1 SECTOR - Community Project idea

Just now, LSC Lasico said:

When's the deadline?

If it's fairly lenient, then Ill take map26.

There's no for now, but be sure that AT LEAST until end of may. Lemme input you in list

20 minutes ago, bobstremglav said:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/10_Sectors

Similiar project here, which had no trouble using boom-compatible and limit of 32 maps. They also didn't had problem of just splitting maps into another wad

Probably because MBF21 and UMAPINFO weren't around back then, obviously.

@Xaser

This project was originally going to be vanilla but I convinced Bobby to bump it up to Boom, which already feels like overkill for a project that is supposed to be all about working around extreme limitations. There is a certain beauty to making creative designs with the bare minimum features. This project will remain restricted to Boom, unless the entire Doomworld community riots. :p

6 hours ago, bobstremglav said:

Common resources for whole project which are skyboxes

Are you going to let people use sky transfers? That way everyone can have their own sky texture without worrying about other peoples'.

Name: Flooded Fluorescent Tech

Typical Playtime: 3 - 5 Minutes

Credits:

PatchTex by Gothic 

Midi Track by Lee Jackson

Ports Tested:
Chocolate Doom (No crashes or hitches on my end...)
Crispy Doom

Woof!

Flooded Fluorescent Tech.zip

Here's my map. (I was THIS CLOSE to being the first one to submit a map!!)

Title: "Ceilingstuck"

Music: Sadistic by L.A. Sieben, from TNT Evilution

I only tested it in DSDA-Doom and it's possible it'll break in some other ports. I didn't implement difficulty settings, I might add that later. Playing continuously with higher-tier weapons leftover will negatively affect the experience of this map, so pistol start is ideal.

Also it unintentionally has approximately 100 of everything but sectors (vertices, sidedefs, linedefs, and things).

ceilingstuck.zip

Seems like a cool project, sign me up for an unspecified map slot. (I'm thinking 10-20 would be preferable but I can be moved around based on what others pick.)

46 minutes ago, bobstremglav said:

Boom is long living and standartised source port, which map format is supported by much bigger variety of other source ports, giving more choice where to play it, while MBF21 is very recent and having to support it only for few developers and bunch of unnecessary features is pointless.

I can't force y'all to change your project, but I do need to challenge this point. MBF21 has been around for nearly 3 years now, has very good cross-port support, and most critically, these include the same ports that everyone's been using for playing Boom wads. GZDoom and Eternity are up to spec, prboom-plus is now dsda-doom, nobody uses the original boom.exe, relative newcomers like Woof! and Nugget are gaining a playerbase, and Odamex has the co-op* crowd covered. Dropping down to Boom allows players to play the project in... the same ports, plus some old versions of things that almost nobody uses.

The entire reason I post in these threads is because most people starting these projects simply don't know there's been an update. There are 15+ years worth of once-sound advice to "use Boom", because for 15+ years that was indeed the best cross-port feature set you could get. That's no longer the case, but people keep stumbling across old advice simply because there's so much of it. Let's stop perpetuating the old myths here.

[*re: multiplayer, that's an exception to the rule at the time of writing, since Zandronum and ZDaemon don't have MBF21 support (yet? ;) -- but this is only a concern if you're doing deathmatch, CTF, co-op-only, or some other multiplayer-only set. It's never a bad thing to include co-op support in SP wads, but co-op is a tiny, tiny slice of the pie. It's not worth nerfing your project just to make it work on all 3 MP ports, especially since at some point in the future this will inevitably be moot; the two Z's are in active development, despite rumors to the contrary :P ]

The line of sight bug seen in one-sector maps is an issue with the node builder, not with the game itself. Here's an explanation by RjY:

2 hours ago, Xaser said:

or to even have a fixed number of "map slots" at all

The counter to this point is what happened with 10 Line Genocide - 230 maps which is a ridiculous amount of work to compile (full props to Nights for doing this btw) - and this is also a loose restriction that could risk the floodgates opening up without restrictions on the number of maps. So personally I would at least have a cap on the number of sign ups.

This is wacky

Yes stupid bunny I did make a map called one way ticket but I think got the most mileage out of the one sector thing but under the situations that the monsters don't attack you

It seems like the project Runner wants this to be one sector maps that are actually playable with regular functioning monsters and no weirdness

If that's the case and just for functionability purposes why not just have everybody do the one sector map but draw a second sector triangle off the play area to make it work properly

2 hours ago, Xaser said:

Well hi there. :P

 

Yup, MBF21 is basically "Boom 2", adds a bunch of new features and works in all the main ports folks use these days -- it's a direct upgrade. This project in particular would get a lot of mileage out of the "Block player" and "Block land monsters" flags.

 

The other side of the coin, UMAPINFO (which us also supported by the same family of ports), lets you arrange maps in whatever order you want, add secret maps wherever, split the projects into episodes if you want, and so forth. For community projects like these, it's best not to have people pre-reserve map slots (or to even have a fixed number of "map slots" at all -- the 32-map restriction is gone) and instead rearrange maps afterward to fit, else you'll get a very chaotic difficulty/theme progression (unless contributors go out of their way to coordinate with their neighbors, which typically doesn't happen).

erm akutally its MBF 2

I think I will take a slot. This is actually really interesting.

