DoomerWorld made me stop caring about what "Classic" fans think of Doom Eternal.

[Yourfacedotcom]

The classic scene will most likely die off as a result. Shame. But it had a good run for 25 years. Blondes and 6 years olds will lead the way to our future of Doom. It happens.

 

Just like when new movies or music come out the old movies and music become irrelevant trash. Why watch old Robocop when we have NEW Robocop? Why listen to Kill em All when we have Reload?

 

[Flesh699]

I'd say legitimate "classic" fans aren't shitting on eternal.  It's the newer fans of Doom that pretend they've played it since 93 and basically virtue signal about how crap the newer games are.

 

I'm a "classic" fan and while some things I don't like it's not enough for me not to be excited that Doom is still standing tall in the new age.  When Doom 16 came out a whole group of "hardcore" doomers popped up over night though many of them didn't even know what a wad was, but that's mostly a product of reddit and shit like that.

 

Here on DW I don't see such BS, but pretty much everywhere else I do.  Just my .02.

[reflex17]

43 minutes ago, Yourfacedotcom said:

The classic scene will most likely die off as a result. Shame. But it had a good run for 25 years. Blondes and 6 years olds will lead the way to our future of Doom. It happens.

 

Just like when new movies or music come out the old movies and music become irrelevant trash. Why watch old Robocop when we have NEW Robocop? Why listen to Kill em All when we have Reload?

 

 

haha with all the remakes and reboots these days it really limits what can be enjoyed before they were released. I just got a headache, might as well forget my name and where I live, lolz.

 

I'm going to step away from the topic now, lawn needs mowin' and the driveway don't resurface itself *pulls belt up over considerable gut* 

[rustygizzard]

why is it that people consider new fans so bad? don't we want more people talking about doom regardless of who they are? stop shutting everyone out and being a gatekeeper just because you don't like who the new games are becoming geared towards. this doesn't even apply to doom, it applies to every "classic" franchise that has a new official installment no matter what form of media it is. not to mention the classic doom scene has gotten stronger as a result of the old games, these newer games bring attention to the franchise in general, and I think that's a great way to bring great new members into the community. who knows? maybe the next best megawad will be made by someone who was first exposed to 2016 or eternal.

[skillsaw]

9 hours ago, warman2012 said:

I admittedly have no hard evidence for this last point, but in some ways, I believe Brutal Doom has already affected mapping with harder mapsets like slaughterwads and tougher mapsets like Ancient Aliens.

 

It did not.

 

Although I find gameplay mods an interesting source of novelty, my projects are all intended to stand alone - I do not make any considerations towards any mods or test with them.

[Super Mighty G]

12 hours ago, warman2012 said:

The new changes that the new "ID software" has placed are a big detriment to the classic fans on a more of a long term basis, both for those classic fans who want something new out of ID and those who want to keep a certain way of doing things back here on the 90s Doom side of things.

This is FACTUALLY untrue. How old is Doom? It is TWENTY-SEVEN years old. The reason it has endured so long is because it is timeless and can always be built upon. The notion that contemporary Doom titles are going to impact the state of classic modding is nothing but fear mongering.

 

Doom will stay as it always has and will continue to have community support while the new titles exist in parallel. You are making something out of nothing.

 

PS. your throwing in of the word "autistic" is in bad taste

[Sparktimus]

Remember when Quake was on the verge of being released and people in the community were sure that Requiem was going to be the last big custom wad ever made for Doom because people were just going to switch over to Quake because it was newer and in 3D?

Yeah. Classic Doom isn't going anywhere.

Sure, there are going to be trends of mods and newer things to come around, but classic Doom isn't ever going to stop being a thing. There's been a pretty obvious demand for it many years and there still will be for years to come simply because of the nature of the game and its community. That style of gameplay is pretty much ingrained into its DNA and it's going to continue to be there, no matter how many outliers there are.

As far as Doom Eternal is concerned, what exactly do you expect them to do? It's a modern AAA shooter. Classic-style shooters are a pretty niche genre these days and making a game that needs to do well on the mainstream stage means taking a lot of liberties in the way of classic gameplay vs. modern gameplay. If it's not your thing, you're free to simply not buy it and continue playing classic Doom which is always going to be around no matter how much they "butcher" the franchise. I don't really understand why some people think the new Doom games should more or less be modern re-releases of the classic games when there's nothing wrong with the classic games. They're two different beasts and comparing them is just pointless.

