I Think You Should Marble -{MBF21} - 10 maps (IDGAMES))

Congrats on the release! Sadly I wasn't able to give beta feedback when I had the chance (map 01's last fight kicked my ass seven ways to Sunday), but I can attest the whole set looks sharp as hell and plays great so far.

Also, bump so other people check it out. :P

Played through the first couple of maps and enjoying it so far. Challenging fights without being unfair. Several of the larger fights seem fairly generous with health. It does occasionally feel like a linear sequence of lock in fights, but that does seem to be what the set is going for. I think my favourite fight was map01's finale. Rapid blasting infinite rockets while dodging the revs rockets and cacos blocking one side and the flood of imps on the other was quite fun. Least favourite area was the large sparse cave in map02. It's not really difficult, but a little tedious picking off all the perched enemies.

Here's dsda-demo for the first two maps: itysm-ryiron.zip. Keen to keep playing this.

We're allowed to shoot the demons cause they ain't got no souls

Marble is underrated

3 hours ago, ryiron said:

Played through the first couple of maps and enjoying it so far. Challenging fights without being unfair. Several of the larger fights seem fairly generous with health. It does occasionally feel like a linear sequence of lock in fights, but that does seem to be what the set is going for. I think my favourite fight was map01's finale. Rapid blasting infinite rockets while dodging the revs rockets and cacos blocking one side and the flood of imps on the other was quite fun. Least favourite area was the large sparse cave in map02. It's not really difficult, but a little tedious picking off all the perched enemies.

 

Here's dsda-demo for the first two maps: itysm-ryiron.zip. Keen to keep playing this.

I do love my lock in fights tbh.  Maps4, 5, and 8 are not as linear, 3 is linear but has a more satisfying loop I think.  Glad you like it so far though.

10 hours ago, Matt Eldrydge said:

Congrats on the release! Sadly I wasn't able to give beta feedback when I had the chance (map 01's last fight kicked my ass seven ways to Sunday), but I can attest the whole set looks sharp as hell and plays great so far.

 

Also, bump so other people check it out. :P

Thanks man.  Yeah the end of map01 may be a too steep Increase in difficulty.  I did iterate on it a lot and liked where it ended up though.

2 hours ago, Weird Sandwich said:

We're allowed to shoot the demons cause they ain't got no souls

Omg I asked in the 2 doom discords I frequent and no one seemed too know the show.  So big shout out to you lol

I hope these maps don't contain any sloppy steaks. I USED to be a real piece of shit.

1 hour ago, LVENdead said:

I hope these maps don't contain any sloppy steaks. I USED to be a real piece of shit.

Well hope you don't look at the Title of map07.... a baby won't yell at you for playing it though.   

Played through the first seven maps of this tonight, had a total blast.  I love the look of the maps, and the fights are engaging, a bit spicy, but very fair.

One thing I noticed, there are two red skull keys in the red skull key fight in map 6.  There's one with the cyberdemon, and one on the altar surrounded by eyeballs.  Other than that, I haven't noticed many rough edges.  Awesome set, and I can't wait to finish it!

Play through of map03: itysm03-ryiron.zip (dsda-doom 0.25.6).

Lots of cool fights in this one. Highlight was the trench with the viles and imps behind the fences. I like the use of the stairs for dodging rev rockets in the second phase. I found a couple of minor cheeses for fights, like hiding behind the grills to get the cybers to kill all the pain elementals in the plasma gun fight. I also got a bit lost in a few places. Sometimes the way forward is a bit hard to spot. For example in the crusher fight, the small thin lift is hard to see and looks exactly like the one heading back. It's especially confusing when the maps sometimes do need you to back track, so I sometimes wasn't sure which way to go.

8 hours ago, ProfBloom said:

Played through the first seven maps of this tonight, had a total blast.  I love the look of the maps, and the fights are engaging, a bit spicy, but very fair.

 

One thing I noticed, there are two red skull keys in the red skull key fight in map 6.  There's one with the cyberdemon, and one on the altar surrounded by eyeballs.  Other than that, I haven't noticed many rough edges.  Awesome set, and I can't wait to finish it!

Oh yeah, I remember not sure where I wanted the red key, I forgot to delete the one under the cyber.  In testing I could never see it because of sprite overlap and thought running up to it randomly was bad. 