(Give me whatever is free at the moment, I don't really care about which one it might be as long as it isn't map 1 or map 30)

25 minutes ago, Clippy said:

This is wacky

 

Yes stupid bunny I did make a map called one way ticket but I think got the most mileage out of the one sector thing but under the situations that the monsters don't attack you

 

It seems like the project Runner wants this to be one sector maps that are actually playable with regular functioning monsters and no weirdness

 

If that's the case and just for functionability purposes why not just have everybody do the one sector map but draw a second sector triangle off the play area to make it work properly

Yeah, that was my original proposal, until I accidentally found out that deleting the second sector after the reject table has already been initialized does not break the map. Bobby included that in the original post but it's easy to miss, I should rewrite the post myself and send it to him to update it to that, it's quite a mess at the moment. So the conclusion is that you CAN have a true one-sector map in vanilla! :)

Against my better judgement, I'll claim MAP28.

It would be nice to have an actual deadline, even a soft one.

I'll give it a try, can I have map 05?

6 hours ago, plums said:

Are you going to let people use sky transfers? That way everyone can have their own sky texture without worrying about other peoples'.

Sorry, I can't find information about it. But yeah, while it's compatible with boom you can use it

6 hours ago, Clippy said:

If that's the case and just for functionability purposes why not just have everybody do the one sector map but draw a second sector triangle off the play area to make it work properly

I tried, but it didn't worked. Second sector have to be connected with 1st sector in any way

@Xaser

I'm getting tired to repeat it, but stop proposing your tech only because it's better or newer

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/MBF21

Don't you find it concerning that you're one of MBF21 authors? You're doing very bad advertise of this standart.

In past there were so many source ports with forgotten scripting languages or abilities, while Boom appeared in 90s and still alive. We're not going for overkill features to make what is basically a joke wad or way to flex your brains a bit and rest from regular mapping. If you need so many features just to make a good map, then it's your problem and you should work on your creativity instead.

By reading this list of ports personally I don't see anything costy. As person who had lower end hardware I appreciate Boom, its powers and at same time no requirements to your hardware. Dosbox is also very easy to set up for netplay, without many launchers.

At same time, there maps which could be easily done in vanilla or limit removing, but because of using just one or two minor ZDoom features now you have to play them on GZDoom, which is known for its bad perfomance.

Instead of complaining about how MBF21 is underused, why you don't make your own map in MBF21? Nothing stops you and others from doing map under our restrictions but on different mapping standart. Or just make your community project around MBF21, instead of breaching into threads and complaining about how mappers don't use your MBF21. There so many community projects and single maps, and even megawads which aren't made with MBF21, what specific angers you in our project?

Just beware that using one or two features from MBF21 repeats situation I listed above for GZDoom. For example, your "Block land monsters" line is too similiar to vanilla "Block monster". What kind of specific situation you need to block exactly land monsters, or have no ways to work around it?

Also, when proposing UMAPINFO you listed unlimited amount of secret levels as advantage. There almost no way to make proper level in 1 sector, so most maps in our project will be gimmick anyway. Also, why you so need unlimited amount of secret levels to have good time with wad?

1 hour ago, bobstremglav said:

Sorry, I can't find information about it. But yeah, while it's compatible with boom you can use it

Sky Transfers are from MBF, not Boom.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/MBF#Features

Just now, Edward850 said:

Sky Transfers are from MBF, not Boom.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/MBF#Features

Oh. Then they're not allowed.

I think rules say that maps must be able to run on Boom or cl 9. Sorry, but try to read whole original post, even if it looks boring. I tried to make it contain only useful information without uselessly bloating text.

I try to not completely overwrite rules each time, just clarifying questionable moments

17 minutes ago, bobstremglav said:

Oh. Then they're not allowed.

 

I think rules say that maps must be able to run on Boom or cl 9. Sorry, but try to read whole original post, even if it looks boring. I tried to make it contain only useful information without uselessly bloating text.

 

I try to not completely overwrite rules each time, just clarifying questionable moments

Sky transfers came from MBF but are supported by any modern port that runs Boom maps in complevel 9, and most "boom-compatible" projects allow them. So if you want compatibility with the original DOS boom.exe or other very old ports then they don't work, if you just care about it working in dsda-doom, GZDoom, Woof etc., then they do.

Anyhow if you don't want to allow them I think you should either choose a sky for each episode yourself, or just say "no sky replacements at all," so the choice of skies isn't set by whoever finishes their maps first.

15 minutes ago, plums said:

Sky transfers came from MBF but are supported by any modern port that runs Boom maps in complevel 9, and most "boom-compatible" projects allow them. So if you want compatibility with the original DOS boom.exe or other very old ports then they don't work, if you just care about it working in dsda-doom, GZDoom, Woof etc., then they do.

 

Anyhow if you don't want to allow them I think you should either choose a sky for each episode yourself, or just say "no sky replacements at all," so the choice of skies isn't set by whoever finishes their maps first.

Thanks for suggestion, I will update the rule

This sounds like fun! Sign me up. :)

I don't have a particular level slot in mind.

@plums

What about vote system? When somebody suggest e1 skybox, for example, e1 mappers who has skybox in map can vote for it or reject it

Not in rude way, like "ew, I don't like it", but for example if skybox is clearly hellish then it won't work for city level, so either map creator must agree for such combination or artist should adjust skybox for more than 1 style (not necessarily redraw it entirely, maybe just add certain details or change colors)

5 minutes ago, bobstremglav said:

@plums

What about vote system? When somebody suggest e1 skybox, for example, e1 mappers who has skybox in map can vote for it or reject it

That's fine with me.

Discord server is made to manage project easier, especially vote system, and allow easier communication between makers. Check original post for upcoming link

I might take any slot.

'Coming off making two maps for 30 Sectors (and currently being in the process of playtesting,) I have sectors-stripped experience!

Also, hi Spectere.

Oh, sounds interesting! 

Can I have slot 18?