How will DOOM 6 work?

[whatup876]

This might be a bad idea but what if in a next Doom game, the shoulder cannon was made to hold more than 3 items?

On one hand, it would lead to another weapon wheel and a bunch of items that may not be as important/required/essential etc.

But on another, it'd be a "just let the players dick around i guess" direction if the items themselves were fun to use/different and could even have some sort of story/power level/moveset potential implications on Doomguy.

 

This is mostly because 2016 even introduced new inventory items and then there's ideas for items that i think could be cool to try like a boomering/ricochet disk-like weapon.

It would meant that a Doom 6 would focus more on general variety if it wanted to have more side arms after an already diverse weaponset with alt fires and mobility abilities. (which can be complemented with more enemy variety and fun stuff in level design)

As opposed to Eternal wanting to make sure everything has a purpose unless Doom 6 also tries to do this with the expanded inventory but not as much just because of how its built into its potential new system.

Maybe it'd work more in a different mode.

Like there's a part of my consciousness that sees why stuff like this is silly but other parts of my brain think otherwise.

 

Either way, the ways of how you can think of keeping Doom fresh is why it's not an easy franchise to milk because it needs brains and substance.

[Alex S.]

On 4/11/2020 at 2:43 PM, famicommander said:

I think the next "Doom game" we might see will be some sort of follow up to Sigil from Romero.

I absolutely agree that, while not in-house, or official, it is canonical, and furthermore it is confirmed. Can't wait to play it either haha

[whatup876]

Something i've been wondering is if id, with how far they wanna go with feedback, wanted to go further with attaching colors to attack types.

Like how the Arachno-trons have similar energy orbs as the Possessed Soldiers or Fire Barons also using fireballs.

So, in a potential new Doom game, i can see that being expanded upon. (and yes, expect making this reminding you of fanmods like Colorfull Hell or Champions or whatever)

It makes me think of a system that splits attacks in different categories: Delivery and Effect.

 

Types of "deliveries" include:

• Basic fireballs and plasma projectiles, sometimes they simply travel to one direction or fall with arcing physics.
• Whether they're shot at once, in a turret-like sequence/barrage, in a spread of multiple or in some weirder spread/pattern/sequence can vary if the projectiles are still basic. (even if there's always a difference between Imps, Arachno-trons, Mancubi, Prowlers etc)
• Projectiles shaped like lines or curves, like they come from melee type weapons/attacks. (like arm blades or axes)
• Shockwave/AoE circle-like attacks from attacks such as stomps or slams.
• Flamethrowers and similar mid-range attacks. (almost like a middleground between melee and ranged)
• Lasers like either Lighting-gun/Thunderbolt/Hellrazer continuous beam lasers or quick/instant/Rail-gun lasers.
• Bouncing/reflective projectiles.
• Homing/tracking projectiles.
• Projectiles that travel in weird ways, like something doing zig-zag or spinning movements while going forward.
• Attacks inspired by the Hellguard, like those spinning fire pillars or a "projectile" that shoots other projectiles.
• There's probably more examples of this.

Then there's the "effect types" such as:

• Orange: Most if not ALL of the above can be orange because the effect will always be simple damage; basically, get hit and lose a few health points; how fast an attack is, overall damage number or even projectile size can depend since it's mostly numbers behind the scenes.
• Green: Health draining effects; light green could be used for toxic acid pools from Cybermancs while darker green is used for poison/curse-esque attacks that continuously damage the player over time.
• Blue: Dark blue is for special energy/shocking projectiles based on their surroundings (Tesla Rocket from 2016, BFG projectile tracers, those eyes that Samur could summon); brighter blue is of course energy walls and shields that you destroy using Plasma.
• Purple: Stuff that affects movement, be it purple puddles/rivers/spiderwebs that make you slow or even tornado attacks that spin/carry the player around until they break it with dash. (yes, copying Heretic here)

• Black: Could lead to blinding or sight impairing traits, like a projectile that could blur the player's vision a bit with black goo or even some dark smoke cloud that acts like fog, covering enemies.

• White: Harmless feedback effects before an attack happens: Hell-razers signalling their laser beams, Arch-viles signalling their fire spells or Cyberdemons/Tyrants signalling where their falling rockets land.

