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GooberMan

ID24 - a new feature set standard

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Just now, GarrettChan said:

I need to step up and learn laws so I don't accidentally blackmail people.

 

The good news is that it's actually incredibly easy to (not) do. 🙂

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3 minutes ago, LexiMax said:

 

The good news is that it's actually incredibly easy to (not) do. 🙂


Eh, I don't know, so what you meant is that it's easy to just not say anything?

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Just now, GarrettChan said:

Eh, I don't know, so what you meant is that it's easy to just not say anything?

 

I have many posts in this thread and have yet to accumulate a warning.

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20 minutes ago, Gez said:

So, this sinister evil plot by the horrible fiends of Bethesda, I'd like to know more about it:

  • What are they going to do?
  • Why are they going to do it?
  • How are they going to do it?

I don't know, but taking over the largest community forum and having people defend them 24/7 seems like the first step. One of the moderators is in fact a Nightdive employee, don't know if there are any others, but certainly it takes away from the forum's impartiality.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Metal_Slayer said:

I don't know, but taking over the largest community forum and having people defend them 24/7 seems like the first step

 

ID24 fans - and even those who had a hand in the spec - have been warned and banned in this thread.  The face of moderation handing out punishments isn't a Nightdive employee or contractor.

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1 minute ago, Metal_Slayer said:

One of the moderators is in fact a Nightdive employee

None of the currently active moderators are Night Dive employees.

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I feel that my posts earlier in the split were blatently consperitorial and turned this conversation downhill. For this I am sorry.

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Just now, Metal_Slayer said:

Quasar

Moderator

Nightdive employee

Nothing against him, it just takes away the impartiality.

So what? If you are about to impugn my character I suggest you view my history of involvement with and investment into the community first and consider where you're going.

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5 minutes ago, Metal_Slayer said:

Quasar

Moderator

Nightdive employee

Nothing against him, it just takes away the impartiality.

He is not a moderator, but I didn't even see his custom title (apparently automatically set by the old board system) until now. That's pretty funny, actually. But yes, he has not been involved in any kind of staff decision for as long as I've been here.

 

Also, speaking candidly of Quasar, he is one of the most anti-corporation overreach people in the entire Doom community and this I can personally testify to. He'd be the last person on this entire forum board I'd expect to approve of the scenarios described, provided they were real.

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3 minutes ago, Quasar said:

So what? If you are about to impugn my character I suggest you view my history of involvement with and investment into the community first and consider where you're going.

Of course I know, you missed the part where I said I had nothing against you.

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2 minutes ago, Dynamo said:

He is not a moderator, but I didn't even see his custom title until now. That's pretty funny, actually. But yes, he has not been involved in any kind of staff decision for as long as I've been here.

I was previously a Source Port forum moderator; the title was set by the old board system. I was also moderator of the Eternity Engine forum.

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16 minutes ago, Metal_Slayer said:

I don't know, but taking over the largest community forum and having people defend them 24/7 seems like the first step. One of the moderators is in fact a Nightdive employee, don't know if there are any others, but certainly it takes away from the forum's impartiality.

Just curious, do you consider my post to be a defense of Them?

 

I just want to know if it's something that can be argued about rationally, or just another of those tribal thing where anyone who disagrees, regardless of why, is actually siding with the Enemy.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Terrcraft said:

I feel that my posts earlier in the split were blatently consperitorial and turned this conversation downhill. For this I am sorry.

 

Don't feel too bad.  There's a long road between your concerns and the full blown McCarthyism that's going on right now.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Quasar said:

Issues were definitely raised by the development team about how some of the things would work but time constraints and inertia prevented them from getting addressed satisfactorily - but that has nothing to do with ID24 at all. It doesn't interact with the standard, it isn't contingent on it, it doesn't even benefit from it since regular vanilla, Boom/MBF, and MBF21 mods work fine as-is and will always be the bulk of material available.

I may have to disagree here - it seems like most of the prominent "Boom" or "MBF" releases from the last 15 years (in quotes because most of them will not actually run under the original Boom 202 and MBF EXEs) have level-breaking issues. I know your statement was talking specifically about the mod browsing feature but bear with me.

 

Obviously Goober and co. are busting their asses trying to fix Boom/MBF feature problems, which no doubt spawned from poor documentation of the features in the first place, obscure edge cases, etc. So I'm not trying to detract from the effort it entails. But the reality of most Nightdive releases is that they only get to have a few patches before they have to move on to another game, or the publisher doesn't feel like permitting another patch, certification for console platforms becomes too cumbersome, or any other number of other reasons.

