyrandia track with care, because it fits really well, and thank you for sharing your insights into the selection process. I'm going to say we keep the Kyrandia track.

@Rorix Thanks for the updates, and for going above and beyond with multiplayer content. This is a really fun map! I'll mark it complete. Does this map have a name?

26 minutes ago, janiform said:

Thanks for the update for this great map! I forgot to mention this before, but could you add some deathmatch starts? Once they're in I'll be happy to mark this complete. It doesn't surprise me to learn that you selected the Kyrandia track with care, because it fits really well, and thank you for sharing your insights into the selection process. I'm going to say we keep the Kyrandia track.

Sure thing, here are DM starts and some shotguns :)

RC3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HHfdh--ChSl4bYGAyKTJ7nwmlcFigFe6

Great, thanks! We're now at 20 completed maps!

Added some more detail and decoration to map14. This is the final version. Let's call it "The inner sanctum".

@Rorix Awesome, thanks! It's been really cool to see this map develop from its first incarnation to the final product. The extra detail looks great and makes good use of Doom 2's nature textures. I've updated the first post.

I wanted to check in with the following mappers, who haven't posted in a while - how goes the mapping?:

• MAP06 - claimed by @Anarkzie
• MAP11- claimed by @big smoke
• MAP12 - claimed by @NeedHealth
• MAP16 - claimed by @Fryuko
• MAP31 (secret exit to MAP32) - claimed by @Bochnik Chleba
• MAP32 - claimed by @SilverMiner

17 hours ago, janiform said:

@Rorix Awesome, thanks! It's been really cool to see this map develop from its first incarnation to the final product. The extra detail looks great and makes good use of Doom 2's nature textures. I've updated the first post.

 

I wanted to check in with the following mappers, who haven't posted in a while - how goes the mapping?:

 

• MAP06 - claimed by @Anarkzie
• MAP11- claimed by @big smoke
• MAP12 - claimed by @NeedHealth
• MAP16 - claimed by @Fryuko
• MAP31 (secret exit to MAP32) - claimed by @Bochnik Chleba
• MAP32 - claimed by @SilverMiner

I've been busy with other CPs and haven't made much progress on my map so far, but I'm still planning to finish it before the deadline. I will try to check-in soon with some screenshots :)

@Bochnik ChlebaSounds good. Thanks for the update!

Any updates, @Anarkzie @big smoke @NeedHealth @Fryuko @SilverMiner?