• Red?: Maybe explosive/splash damage? though i assume rockets/lost souls/grenades/etc are objects with enough details/specific designs that they don't need some color effects, i guess. (that and whether or not this isn't just basic explotions but even include projectiles that create extra projectiles?)

• Other colors exist, like yellow, pink, brown etc.

• Maybe yellow could be for stronger shields, even with the distinction between simple shields that block all attacks or those that return attacks or even literally reflect player attacks, Hexen centaur style.

In a way, this also means some enemies would use different colors for attacks: An Arch-vile would use orange for shooting fire columns, light green for fire lakes and red for explosive fire pillars.

Or something like that but it could lead to some creative attacks because of the difference between the effect on the player and how the actual attacks are delivered. (as it breaks attacks down to 2 categories, it's a matter of how these 2 are combined and used i guess)

It also means different contexts can be colored differently: Be it an attack made of fire, energy, toxic liquid/slime, blood, lava/magma, crystal, a blade shaped thing, a detailed object like a machine/object, maybe even some evil spirit or something else.

Though i can also see weird ideas like chainsaw attacks being light green coded to represent that "brrrr" damage effect on melee or a Marauder with white lights instead of green.

And depending on some abilities, there could be exceptions or outliers i guess.

Or questions about stuff such as enemy buffing enemies, healing, summons, teleportation etc.

(in an odd way, enemies carrying Plasma Rifles would be shooting orange orbs and BFG carrying enemies use blue orbs but that is if actual ingame-gun-carrying enemies as a concept end up explored again)

Certain colored attacks could inspire enemy redesigns, like Cacodemons firing fireballs unless their projectiles are made darkblue if they're electric mechanically. (D3 Caco's were almost like that, though i think their projectiles were explosive)

Regardless, the colored attacks would still be presented in a way that fits the aesthetic/universe, so people don't complain about how "videogamey" it looks. (unless there's options/settings for it)

 

This is generally about enemy ATTACKS, not the enemies themselves because:

• It could be lame if very visually distinct designs had a huge color applied to them
• Would be worse for enemies that are "cousins" like Imps and Prowlers.
• Even worse with color glowing effects such as red glowing already being associated with buff effects.
• Some enemies have multiple abilities, therefore they have access to different colors.

 

Depending on color blindness on some players, some options/settings would allow certain colors be arranged for more than one effect type.

I'm sure this all can be thought out better and expanded.

 

Anway, speaking of later Doom acknowleding Sigil.

I guess using the evil eye shootable switch but with a modelled magical eye that can pop would be cool.

And i guess i said enough about Romero sharing Doom related assets to the community.

 

edit: just had 2 more ideas.

• Yellow could mean solid, applying to attacks of giant rocks/boudlers/stone blocks falling to crush the player and block attacks but also serve as platforms.
• Purple affecting movement includes shockwaves that stun the player, through some sort of earthquake effect, like a Bowser attack from some Mario games.

In general, there could be more than one "delivery" or "effect": like how black goo projectiles could still simply hurt like orange attacks or if a Hellrazer has a "triple beam", he's using both laser and "spread/multiple" at once.

 

EDIT:

Another weird idea about the "color coded" abilities: how would a blackhole-like projectile be handled? like something that sort of sucks in the Doomguy closer to it.

i guess it could be ranked purple (movement affection) with a purple orb that has like a black thing inside. i guess a purple energy orb can look different from floor goo, tornados or shockwaves.

Edited May 18, 2022 by whatup876 : more, more-er

[CoolerDoomeR]

Maybe it's remake(Not reboot like doom 2016 or eternal)with classic but newer guns and monsters and level.

Or maybe it will follow doom 3 roots but with some doom eternal mechanics.

[whatup876]

Another weird idea about the "color coded" abilities: how would a blackhole-like projectile be handled? like something that sort of sucks in the Doomguy closer to it.

i guess it could be ranked purple (movement affection) with a purple orb that has like a black thing inside. i guess a purple energy orb can look different from floor goo, tornados or shockwaves.