4 hours ago, ryiron said:

Play through of map03: itysm03-ryiron.zip (dsda-doom 0.25.6).

 

Lots of cool fights in this one. Highlight was the trench with the viles and imps behind the fences. I like the use of the stairs for dodging rev rockets in the second phase. I found a couple of minor cheeses for fights, like hiding behind the grills to get the cybers to kill all the pain elementals in the plasma gun fight. I also got a bit lost in a few places. Sometimes the way forward is a bit hard to spot. For example in the crusher fight, the small thin lift is hard to see and looks exactly like the one heading back. It's especially confusing when the maps sometimes do need you to back track, so I sometimes wasn't sure which way to go.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback.  I plan to change that lift now and maybe add a candle or change the lighting to make to more noticable.  Also in the demo for map02 I was really surprised you got the secret megasphere by carefully jumping.  I suck at doom platforming and could never do it, it was meant to be an archvile jump secret lol.  But good to know if you got skills you can get it later. 

Played through the first two maps and a chunk of the third. This is some good stuff.

6 hours ago, Treehouseminis said:

Also in the demo for map02 I was really surprised you got the secret megasphere by carefully jumping.  I suck at doom platforming and could never do it, it was meant to be an archvile jump secret lol.  But good to know if you got skills you can get it later. 

I only noticed the megasphere after killing the archive and realised it was probably meant to be a vile jump. Gave the jump a go anyway. It’s an sr50, and the angle is a bit tricky. I was pretty surprised it worked too. 

Map04: itysm04-ryiron.zip

I like the fight where you get the infinite rocket launcher, even if it took me an embarrassing number of attempts to get. The area denial archviles and cyber combo work well, and the mega can get hard to collect if you can't clear space. Fun fight. I found that once I had the infinite rocket launcher most other fights were pretty easy. The plasma rifle and bfg aren't really needed, they are mostly just useful to avoid face rocketing especially with pain elementals. The glowing walls fight in the blue key area for example wasn't hard at all, but it took a long time for all the enemies to spawn in. The same fight with the regular rocket launcher would be a fair bit more difficult I think.

The finale is pretty cool. I nearly got it very early, but managed to cop a cyber rocket and face-rocket myself on a lost soul with five enemies left :-/. It then took another embarrassing number of attempts to beat. I know that I could have held off on hitting the switches that release the viles and pain elementals, but where is the fun in that?

15 hours ago, ryiron said:

Map04: itysm04-ryiron.zip

 

I like the fight where you get the infinite rocket launcher, even if it took me an embarrassing number of attempts to get. The area denial archviles and cyber combo work well, and the mega can get hard to collect if you can't clear space. Fun fight. I found that once I had the infinite rocket launcher most other fights were pretty easy. The plasma rifle and bfg aren't really needed, they are mostly just useful to avoid face rocketing especially with pain elementals. The glowing walls fight in the blue key area for example wasn't hard at all, but it took a long time for all the enemies to spawn in. The same fight with the regular rocket launcher would be a fair bit more difficult I think.

 

The finale is pretty cool. I nearly got it very early, but managed to cop a cyber rocket and face-rocket myself on a lost soul with five enemies left :-/. It then took another embarrassing number of attempts to beat. I know that I could have held off on hitting the switches that release the viles and pain elementals, but where is the fun in that?

 

 

 

Another cool demo.  Yeah This was the first map I designed solely on the infinite rocket launcher.  I wasnt sure how far to take some of the fights yet, there were moderate for me in testing.  

Also Updated the wad for RC2.  I added more variation to the lift in map03.  Deleted extra red skull on MAP06  And actually added difficulties to MAP31 because I forgot I never balanced anything on it. 

Demos for maps 5 and 6: itysm-56-ryiron.zip. The demos are for RC1, I'll grab RC2 for the next maps.

Bit more getting lost trying to find progression in the maps. Map05 took me a while to figure out how to even start :-). The pain elemental fight in map05 gave me some grief, and that chaingunner fight is nasty. The finale fights are mostly down to how aggressive you are with the bfg against the viles. Once they are gone each wave is pretty easily handled. Really cool lighting in this area though. I think you can exit the map before the final wave which is maybe not intended?

