Doom Mapping Crash Course [Absolute beginner mapping workshop]

On 3/1/2024 at 3:45 PM, DoomGappy said:

Hey, @ptrdoom! Took me a while to get to this one. Here is the video commentary.
 

I tried to show you how to do a little "carrot and stick" stituation with the level exit. Here is the modified file and here is the map I used as an example on the video. I made it with @The Royal We and we were very much attentive to the concept of "looping" for this one. I need to do an intermediate tutorial soon, as I wouldn't consider some of the techniques I'm teaching beginner anymore. Lighting is fairly complex, for instance. Hope you enjoy watching it and playing our map!

Thank you Gappy, the wall with the caco and imps wasn't made on purpose with that lightning it was a mistake from my part, as for the rest I think that I'll have to stick with simpler things first. Now I'll play the map you mentioned soon and write to you here later. Cheers!

Edit: How do I play your map? I have no idea how to play this one, as I use old ZDL with prboom+

3 hours ago, ptrdoom said:

Thank you as Gappy, the wall with the caco and imps wasn't made on purpose with that lightning it was a mistake from my part, as for the rest I think that I'll have to stick with simpler things first. Now I'll play the map you mentioned soon and write to you here later. Cheers!

 

Edit: How do I play your map? I have no idea how to play this one, as I use old ZDL with prboom+

Hey, @ptrdoom! Here is a new version I've made for you with the graphics and midi. Plays well in PrBoom+ and DSDA in -complevel 9, from what I have tested.  

If you feel like checking out the other maps, check out the project's thread here:

As for making other gameplay elements, I have a challenge for you. I made a little map a while ago to test a little room setup. A fun 7 minute little thing. I have my version of the map here, but I would like to see what you make of it too. Here is the file. You can change everything, except for the flow of the level, that is, going to the room with the red key, getting it, coming back and opening the door to the exit. 

I did try to download the map 11 but when I tried to play it I couldn't get it to work, I'll try the new version and see if it works. I'll see what I can do with the other map, but no promises.

9 minutes ago, ptrdoom said:

I did try to download the map 11 but when I tried to play it I couldn't get it to work, I'll try the new version and see if it works. I'll see what I can do with the other map, but no promises.

Take your time and have fun. That's all that matters in the end. 

3 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

Take your time and have fun. That's all that matters in the end. 

Hold on Gappy, in the last file you sent me, which map am I supposed to play? In new game there's "red valley of death" "Purge on earth" "Cursed is the ground"

Lower the console and use idclev 11 or map map11. Or play the second episode, it should play map11. I removed all the other maps to save space and also because the project isn't released yet.

Ok I think I got it, it should be the one with the 3 chaingunners? I'll play it now.

2 minutes ago, ptrdoom said:

I see, afaik if I remember right prboom+ doesn't have console? But I might be wrong.

Why don't you use DSDA? It's like the successor of PrBoom, keeps most of the same flavor. 

8 minutes ago, DoomGappy said:

Why don't you use DSDA? It's like the successor of PrBoom, keeps most of the same flavor. 

I'll try it again, I remember trying it and not liking the brightness? It felt off.

16 minutes ago, ptrdoom said:

I'll try it again, I remember trying it and not liking the brightness? It felt off.

I made a version of it that is only a map01 and the song. Here it is. Played okay in PrBoom here. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pfvoxcdkk-yvZcBsvrbCRaOeAxfxhMYO/view?usp=drive_link

26 minutes ago, DoomGappy said:

I made a version of it that is only a map01 and the song. Here it is. Played okay in PrBoom here. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pfvoxcdkk-yvZcBsvrbCRaOeAxfxhMYO/view?usp=drive_link

It did work this time, I just finished it and I liked it a lot. I noticed in the room where you  get the blu keycard, if you don't touch the  armor the room doesn't lower and you can wander around the room, and you do get blocked from time to time and I think that's because of the infinite height of monsters. I played it on UV and missed only 3 kills, was the bfg at the end for a cyber demon? Not sure if I missed any.

2 hours ago, ptrdoom said:

It did work this time, I just finished it and I liked it a lot. I noticed in the room where you  get the blu keycard, if you don't touch the  armor the room doesn't lower and you can wander around the room, and you do get blocked from time to time and I think that's because of the infinite height of monsters. I played it on UV and missed only 3 kills, was the bfg at the end for a cyber demon? Not sure if I missed any.

Thanks! I'll take a look at those problems. That linedef has been a pain in the ass to solve since the first version. The BFG was for the archvile fight and the enemies you missed are probably in the duke nukem secret near the area where you first meet the archvile. Did you notice what I meant by the concept of "looping" and why it applies to this map?

45 minutes ago, DoomGappy said:

Thanks! I'll take a look at those problems. That linedef has been a pain in the ass to solve since the first version. The BFG was for the archvile fight and the enemies you missed are probably in the duke nukem secret near the area where you first meet the archvile. Did you notice what I meant by the concept of "looping" and why it applies to this map?