 

Anyway, was wondering if Mars in 3 ever looked "redder" than 2016 but 2016 still had a green skybox level and the ice section. like if Mars in real life is not that red, would that mean Doom would increase the redness to stick to sci-fi goofyness/innacuracies?

Specially considering the way how classic Doom did Phobos and the green nukage barrels. (since talking about nuclear waste is a topic apparently and there's no such thing as barrels with glowing green goo)

(or the low-tech looks in general)

 

I also wonder if Battlemode does really have a rule of not making certain demons playable because they're summons, like the Arachno-tron.

Makes me wonder if id would ever make original demons for the mode, like how 2016 MP introduced the Prowler and Harvester.

[mammajamma]

You could easily justify Doom 6 as Doomguy dying from exhaustion fighting Davoth (not unlike the legend of the battle of Marathon where the dude dropped dead after announcing a Greek victory), and just respawning somewhere else. 

 

Considering what happens at the end of Knee-Deep in the Dead and various lore items in Eternal implying that he has some Lovecraftian "can never truly die" curse going on, it's pretty simple to assume that the Makyrs threw a damn corpse into that sarcophagus.

[7Mahonin]

Doom's Dead: The Final Nightmare will end with Dungslayer dying after killing the last demon left to make it all symbolic and then they'll reboot the series again several years later with New Doom, where we will witness a complete reversal at that point; the haters of D2016 and DE will love New Doom but the fans of D2016 and DE will hate New Doom. So we'll get to see the other side of everyone here and it will be a moment to live, laugh, love for those of us who don't care either way.

 

But really, I imagine they'll either reboot again, since Doom seems to enjoy doing that after 2 titles, or they'll make a final game connected to D2016/DE before rebooting the series again after a hiatus, but Wolfenstein will likely get rebooted before Doom because that seems to be how the cycle works.

[geekmarine]

Okay, so Doom Eternal really got close-quarters combat down solidly.  Like, when you get it down right, it's almost like a rhythm game, only combos mean more guts, ammo, health, and shields.  What if the next Doom focused on expanding the number of demons you could take on at once?  You know, like tweaked it so that combos would obliterate entire platoons of demons, Dynasty Warrior style?  Not saying make a Dynasty Warrior game with the Doom Guy, but give Doom Guy the ability to shred through dozens of demons at a time and give him that kind of challenge.  I dunno, I don't even think I'd want the next Doom game to be that myself, just spitballing ideas.

[whatup876]

I always thought it would be neat if Doom started to have larger scale battles/enemy counts while maintaining the new formula.

And vary between swarms of enemies and giant enemies who are big enough to also be partial level hazards or have bigger weak points and letting the player to stand on them.

 

Another thing is extending melee options/moves/abilities.

[The Doommer]

On 4/11/2020 at 10:39 PM, Chip said:

Since DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal are sort of remakes of DOOM and DOOM 2: Hell on Earth

Not exactly

They're nods to the classics but the protagonist is the same exact guy

 

On 4/12/2020 at 1:32 AM, AtimZarr1 said:

in this reboot series.

It's not a reboot, as clearly stated by Doom Eternal

 

On 6/7/2022 at 1:03 AM, 7Mahonin said:

But really, I imagine they'll either reboot again, since Doom seems to enjoy doing that after 2 titles, or they'll make a final game connected to D2016/DE before rebooting the series again after a hiatus, but Wolfenstein will likely get rebooted before Doom because that seems to be how the cycle works.

I don't understand why y'all still believe it's a reboot

It's clearly not a reboot if it's a sequel

 

On 6/7/2022 at 1:03 AM, 7Mahonin said:

Wolfenstein will likely get rebooted before Doom

Wolfenstein kinda should, and with id on the helm

 

TNO and TOB were dope asf, the rest are pretty meh/shit

[whatup876]

The definition behind "reboot" is less about lore/canon factors and more about the structure of the overall game.

Gameplay direction, art style, story direction, etc.

Doomguy is the Slayer but so much about the new games is done different from 90's Doom, that the game could still work as a reboot. (it probably was at first until the idea of being the same guy came later during development: there are stories of how originally, 2016's protag was going to be a cyborg and they didn't think of the Sentinels yet)

The more fitting term might be "soft reboot".