In map06 it seems that half the enemies don't teleport into the first big fight if you don't make a sound in the first room. Not sure if that is intended to reward players doing the opening fight pacifist? The ssg also didn't teleport in on my first attempt. The first part of the blue key fight can be easily cheesed by running out of the room quickly, then monsters will all pile up at the ledge. In the blue key area I think you get soft-locked if you fall off like an idiot into the blood like I did. Floor isn't damaging and there doesn't seem to be a way back? I also don't quite get the slow floor in the red key wing. It doesn't really make fighting the initial small number of enemies difficult, and it gets removed before the major fight. I thought I was either going to have to try to stay on the marble floor for the main fight, or the switch was only going to raise the slow floor for a short time, so I'd have to keep going back to the switch to stay fast moving. 

I love the final fight in map06. Fun monster herding and rev rocket dodging combat puzzle. I like that the bfg becomes useful, and getting to it requires some work. Putting the revs behind the bars so you need to dodge both them and the cybers to finish out the fight is really clever. I missed a few enemies, guess they were in the secret I missed?

Had a great time with this set!  I can tell there's been improvement since Early Mass, which I also enjoyed.  Some notes in the spoiler:

21 hours ago, Vile said:

Had a great time with this set!  I can tell there's been improvement since Early Mass, which I also enjoyed.  Some notes in the spoiler:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

map07: that classic bug with the arachnotron trigger going off more than once can happen here and unfortunately results in a softlock if it does.  If the raising platforms to the exit can also be made a lift, that would get around it.

 

In general, there are some switches that can be activated through the barriers blocking them.  One example is the switch at the start of map02.  I don't know if any of these instances result in softlocks but it's something to think about.

 

I'd also suggest having a "progress stopper" map in the 10 slot to avoid getting dumped back into the iwad maps.

 

Thanks!  Yeah need to edit map07 now for sure, first time making a "dead simple" map.  I def thought about making a credits map and now I probably will.  Seems the normal thing to do now.  I did that for B L E A K but never got around to it for this, I was just soe excited that the wad was ready for a beta post.

@ryiron won't quote the whole thing for length reasons but yeah I should probably be a little less cryptic with progression.  Ill put some health bonus trail start of map05 or something.  The Chaingunner fight is especially nasty if you go there first instead of last like you did.  Also the last fight was bugged because one of the doors on my voodoo closet was open so the progression was all wonky, I'm fixing that. Idk why never noticed.  

Map06 I need to make the start a shoot trigger and put monster lines around the teleport, I think that's why it doesn't.  There's 3 teleport lines in the closet for the ssg.  The fight you can just leave is intended but not so intended that you can go into the other area completely so I feel like putting bars up now. Also yes there were a few enemies that get activated with a secret. 

Thanks for the demos looking forward to the last few maps! 

On map 2 the teleport destination with tag 84 is set to hard only.

Awes0me Textures 

Marble for the win! these maps look gorgeous, I'm halfway through and it's been a blast. I'm not used to these type of maps but they were still very fun, ended up sticking with UV because while it does push me to my limits the fights feel balanced and doable, doing cleanup with the infinite launcher is satisfying and relaxing at times, it's also refreshing to be using something other than the BFG.

PS: I really liked the starting room for map 04.

Maps 7 and 8: itysm-78-ryiron.zip (recorded against RC2). The map07 demo isn't blind. In my first playthrough I was getting frustrated by the final fight (my skill issue, not bad map design), so took a break.

The opening fights of map07 are pretty chill. I do think the mancubi 666 trigger could be confusing to some players. Some players could skip past the ones in the opening area and then be confused on how to progress later. With mbf21 you could create a second mancubus type, so you only need to kill the ones in the final arena to trigger the 666 tag. The finale was pretty fun once I got past the initial frustration. It's quite easy to get boxed in at the back end of the arena or catch a stray rocket. The second part of the fight is much easier since you have a heap of empty space behind you.