Bottom line is that you shouldn't be caring what other people think of the newer games or the older games or whatever in the first place. If you like it, fine. If not, cool. You are free to enjoy whatever you wish.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Sparktimus

[Tristan]

Everyone else has summed up my thoughts on this already. If Classic Doom was going to die it would have done so by 1997 and the notion that gameplay changes in a minority of custom WADs are going to kill it off is absolutely laughable.

Also doomer since 2002 here, I didn't get to play all of Doom 2016 but thoroughly enjoyed the parts that I did. Doom Eternal looks incredible and an improvement on 2016. That's all.

[NoXion]

1 hour ago, skillsaw said:

 

It did not.

 

Although I find gameplay mods an interesting source of novelty, my projects are all intended to stand alone - I do not make any considerations towards any mods or test with them.

I imagine a lot of mappers do this. As a player, mods that change the game balance significantly do so to their own detriment, because it means I have fewer maps to play them on. Doesn't feel right to play Russian Overkill on WADs like Doom The Way id Did.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Sparktimus said:

I don't really understand why some people think the new Doom games should more or less be modern re-releases of the classic games when there's nothing wrong with the classic games.

 

Simple: They live in the past and refuse to accept change unless it fits their tunnel vision of what Doom "is" and "isn't", or what it "should be" or "shouldn't be".

 

Praise the Gods developers no longer cater to those people as their main audience for a long time. We'd probably be better off with nothing if that was the case but luckily it isn't.

[Martin-CAI]

Classic Doom is never gonna die. It's the epicenter of the Doom franchise, and it's the reason why all of us are here, talking about Doom. We may disagree in several things, but we all can agree in one thing: we love classic Doom. 

 

On top of that, it has great tools to mod and create maps, and it has a huge flexibility.

 

So don't worry, classic Doom will stay.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Martin-CAI

[Mr. Freeze]

Classic Doom was a lot closer to dying ten years ago, and it didn't die then either. 

[HeyItsDuke]

9 hours ago, BetaMarine said:

Yeah i agree actually, sorry for my shitty post. I guess I have become the very thing i swore to destroy, a self-destructive asshole. I'm not gonna defend my post because frankly, It was not well thought out at all. So yeah, sorry...

Well you apologized which shows maturity, and you made a random internet person proud of you. So consider that an achievement.

 

Honestly, I love both the old Doom and the new Doom. I cannot wait for Eternal, and I'll still always be playing Classic Doom for the rest of my life.

So instead of infighting, let's all acknowledge one thing we all have in common.

We all love to rip and tear da demons!

 

And Classic Doom will never die, at least not anytime soon.

[Redneckerz]

I imagine that when Warman2012 comes back and sees the amount of notifications, that user is going to think Lost Souls invaded Doom World.

 

Personally i believe Classix Doom and Hipper Looking Doom are two different sides of the same coin.

 

You know who is head's, and who is tail's.

[whatup876]

No portion of Doom should die at all. (specially with the topic of videogame preservation and the series' longevity)

A good reason for new fans is if they can reach a point to be on pair with old fans in terms of knowledge and dedication to carry the torch when the older generations disappear.

To keep sites like forums, wikis, source ports, mods etc alive and for future generations.

Because some people are worried whether or not new fans even care that much beyond the surface, but sometimes, the interest from older fans may change too.

I do wonder if someone would even think of instructions or a plan for this, just in case.

Doom is a good example of a series whose fanbase is one of its biggest legacies that kept it alive and accessable, even if it also had some affects on its public perception and pop culture.

I feel like any series deserves something like this.

 

Anytime someone talks about what differences the new Doom's have and the franchise as a whole, i usually repeat some comments and takes, so if anyone remembers what i said in certain posts that could have applied here, then uh... yeah.

But when it comes to contrarian or superficial opinions/viewpoints, i can see them in any side and portion of a fanbase, along with good and interesting points of views and opinions too.

It's interesting when people have different opinions on a topic.