 

One reason why i always suspected that the Doomslayer could be Doomguy was less because of in-world reasons and more because of the whole appeal: Like i've been into Doom enough for a while to think "is id aware of Death Battle or certain copypastas?" because i sense a certain fanbase/fanservice influence behind the Doomslayer. (and the fact that the Praetor suit was even compared to Master Chief kinda adds some irony too)

 

I think someone even said that Hugo Martin confirmed Eternal's Earth being the same as classic Earth or how Slayer was classic Doomguy but in its own rebooted form or something. (mistake of misremembered second hand info here)

 

Even then, there's always stuff like: Doomguy's face in HD compared to how it's done in Eternal or QC; The classic armor being based off the box art instead of the sprites/Adrian design; The background behind cybernetic demons and so on.

Being a series where story was non-existing/messy since day one, the setting seems more expandable/experimentable when there are "no rules" (besides the fact that it's about a cool marine and Hell) and if anything, following a certain structural story is more off-pattern.

Specially with the existence of non-canon games like Final Doom and 3 or just the occasional redesigns.

If this was a series where story always mattered, the fanbase wouldn't coin the term "Doomguy" because id could have given him an official name.

 

I feel like if anyone wanted to be a real Doom lore expert, it'd be someone too delved into obscure/niche stuff like the classic manuals/strategy guides, some lost media or hyperfixated on classic wall textures and sprites.

Like, someone who is a bunch of steps above the average lore Youtuber.

(and the spectrum ranging from Realm667 assets that explore the original aesthetic and fanart that redesigns characters and elements with their own interpretations)

 

It also goes back to how people felt about TAG2: If you want to "fix it", you don't need to further retcon a current lore, when a game could just do its own things under its own specific lore.

A bit opposite to Halo always having a grand universe to the point a book came before the first game. (in a way, it's a series that probably cannot be rebooted because it would be out of place)

 

In general, if Doom was always bound to some sort of lore, it would not be as how people view it back then or even currently.

The non-canon games and spin-offs, the art style changes, the presentation, Tom Hall's ideas, how off-media adaptions tackled the setting, how the fanbase even affected the games from the outside, the modding scene and so on.

[The Doommer]

15 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

The definition behind "reboot" is less about lore/canon factors and more about the structure of the overall game.

https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/159187/what-does-reboot-mean-when-talking-about-latest-game-releases

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reboot_(fiction)

 

Probably not the most reliable sources but just what I find with a google search

 

17 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

I think someone even said that Hugo Martin confirmed Eternal's Earth being the same as classic Earth or how Slayer was classic Doomguy but in its own rebooted form or something. (mistake of misremembered second hand info here)

Doom Eternal says otherwise tho (and It'd be nice if anyone provided a citation for this)

 

18 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

If this was a series where story always mattered, the fanbase wouldn't coin the term "Doomguy" because id could have given him an official name.

When I mentioned that this is not a reboot, I was more thinking of the timeline than the actual story.

But I do not disagree with that point

 

19 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

In general, if Doom was always bound to some sort of lore, it would not be as how people view it back then or even currently.

My main point is not that the lore matters to Doom universe or specifically classic Doom

What I mainly mean is, the events of Doom Eternal are happening in some sort of a different timeline, however it's still with the same person who went through the events of Doom 1, 2 and 64 and those events traumatized him to the point of him going crazy to a very good extent.

The events of Doom 1, 2 and 64 are practically what leads to why the Slayer is a man full of hatred and insanity.

 

23 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

(it probably was at first until the idea of being the same guy came later during development: there are stories of how originally, 2016's protag was going to be a cyborg and they didn't think of the Sentinels yet)

I mean Doom 2016 was also once planned to be a COD clone but it didn't happen. It doesn't really matter when they came up with the idea, what matters is which explanation is canon.

 

25 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

The non-canon games and spin-offs, the art style changes, the presentation, Tom Hall's ideas, how off-media adaptions tackled the setting, how the fanbase even affected the games from the outside, the modding scene and so on.

Well technically Eternal did a fan service by making all existing and future mods canon (the divinity machine had something to do with it, I don't exactly remember how)

[whatup876]

Like i said, some stuff comes from vague memories and second hand info.