Map08's opener is really cool. Clever use of the low health cyber. I liked the twist on the gallery of hell knights fight, was having a nice relaxing time circling and rocketing until the platform dropped. The arena with the spiders, revs, and the perched archvile is mean. It can be tough to dodge the vile's attacks without copping a face full of rev missiles. Took me a few tries to figure out how to do it. Cool fight. The final arena looks absolutely incredible (all the maps so far have looked amazing). The first wave is a fight for space, and I like that it encourages use of both the rocket launcher for more quickly clearing enemies, and the plasma for pushing through the crowds. The final wave is nerve wracking. The cybers all split up due to in-fighting the barons, but you can quickly get targeted or just catch a stray rocket. Another really clever fight design. Also, thanks for the baron explody button. Unfortunately I missed about fair amount of kills in this map. Maybe in secret fights? I find secret hunting in larger maps like this a bit overwhelming, especially when I was already getting a bit lost just trying to find the regular progression. 

59 minutes ago, ryiron said:

Unfortunately I missed about fair amount of kills in this map. Maybe in secret fights? I find secret hunting in larger maps like this a bit overwhelming, especially when I was already getting a bit lost just trying to find the regular progression. 

Yeah map08 has a secret fight that needs a blue and yellow key. (Clues I'll give the keys are in smaller, filler fight areas.) The switches for them are on the platform right after the starting area to the right.  Only way to get the bfg which makes the final fight a little easier.  I can agree on secret hunting being kinda tiresome but it was my first time ever doing a secret fight and I wanted to make the 2nd to last map a more challenging one all around.  Map09 is a more fast paced finale, just go dont think lol.  I'd also be curious to see a demo of map31 because my par time is almost 30 mins...

But awesome I'll watch these soon!  

I think you really outdid yourself this time. More than anything, this WAD gives off the impression that you can just churn out interesting slaughter setups, and I never felt any lock-in fatigue that I normally feel when there are tons of lock-in based fights, despite nearly the entire WAD being designed around them. This bleeds a lot of of Sunder + Abandon influence in it, particularly in some of the later maps, though its mood is definitely not as overtly somber or invested in making you feel the weight of the world bearing down upon you. I'm not yet sure if I like this or B L E A K more, but I would encourage anyone who liked this WAD to also look at it, just to see that marble experiments are just the latest trick you've added to your already competent skillset. Thanks for another wonderful WAD.

Favorite maps were: 31(!!), 05 (lovely graveyard silliness in this map), 08, and 09.

A full set of playthrough demos on RC2 (-dsdademo + plays back on v0.27.5) - itysm-maribo.zip

10 hours ago, Maribo said:

I think you really outdid yourself this time. More than anything, this WAD gives off the impression that you can just churn out interesting slaughter setups, and I never felt any lock-in fatigue that I normally feel when there are tons of lock-in based fights, despite nearly the entire WAD being designed around them. This bleeds a lot of of Sunder + Abandon influence in it, particularly in some of the later maps, though its mood is definitely not as overtly somber or invested in making you feel the weight of the world bearing down upon you. I'm not yet sure if I like this or B L E A K more, but I would encourage anyone who liked this WAD to also look at it, just to see that marble experiments are just the latest trick you've added to your already competent skillset. Thanks for another wonderful WAD.

 

Favorite maps were: 31(!!), 05 (lovely graveyard silliness in this map), 08, and 09.

 

A full set of playthrough demos on RC2 (-dsdademo + plays back on v0.27.5) - itysm-maribo.zip

Oh wow I have a lot of demos to watch now lol.  Thanks for the small write up/review.  

And yeah I feel the music slightly stole the show when it came to the vibe I wanted to convey.  I do have plans for a more somber wad soon.  Map31 is a secret because it is a more moody atmosphere instead of fast paced more upbeat combat and music. 

On topic of lock in fights its good to know that how I do them doesn't get too tiring.  I think subconsciously I design that way because I watched someone play my first ever map and just cheese a fight I worked hard on and was like ok I need to get better and forcing the player to play how I want them too.  I want to work on more connective layouts, maybe not as many lock in fights, but I don't think I'll ever not do them.

 Maps 9 and 31: itysm-931-ryiron.zip.