 

I think what's interesting about the topic of "what is Doom" is when anyone can have some sort of "unclear" or "unfaithfull" idea of what Doom is, even when they're purists who played in back in the time the first game came out.

[snapshot]

I guess my only two major complaints about the game are the tone and style, I have no problem with anything else they've added and I think that might actually help reduce the monotony of the closed arenas feeling I had with the first game, but to each his own.

[TheRedTide]

8 hours ago, Yourfacedotcom said:

The classic scene will most likely die off as a result. Shame. But it had a good run for 25 years. Blondes and 6 years olds will lead the way to our future of Doom. It happens.

 

Just like when new movies or music come out the old movies and music become irrelevant trash. Why watch old Robocop when we have NEW Robocop? Why listen to Kill em All when we have Reload?

 

I don't think it will. It's been quite strong for 25 years and I haven't seen any signs of it faltering. If anything we could even see crazier projects of the likes of Slayer's Testament (which I've neither played nor have any opinions about it) in other engines, but still interpreting the Doom IP in other ways.

[NoXion]

4 minutes ago, TheRedTide said:

I don't think it will. It's been quite strong for 25 years and I haven't seen any signs of it faltering. If anything we could even see crazier projects of the likes of Slayer's Testament (which I've neither played nor have any opinions about it) in other engines, but still interpreting the Doom IP in other ways.

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. "Blondes and 6 year olds" is a reference to this amazing post

[BetaMarine]

54 minutes ago, NoXion said:

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. "Blondes and 6 year olds" is a reference to this amazing post

Such a legendary post, I also find it hilarious that he had to point out "Blondes" specifically

[Mischings]

I don't know much to say except that I like both games and that people like what they wanna like; Its their opinion, not anyone else's.

[Cacodemon345]

As another non-Doom example, Duke3D managed to survive Quake 1's popularity.  And despite DNF being released in a unfinished state, it still has managed to survive and there are mods still made for it to this day.

[Hcoop111]

It was at that moment he found out he had some underlying issues deep within o_o

[Flesh420]

13 hours ago, rustygizzard said:

why is it that people consider new fans so bad? don't we want more people talking about doom regardless of who they are? stop shutting everyone out and being a gatekeeper just because you don't like who the new games are becoming geared towards. this doesn't even apply to doom, it applies to every "classic" franchise that has a new official installment no matter what form of media it is. not to mention the classic doom scene has gotten stronger as a result of the old games, these newer games bring attention to the franchise in general, and I think that's a great way to bring great new members into the community. who knows? maybe the next best megawad will be made by someone who was first exposed to 2016 or eternal.

 

 

No one with a brain considers new fans bad.  It's exciting seeing new people hooked to classic Doom and exploring everything the Doom community has to offer after playing Doom '16.  We ain't going anywhere, and there's plenty of us old school fuckers around to help out the new fuckers.  You're all fuckers.  If you don't know how to create a good trap for blue armor you can get the fuck off my lawn.

 

Are you a bad enough fucker to push the boundaries of current Doom classic trends?   Can you put the boomers (millennials) to shame? 

 

Well....  I certainly hope so, because without new fuckers like you we wouldn't be shit.  And it's the new people that'll carry the torch.  It'll be the new fans that understand the dynamics of classic Doom to carry it into new epochs.  We need you.  Doom needs you, fucker.  YOU'VE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF FINDING BLUE ARMOR GOD DAMNIT!  WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE AT 2% HEALTH AND FINDING THE ARMOR WITH A MEDIPACK! 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Flesh420

[Yourfacedotcom]

4 hours ago, TheRedTide said:

I don't think it will. It's been quite strong for 25 years and I haven't seen any signs of it faltering. If anything we could even see crazier projects of the likes of Slayer's Testament (which I've neither played nor have any opinions about it) in other engines, but still interpreting the Doom IP in other ways.

What @NoXion said. I'm just having fun with some of the absurdity.

[M00DER]

A bit late but something something everyone has an opinion...  let others enjoy things you don't personally like...