 

I do recall the source of "all mods are canon" being something from the Slayer's Testaments involving a text saying he went through "dimension and time" or something.

The whole thing of mods being canon is also questionable in a lot of ways:

One being how people look at Doom wads in general: do they think of stuff like BTSX and Memento Mori or rather stuff like Simpsons Doom and some other pop culture/meme based stuff? (it's almost like an iceberg situation)

Another being how certain Doom loretubers are kinda in a different world from modders. (specially before Doomkid even made a video about Midnight)

And a third point being how much of modding could influence Doom: Glory Kills were heavily compared to Brutal Doom but not many pointed out the Baron in Eternal having a fire variation, that's almost comparable to the same idea done in megawads and gameplay mods.

 

Then again, a good portion of Doom modding was sort of like an unofficial expanded Doom universe or fanfiction.

And then there's stuff like the Unity port addons and how Kaiser was involved in the official 64 port.

Then again, when i think of new ideas that could justify a new Doom game, i literally look at what other people did and copycat that lol.

Either way, modding in itself is like a main stable of the Doom fanbase and the series' legacy.

 

But in general, it's true that stuff did happen. i just feel like they're always going to be oddities about it because it's Doom.

[QuaketallicA]

On 9/30/2021 at 8:06 PM, KainXavier said:

@whatup876

 

Honestly, Eternal ignores most of 2016’s lore too.  Like @Quasar said, it feels like Hugo doubled-down on whatever he thought was cool regardless of what was already established.  I’ll take it a step further and say Hugo also responded the same way to any criticisms levied at the game.  In a way, it’s good that Eternal had a game director with such a singular vision.  Hugo’s drive is probably what pulled DOOM 4 out of the development hell it was in, and DOOM Eternal just built off of that.  The downside is that giving one person so much creative control can lead to some really polarizing results, which is exactly what happened with Eternal and The Ancient Gods.

 

I suspect the DLC was already underway or at least in pre-production by the time of Eternal’s release.  The nature of game development during a pandemic probably limited their ability to re-write and re-record the dialogue.  Still, I feel like id could have done more with less.  Hell, I would have been okay if TAG ended with Davoth fleeing and the Night Sentinels claiming Immora.  That would at least give a potential sequel more wiggle room and also prove that DOOM is, you know, eternal.

 

As it stands now, I really don’t see how Eternal’s narrative can continue without shifting focus to another character or acknowledging that there’s a multi-verse and begin interweaving DOOM 3’s lore and possibly the mobile games’.  I also really, really hope Davoth is discredited so we can get away from the “I planned this all along.” retcons.

 

Well you see, it's not supposed to continue. Originally there was only Doom and Doom II (plus its addons/mods). Doom 3 was its own thing that came later on. I think likewise with the reboot of Doom II now done, they will likely take a break, give the series a rest for a few years. Meanwhile Quake or Quake II is ripe for a modern entry. Or better still, an entirely new IP. They intentionally closed the possibility of any future game because Eternal already left the door open, and we got more story and action in TAG 1 and 2. TAG 2 is the end, that's it. So obviously the story has got to end.

[whatup876]

I heard something about Romero not wanting to make another Doom after 2, so if anything, that means that not even Final Doom nor 64 were meant to exist.

2 minutes ago, QuaketallicA said:

They intentionally closed the possibility of any future game because Eternal already left the door open, and we got more story and action in TAG 1 and 2. TAG 2 is the end, that's it. So obviously the story has got to end.

But even that goes into a notion of treating Doom as a "story bound series" when it only became like that since 2016.

A new game doesn't need to be made but if it was, it could be another reboot doing things differently. (specially if you can't justify it being after Eternal unless you do some sort of expansion with a different character and/or in a specific time period)

 

Maybe TAG only left a bad taste on people's mouths as a result of being a series hyped up as "most badass game franchise" and certain expectations.

But i also imagine that at least some things about it aren't how id themselves would have prefered to end up the way they did.

And with how one could reinterpret some ideas, it doesn't even have to come from a "fixing" or "apology" angle.

 

Lore/story stuff aside, there's also the gameplay/mechanical side of things and whether or not certain areas or ideas could still be toyed with, like the weakpoint/gore system or even platforming.