I think I did notice the start where you can see part of the map, like you showed me in the video today, but like you said that's intermidiate/advanced stuff which I have not seen in your tutorials.

2 hours ago, ptrdoom said:

I think I did notice the start where you can see part of the map, like you showed me in the video today, but like you said that's intermidiate/advanced stuff which I have not seen in your tutorials.

Yes, there is definitely an element of that. From the first area you can see the circle which is the first destination. From the area after the red cross and chaingunners you cna also see the red key. These are carrot and stick moments where the player is having some foreshadowing about things that will happen in the map. But also, the concept of the loop is present in the way you go into the archvile area and exit from the same spot if you don't find the backpack secret. Even if you do find it, you return to the central area just the same way. And after that you go to the red key area and get it, and you still return to the center, with the invulnerability and a rocket launcher, to have one final moment there. It's many loops. You can read more about it here. The image below found on this twitter post is also a good pointer on general level design that feels organic and fun. 



Edit: You can read some mor tips about level design on this guy's blog. Very useful stuff. 

7 minutes ago, DoomGappy said:

Yes, there is definitely an element of that. From the first area you can see the circle which is the first destination. From the area after the red cross and chaingunners you cna also see the red key. These are carrot and stick moments where the player is having some foreshadowing about things that will happen in the map. But also, the concept of the loop is present in the way you go into the archvile area and exit from the same spot if you don't find the backpack secret. Even if you do find it, you return to the central area just the same way. And after that you go to the red key area and get it, and you still return to the center, with the invulnerability and a rocket launcher, to have one final moment there. It's many loops. You can read more about it here. The image below found on this twitter post is also a good pointer on general level design that feels organic and fun. 

As for the level you posted, when you said "you can change everything of the level" does that include adding rooms to the level prior to that room that you designed or you can also change that? I run the map real quick and the exit door has no Red key requirement

19 minutes ago, ptrdoom said:

As for the level you posted, when you said "you can change everything of the level" does that include adding rooms to the level prior to that room that you designed or you can also change that? I run the map real quick and the exit door has no Red key requirement

You can add things before or after if you feel inspired! Just don't change the main area. I think I forgot to add the red key door there, so do it too, if possible. I'm really curious to see what you make. 

@ptrdoom I traced the paths on my map11 for Amalgoom.

Red is from the beginning to the blue key, blue is from the blue key to the red key, and green is from having both keys to the end. This doesn't count secrets, of course. Curiously, my favorite part of the map is the one that has the most loops, which is the castle area after getting the red key, and which has almost nothing to do with the original maps apart from "E2M1 looks like a castle". Apart from that, the whole point of the section is getting a bridge to raise to traverse the environment, which changes it, giving it some "texture", as I'd like to say it. I'd recommend you play it again and do it without monsters to pay more attention to the flow of the level. You can also do that with other maps that you like, it's an invaluable experience. 

2 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

But also, the concept of the loop is present in the way you go into the archvile area and exit from the same spot if you don't find the backpack secret. Even if you do find it, you return to the central area just the same way. And after that you go to the red key area and get it, and you still return to the center, with the invulnerability and a rocket launcher, to have one final moment there. It's many loops. You can read more about it here. 

Be careful! Level loops and Game loops are two different concepts!
What you linked is less about looping level design and more about player actions on a moment-to-moment/level-by-level scale. Being aware of the game loops that Doom has can certainly help inform one's level design decisions, however it's not directly tied to looping levels, backtracking, sightlines, or vantage points!

3 minutes ago, kwc said:

Be careful! Level loops and Game loops are two different concepts!
What you linked is less about looping level design and more about player actions on a moment-to-moment/level-by-level scale. Being aware of the game loops that Doom has can certainly help inform one's level design decisions, it's not directly tied to looping levels, backtracking, sightlines, or vantage points!

Oh, I didnt notice it! I probably just skimmed it over and added it to the post. That's the importance of reading everything before posting. Thanks for the save, I'll alter it to something that's more relevant to the topic!

Edit: Replaced the original link up there with this one: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Loops_(level_design)

On 10/13/2023 at 9:19 AM, DoomGappy said:

Skybox from missing texture
In ZDoom based ports, if you don’t use a wall texture on the walls, and also use FSky_1 on the ceilings adjacent to it, the ports will use the skybox textures in game to fill those gaps if you are using Hardware rendering mode. In Software rendering mode, they will be filled with a black texture or a Hall of Mirrors. In the original game and Boom based ports, you have to make an “outer layer” and lower it to the level if you want to make a skybox. If you don’t, you’ll get a Hall of Mirrors instead. This is good practice to instill, so it is important to remember it. Since skyboxes are a more complex subject, I've chosen not to delve into it on this first thread because it would be too extensive. Sorry, only closed maps for now!