On 1/25/2020 at 6:22 AM, Flesh420 said:

Okay this is epic (good post)

Serious: I'm a millenial boomer™; my heart belongs to vanilla Doom 800x600, no freelook forever but I enjoy heavy game mods/changes every now and then. Brutal Doom comes to mind: a lot of people like to shit on it for some unknown reason. This is how I see things, whenever I launch BD I know it's not going to be Doom. Period. This way my semi purist inclination doesn't get shattered within the first seconds of trying something different.

[snapshot]

Uh this is pointless, sales and reception of the game will speak louder about how well the game is going to do than some forum post, you can relax now.

[Murdoch]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:53 PM, BetaMarine said:

So yeah, I don't give two fucks whether some "Classic" Doom boomer didn't like some modern triple AAA game. People can enjoy what they want, so don't call them assholes for liking something you hate.

 

Agreed. Only one opinion should matter when judging a piece of media - your own. Art is subjective, and tastes differ. No one should be judged for what art they like unless it's something obviously tasteless like promoting the positives of the Nazis and serial killers. By all means talk about what you like and dislike, but talking down to others for their own tastes just makes you look like an ass desperately trying to validate their own opinions by putting down others.

 

 

[snapshot]

The easiest way to deal with this is to not give a damn what others think, opinions are subjective, and everyone has an opinion, but only yours is the right one. The moment someone starts talking about how "others tastes are shit, and their opinion is the only one that matters" is the moment you know you can safely ignore them because that's the moment when they start acting like whiny entitled children who are disappointed they aren't getting what they want.

[D88M3R]

Doom and 2016 are way, WAY more related to fan wads, Brutal Doom and the infamous comic book than the first two games.
They are like one big and expensive teenager power fantasy fan fiction which uses a lot of Brutal Doom and modern fps games mechanics as influences instead of the original games, with the tone of the comic book out of all things.
An ideal modern Doom would be a balanced mix of Doom 2016 with Doom 3 to put it briefly, instead they went too much towards one side, they went too over the top in some aspects.
And i get what they are trying to do, but it just does not work, it does not feel like the logical evolution of the franchise but like a big and very dumb thing that thinks of itself as totally badass but is actually kinda meh and boring, not to mention repetitive.
They are not bad games, they are just not Doom, we are not getting that quality ever again.

Oh, and they are trying to please everyone at the same time, all kinds of the fanbase, going as far as contradicting the own game mechanics and story that they want to give, a good example of it is the ridiculous "we make fun of the ridiculous exposition scenes in games where you have to stand still and get bored until they end, while we do that exact same thing at the same time".

 

Is just impossible to please everyone, but they made a lot of questionable choices in mechanics, level design, aesthetic, etc, and personally i need something else than just pretty graphics to keep me playing, there is a reason why Doom is still being played 20 years after its release, that is gonna be played 20 years after now, and that is not something that is gonna happen with the new Dooms.

[BetaMarine]

21 minutes ago, D88M3R said:

Doom and 2016 are way, WAY more related to fan wads, Brutal Doom and the infamous comic book than the first two games.
They are like one big and expensive teenager power fantasy fan fiction which uses a lot of Brutal Doom and modern fps games mechanics as influences instead of the original games, with the tone of the comic book out of all things.
An ideal modern Doom would be a balanced mix of Doom 2016 with Doom 3 to put it briefly, instead they went too much towards one side, they went too over the top in some aspects.
And i get what they are trying to do, but it just does not work, it does not feel like the logical evolution of the franchise but like a big and very dumb thing that thinks of itself as totally badass but is actually kinda meh and boring, not to mention repetitive.
They are not bad games, they are just not Doom, we are not getting that quality ever again.

Oh, and they are trying to please everyone at the same time, all kinds of the fanbase, going as far as contradicting the own game mechanics and story that they want to give, a good example of it is the ridiculous "we make fun of the ridiculous exposition scenes in games where you have to stand still and get bored until they end, while we do that exact same thing at the same time".

 

Is just impossible to please everyone, but they made a lot of questionable choices in mechanics, level design, aesthetic, etc, and personally i need something else than just pretty graphics to keep me playing, there is a reason why Doom is still being played 20 years after its release, that is gonna be played 20 years after now, and that is not something that is gonna happen with the new Dooms.

When creators need to please not one, but many types of fans of a product, there's usually something wrong with the fanbase. (just my opinion, especially with my history with the Star Wars community *shudders*)