Or just the kind of stuff in concept art that isn't even in the Eternal art book.

 

It's like seeing the series as "lines": you have the line that goes from 1 to 64, the one that goes from 3 to maybe RoE and the one that goes from 2016 to Eternal and TAG.

If you can't keep stretching up a certain line, maybe in some years you get to draw a new one.

Again, a new Doom isn't needed but i still think there's always enough ingredients to justify something new to the series.

I also think tech in general is a priority and not just because of graphics.

[7Mahonin]

8 hours ago, The Doommer said:

Not exactly

They're nods to the classics but the protagonist is the same exact guy

 

It's not a reboot, as clearly stated by Doom Eternal

 

I don't understand why y'all still believe it's a reboot

It's clearly not a reboot if it's a sequel

 

Wolfenstein kinda should, and with id on the helm

 

TNO and TOB were dope asf, the rest are pretty meh/shit

Doom 2016 and DE are connected, but regardless of what the story says.. it IS a reboot of the series and only loosely connected to previous games for the sake of loregasms for long-time fans. You don’t have to have played any of the games prior to Doom 2016 to play through 2016 or DE because they’re only loosely connected to anything prior. A legitimate continuation requires you to know what happened prior, and in Doom’s case that has never been of high importance because the storyline is razor thin to begin with. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by 7Mahonin

[The Doommer]

24 minutes ago, 7Mahonin said:

Doom 2016 and DE are connected, but regardless of what the story says.. it IS a reboot of the series and only loosely connected to previous games for the sake of loregasms for long-time fans.

If a game continues a told story and not retells it I think it's safe to say it's a sequel and not a reboot.

However it probably is true that it was fan service that made him be the same guy.

 

25 minutes ago, 7Mahonin said:

You don’t have to have played any of the games prior to Doom 2016 to play through 2016 or DE because they’re only loosely connected to anything prior.

Well yes

But you could argue that the reason the Slayer is insane is because of the trauma he faced in 1-64

 

27 minutes ago, 7Mahonin said:

A legitimate continuation requires you to know what happened prior, and in Doom’s case that has never been of high importance because the storyline is razor thin to begin with. 

As per my reply to a different user. It's mostly the timeline being the same more than the story that has convinced me it's not a reboot but a sequel.

 

Altho you could argue that it's a soft reboot.

[igg]

22 hours ago, The Doommer said:

Altho you could argue that it's a soft reboot.

Considering Doom 2016s beginning was added very late during development I always considered it as a reboot. But after the release of Doom Eternal and the new Doom 64 episode New Doom is obviously a sequel to the Doom 1 + 2 + 64 storyline.

[The Doommer]

31 minutes ago, igg said:

But after the release of Doom Eternal and the new Doom 64 episode New Doom is obviously a sequel to the Doom 1 + 2 + 64 storyline.

I've been saying this for a while now

However the argument that's being made here is that since the stories of 1-64 are not needed to follow for this game it's kind of a reboot

Which I don't agree with but believe it could be considered soft reboot at max

[igg]

5 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

However the argument that's being made here is that since the stories of 1-64 are not needed to follow for this game it's kind of a reboot

Which is strange - without Doom 1 + 2 the cutscenes on Sentinel Prime don't make much sense. So it is required to fully understand the story. 

[The Doommer]

1 minute ago, igg said:

without Doom 1 + 2 the cutscenes on Sentinel Prime don't make much sense.

I also argued that his current mental state is the reason of Doom 1-64 trauma he endured

[whatup876]

Most of 1 and 2's stories (and also 64) exist in instruction booklets, so something that later ports of these games should have had is digital versions of the booklets.

The kind that preserve its info except for maybe stuff about gameplay controls i guess. (because of obvious reasons like seeing MSDos stuff in a game's port on the Switch and all)

But story and how stuff is described should be kept to avoid historical revisionism. (and it wouldn't take MarphyBlack to point out the changes too)

 

And then there's stuff like the descriptions of D2 Master Levels and how they were seen with stuff like DOOM-IT or whether it was either Sandy or Bobby that said something about the Archvile just seeing itself as helping their demon partners.

Something that the average "Lost Media" enthusiast could be slightly interested on, i guess.