 

The same "We didnt have time to fix it before release" statement you have about the mod browser also applies to those Boom/MBF/MBF21 and even some vanilla behaviors and therefore applies to ID24 because it is a superset of those.

 

If, hypothetically, after a few patches ND moves on, and there are still map-busting problems with Boom/MBF features in the nightdive port, would that broken implementation be expected to be complied with for ID24 support?

Edited by Trov : typos and clarification on "Boom and MBF releases"

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3 minutes ago, Gez said:

Just curious, do you consider my post to be a defense of Them?

 

I just want to know if it's something that can be argued about rationally, or just another of those tribal thing where anyone who disagrees, regardless of why, is actually siding with the Enemy.

That post in specific? No, but I haven't seen a single post from you being more critical of it. If you look at my posts from August 8th, both about the remaster, Legacy of Rust and ID24 they were all positive, because I considered that the Nightdive team would never give us something less than perfect. Now you see that all 3 of these aren't perfect, quite bad at some points, and have been extremely rushed.

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4 minutes ago, Trov said:

If, hypothetically, after a few patches ND moves on, and there are still map-busting problems with Boom/MBF features in the nightdive port, would that broken implementation be expected to be complied with for ID24 support?

Given demo compatibility with Doom + Doom II is not a goal, I don't believe there's any expectation that Boom/MBF complevels should get retroactively broken. The unfortunate reality will just be that mods would need to work around the differences if they want to run properly on the official port. Even in the best case scenario I doubt ALL the divergences will get fixed.

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12 minutes ago, Metal_Slayer said:

That post in specific? No, but I haven't seen a single post from you being more critical of it. If you look at my posts from August 8th, both about the remaster, Legacy of Rust and ID24 they were all positive, because I considered that the Nightdive team would never give us something less than perfect. Now you see that all 3 of these aren't perfect, quite bad at some points, and have been extremely rushed.

Yes, it was clearly rushed.

 

There's actually a lot of things I dislike in the ID24 specs; chiefly among them is all the DEHACKED extensions. IMO DEHACKED shouldn't be extended, it should be replaced. It's rather farcical that we're now having to deal with negative indices. But I suppose it'd be too much too hope for.

 

2 minutes ago, Billa said:

Now suddenly Bethesda, the bigdick gaming corporation that "owns" Doom, releases its own port that includes most of these shiny features, plus an unmoderated wad download section that (whether through thoughtless ignorance or outright malice) is being filled to the brim with every "notable" wad out there. There are even promises to be more intimately associated with the community going forward. How does this look to an outsider? Bethesda has finally crushed the anarchy of online sharing and settled things once and for all with the official way to play Doom 2 and all its community works. So why should anyone use custom ports now?

Well you still can't play Brewtal Dewm or MyHouse on that official port. No matter how many times it's uploaded.

 

If it ends up anything like the scene for Skyrim or Fallout 4, the built-in mod brower will only be used by Xbox and PlayStation players. On PC, people will keep downloading mods from /idgames and ModDB, and they will keep using community source ports, which have more features and less bugs. Newcomers and casual players may be satisfied with the official port, but when they hear about the next MyHouse they'll have to discover source ports. Speedrunners will not switch to the new official port; it's terrible for demos. Did you know the "attract" demo in the background is not a real demo? It's a WebM file. It can't actually play a demo file. On that point it's a downgrade from the Unity port that preceded it.

 

Again for Skyrim and Fallout 4, the vast majority of PC players get their mods from Nexus Mods and use script extenders that let them play mods that will never work on the consoles anyway. The built-in mod browser thing is widely considered to be absolutely atrocious for managing a mod list; people very much prefer to use Mod Organizer 2 for that. The official, built-in thing is only used by console players because they don't have a choice.

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12 minutes ago, Billa said:

because there's always useful idiots and sellouts who want to turn their hobby into an income and are willing to do anything for a penny

I kinda understand your point of view, but being myself a developer who works for a company and development is a hobby too , this is exactly what a "dream job" is , working and being payed for something I like it, so when in the morning I wake up, I'm going to work happy. 

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If you've ever been asked to hurt something you love at work, perhaps sometimes you go get another job. I don't speak on such things idly. However as I said above, I respect the choice of any other worker because they're not really the problem. The problem is in the C-suite and the decisions it makes and then we have to squabble over the implementation of a bad idea and whose fault it was as if our ideas matter. Don't be a useful idiot is the moral of the story.

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Yup, I would lock the thread for a couple of days if possible and everyone to touch some grass :) ( myself too ) :) 

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