 

Testing
Testing is an important aspect of mapping, and it is necessary to test your maps a lot before publishing them. Even then, you’ll still find mistakes and bugs that you couldn’t find but others did. Don’t be ashamed about that, this is the nature of creating things and also of having a community to help you. Doom, particularly, is full of its own quirks and sub variations.

I had a fit over the Skybox HOM quirk and learning how to fix it on non-ZDoom ports. Can't recommend your wisdom enough, even if ONLY for this section here. Testing revealed the problem, and I had to reference several outdoor maps/WADs to figure out the solution on my own.

3 hours ago, Garland said:

 

I had a fit over the Skybox HOM quirk and learning how to fix it on non-ZDoom ports. Can't recommend your wisdom enough, even if ONLY for this section here. Testing revealed the problem, and I had to reference several outdoor maps/WADs to figure out the solution on my own.

Hey, thanks! I made it with a lot of care so mappers can develop well and find out some of the roadblocks that we first found in our journey earlier on and develop good practices. There are still many more things that need to be added or fixed on this very thread before I go on to create an intermediate level one. I hope to see many more mappers come here for the following years.

@DoomGappy Here's your level

ptrdoom's Trial.7z

On 3/4/2024 at 1:26 PM, ptrdoom said:

@DoomGappy Here's your level

ptrdoom's Trial.7z

Hey, @ptrdoom, it's been pretty crazy here, But I haven't forgotten you. I'll make a video on it when I can!

On 3/4/2024 at 1:26 PM, ptrdoom said:

@DoomGappy Here's your level

ptrdoom's Trial.7z

Just wanted to update you, I've been drained by the ammount of effort needed to finish the project I'm leading. I'll get to this eventually, don't want to give any feedback that sucks. 

Hello @DoomGappy I hope that you've been doing well. I'm making this post to let you know that i've been doing some changes to my very first map and still working on it trying to apply what I've learnt from you and who knows even use effects I've never used before?

Let me know how you're doing, take care!

16 minutes ago, ptrdoom said:

Hello @DoomGappy I hope that you've been doing well. I'm making this post to let you know that i've been doing some changes to my very first map and still working on it trying to apply what I've learnt from you and who knows even use effects I've never used before?

 

Let me know how you're doing, take care!

Hello, @ptrdoom! I'm sorry for not giving you feedback on the previous map. I am really busy finishing the Amalgoom project. We are working on the last maps for it and we're going at it non-stop. I am really happy to know that you are still mapping and applying things that we discussed on this thread, and I promise that when you post the next map, reviewing it will be the first thing I do. Keep it up!

@DoomGappy No problem! I wanted to ask you is there a way to realign texture on different sectors? I've made some kind of room with an improvised window like in the screenshot. My issue is that the selected part can't be adjusted without moving the part above, so it looks like the texture are not alligned at all.

Is there a way to fix this?

made a second post by mistake, anyway I might as well use this to ask, on what grid do you usually map? 32mp 18mp etc?

1 hour ago, ptrdoom said:

@DoomGappy No problem! I wanted to ask you is there a way to realign texture on different sectors? I've made some kind of room with an improvised window like in the screenshot. My issue is that the selected part can't be adjusted without moving the part above, so it looks like the texture are not alligned at all.

 

Is there a way to fix this?

 

Hello, @ptrdoom! Good morning! When making windows like these, you can use upper unpegged and lower unpegged on that specific linedef at the same time. This way, the texture will be aligned at the top and bottom "seams". Here is a video of it: 

1 hour ago, ptrdoom said:

made a second post by mistake, anyway I might as well use this to ask, on what grid do you usually map? 32mp 18mp etc?

It depends. I changed the increase and decrease size grid commands so that I can use them more easily. I made it so that when I hold Ctrl + Shift + ScrollUp it increases the grid size, and Ctrl + Shift + ScrollDown it decreases the grid size. It's easy because it's similar to the ctrl + ScrollUp/ScrollDown for brightness controls of a sector.

Bear in mind that this command is initially associated to rotating the position of an enemy, so you have to remove that if you want to change it. Since I almost never do rotation like that, and I'm always using the grid increase or decrease function, I decided it was not a big loss. You can go to Tools > Preferences > Controls and mess around with any of the hotkeys there, I think I put my configs at the end of the Opening post in this very thread.

Answering the question, now, I work with 16mp for the general layout, and then I decrease it when I need to make detailing, doors, windows and other things like that. That's why having it associated to a simple command is so useful. 

I also made a video of me mapping for RAMP 2024. This is an idea I had for a detailing guide for another project I'll lead, but I'm documenting it to help people who are new to mapping make their maps look more interesting. Here is part 1, where I laid down the basics. I think it could be useful here, even though I don't go a lot into the details of what I'm doing.