[QuaketallicA]

On 7/3/2022 at 10:31 AM, whatup876 said:

I heard something about Romero not wanting to make another Doom after 2, so if anything, that means that not even Final Doom nor 64 were meant to exist.

But even that goes into a notion of treating Doom as a "story bound series" when it only became like that since 2016.

A new game doesn't need to be made but if it was, it could be another reboot doing things differently. (specially if you can't justify it being after Eternal unless you do some sort of expansion with a different character and/or in a specific time period)

 

Maybe TAG only left a bad taste on people's mouths as a result of being a series hyped up as "most badass game franchise" and certain expectations.

But i also imagine that at least some things about it aren't how id themselves would have prefered to end up the way they did.

And with how one could reinterpret some ideas, it doesn't even have to come from a "fixing" or "apology" angle.

 

Lore/story stuff aside, there's also the gameplay/mechanical side of things and whether or not certain areas or ideas could still be toyed with, like the weakpoint/gore system or even platforming.

Or just the kind of stuff in concept art that isn't even in the Eternal art book.

 

It's like seeing the series as "lines": you have the line that goes from 1 to 64, the one that goes from 3 to maybe RoE and the one that goes from 2016 to Eternal and TAG.

If you can't keep stretching up a certain line, maybe in some years you get to draw a new one.

Again, a new Doom isn't needed but i still think there's always enough ingredients to justify something new to the series.

I also think tech in general is a priority and not just because of graphics.

 

Hey, if the owners of the IP are greedy sons o' ____ they won't care if there should be more of the IP or not, they'll just keep throwing it at you (e.g. Star Wars) regardless for profit's sake. But with Doom, ending on #2 is just a sort of natural cadence since it originally ended on Doom 2, and these are still technically (albeit loose) reboots of Doom 1 and 2. Yeah you could reboot it again, and I don't doubt they will eventually, but give it some time, huh? Doom Eternal is still barely 2 years old, it's way too soon to make a new reboot. At least give it 6-8 more years before another refresh. Some time for gamers to forget, move on, and feel eager to come back with a fresh slate. Though honestly, I don't think anybody is going to be forgetting Doom Eternal any time soon. Strikes me as one of those games as classic as the original Doom. There's a particular itch it scratches that few things in this world can reciprocate. Even though I've beaten the hell out of it many times over and completed both DLC's, I'm always going to want to come back every now and again for that insane rush of speed, incredible gore/destruction system, and symphony of destruction (pun intended) it provides.

 

If anything ought to get a reboot next in line, I feel it should be the original Quake, starring Ranger; the lightning-shooting Shamblers; and everyone's favorite demon queen, Shub Niggurath. (Sounds like the intro to a sitcom lol). Reason I say Quake 1 is well, Q3 is just multiplayer and Champions already exists, and Q2 already got a reboot in Q4. I also think the abstract, other-worldly theme of Q1 just naturally gives the creators more room to take the series in their own interpretation and direction, allowing for new monsters and guns that would fit in the existing theme. Q2 on the other hand is kind of limited by a certain palette, robot/cyborg creatures, sci-fi base themes mostly. Plus, Quake originally was the id-made follow-up to Doom II.

[QuaketallicA]

On 7/4/2022 at 1:03 PM, whatup876 said:

Most of 1 and 2's stories (and also 64) exist in instruction booklets, so something that later ports of these games should have had is digital versions of the booklets.

The kind that preserve its info except for maybe stuff about gameplay controls i guess. (because of obvious reasons like seeing MSDos stuff in a game's port on the Switch and all)

But story and how stuff is described should be kept to avoid historical revisionism. (and it wouldn't take MarphyBlack to point out the changes too)

 

And then there's stuff like the descriptions of D2 Master Levels and how they were seen with stuff like DOOM-IT or whether it was either Sandy or Bobby that said something about the Archvile just seeing itself as helping their demon partners.

Something that the average "Lost Media" enthusiast could be slightly interested on, i guess.

 

Yeah that would've been nice. Or, take the Contra re-release (I'm in love with this) for e.g. On the game select screen, it gives you the text blurb about the game's story.