I restarted map09 because for some reason on my first attempts I didn't realise I had the infinite rocket launcher and was trying to do it with the ssg and in-fighting (which turns out to be way harder). The hell-knight/revs fight absolutely kicked my ass. I think I had the right strategy, just kept messing up the timing. The previous fight isn't too hard, so it should be possible to start with 200/200 for this fight which would make it more survivable. Goofed around with the vile jump out of the next fight just so I could leave with the mega (probably wasn't really worth it). I love the bfg fight. The lead in, with the chill out rocket spam through the windy corridor is an excellent build up. Then the reveal of the sheer horde of enemies is great. The rotating circle rooms are fun (all the cool kids are doing them), even if they mostly just caused me to get stuck in them :-). Another epic looking final fight to round it out. Those spiders are mean, especially that one in particular.

My playing on map31 isn't great. I sort of forgot how to dodge. I don't know that is feels very secret, though its hard to stand out when all of the maps look amazing. The ledges fight is a bit strange. You can plasma the imps down and then hide down the back and avoid having to do any platform dancing. The only difficult bit is getting rid of the other enemies at a distance, and it became a bit cover shooter. That thin pillar doesn't block rev/manc projectiles very well. The next ledge fight works much better by forcing the player to do juggle platforming and battling monsters, and the hurt floor makes falling more of a penalty. The bfg fight is fun. Something I like about many of your fight setups is being dropped into the room with freedom to look around, figure out where ammo/health is, guess where monsters are going to get released, etc. It makes it quite fun to see if you can get the fight on the first try. I made the final arena look much harder than it really is. I would say maybe that end of the arena where I spend most of my time is a bit too easy to commandeer?

Really, really enjoyed this set. Would highly recommend it to any who is a fan of the slaughter genre, and to anybody looking to try their hand at some less daunting slaughter maps. This is far more approachable than the likes of new Sunder and Abandon. The fights are still challenging, but more forgiving on mistakes. None of the fights ever felt bullshit or rng based. And of course the maps just look outstanding, so even if you aren't a fan of slaughter maps, I think you should go marble these with no monsters. 

I was curious when this was getting released after seeing stx play it. In my archives for now.

Very good looking levels and combat is creative. Good challenge, but very manageable without mid fight saves. Unfortunately, the infinite rocket launcher doesn't seem to work in GZDoom and I'm too lazy to switch source ports. Still going to continue playing with vanilla weapons for the time being. :) Can't backtrack after the final fight in map 2.

Overall great stuff and I look forward to playing the rest of it!

@ryiron thanks for the demos and review!  That one rev, HK fight on map 09 is accidentally the hardest fight in that map.  2nd is probably the last due to how chaotic it is and easy to catch a stray rocket.  

Map 31 isn't too different from the other maps, it just has different vibe with the music, and with the very straightforward gauntlet slaughter, and more imposing architecture imo.  The other maps I wanted to feel fun, almost like a NoSP map or something. 

I also feel I make slaughter but In a more forgiving way.  I make fights as hard as I like them and I'm not an amazing player by any means compared to some.  

1 hour ago, worldoffood said:

Very good looking levels and combat is creative. Good challenge, but very manageable without mid fight saves. Unfortunately, the infinite rocket launcher doesn't seem to work in GZDoom and I'm too lazy to switch source ports. Still going to continue playing with vanilla weapons for the time being. :) Can't backtrack after the final fight in map 2.

 

Overall great stuff and I look forward to playing the rest of it!

That's weird, but I also didn't test it really.  It's normal dehacked language so idk why it wouldn't work.  But then again I didnt write it myself.  Does it appear in the game at all?  Or just doesn't fire etc?  You won't be able to finish half the maps then if you don't wanna switch ports.  Map03, 05, 08 don't have it at all so you could play those in the meantime.  

I'm working on a rc3 with a credits map and small fixes I've noticed from comments here and demos

4 minutes ago, Treehouseminis said:

That's weird, but I also didn't test it really.  It's normal dehacked language so idk why it wouldn't work.  But then again I didnt write it myself.  Does it appear in the game at all?  Or just doesn't fire etc?  You won't be able to finish half the maps then if you don't wanna switch ports.  Map03, 05, 08 don't have it at all so you could play those in the meantime.  

 

I'm working on a rc3 with a credits map and small fixes I've noticed from comments here and demos

Rocket launcher item shows up fine! It even does the firing animation and everything, just nothing comes out. Looks like I'm running the most recent version of GZdoom so idk why it's not working either. I know it handles "decorate" code a little different than other ports though.