 

Although speaking from personal experience, one doesn't really miss out on much by not knowing the story before E1M1. What you need to know you read in end of episode cutscenes, and the rest is what you see in the levels themselves. Even so, it's easy to catch up online. But I don't disagree, it can't hurt to give us the manual with a digital purchase.

[whatup876]

I think a Quake reboot would be like an "answer" to people who Doom Eternal felt too cartoony and lighthearted compared to 2016 and i guess MachineGames Wolfenstein.

Because from that rusty old sci-fi aesthetic, to the influences of HP Lovecraft and the audio works of Nine Inch Nails, Quake is something you want to have some grit.

 

I do recall a Shambler redesign by one of modern Doom's artists but i wonder how many Quake fans saw it and how they reacted.

 

One way to make Quake seperate from new Doom is the focus on exploration and level design.

Maybe even some ideas for some things in new Doom that just weren't done yet.

It would also be cool if the Q1 mission packs were acknowledged.

[The Doommer]

19 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

MachineGames Wolfenstein.

The issue with those Wolfenstein games is not entirely the lighthearted moments imo.

It's more of the propaganda TNC tries to push based on hypocrisy.

 

@whatup876 I couldn't find your quote message but D16 being story based is kinda incorrect.

It does have a story but I don't think most people cared much. Same goes for classic Doom. It has some sort of a story via the intermissions but I don't think it was ever interesting

 

[whatup876]

D16 had first person sections to immerse the player with the problem being how you couldn't skip them.

I thought modern Wolfenstein was alright because you can tell they wanted to make a serious story work in a series whose "debut" (quotation marks because it's not really the first game, that's the Mac stuff) had Hitler in a goofy mech and the main character wearing baby stuff if you picked the easiest difficulty. (something they still kept in these games)

 

TNC had weird tone issues where the game goes from tackling very serious topics for a series story to kinda feel comedic at times.

When BJ gets a new body, the game suddenly feels less heavy.

Making references that felt a little "too current" may have left a weird taste in people's mouths, specially when TNO (released in 2014) didn't come off as "one guy at MG spent a little too much time on Twitter".

I can see people bring up the same with Eternal having something coming out of the UAC spokeslady and maybe that one magazine at the Fortress of Doom.

(perhaps with the UAC, you can see that stuff as "corporation pretending to be friendly to justify their actions" which is relevant when you think of stuff like companies setting up pride logos for June, then taking them off in July)

 

Either way, TNC also had issues with how story heavy it felt, while also being a bit shorter than TNO and not even having a true final boss fight. (meanwhile TNO had a remix of the main theme playing before the 2 last boss fights)

People say Doom Eternal's story is messy but Wolfenstein 2's has certain issues that also make me think of how a lot of games are written in modern times.

 

I also wonder if the gameplay potential/scope of modern Wolfenstein is more limited than modern Doom's: like it's not that hard to imagine new ideas to justify a new Doom but i barely see that for a potential new Wolfenstein.

[The Doommer]

27 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

TNC had weird tone issues where the game goes from tackling very serious topics for a series story to kinda feel comedic at times.

When BJ gets a new body, the game suddenly feels less heavy.

Making references that felt a little "too current" may have left a weird taste in people's mouths, specially when TNO (released in 2014) didn't come off as "one guy at MG spent a little too much time on Twitter".

I don't wanna really elaborate on the topics cause those are really treacherous waters. If one person misunderstands my point I'll be in trouble.

 

29 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

having something coming out of the UAC spokeslady

That was pretty much a joke taken way too seriously.

 

29 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

i barely see that for a potential new Wolfenstein.

I mean a lot of the new ideas went to the trash can too. Look at the 2009 Wolfenstein.

 

Wolfenstein always had Hitler as the main baddie. And 3 will very likely give us that boss fight. However I'm not really hyped for it just cause you can kill Hitler.

 

31 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

Either way, TNC also had issues with how story heavy it felt, while also being a bit shorter than TNO and not even having a true final boss fight. (meanwhile TNO had a remix of the main theme playing before the 2 last boss fights)

Yeah just sneak up to the Nazi's show and a cutscene plays basically

 

32 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

People say Doom Eternal's story is messy

I don't appreciate the lore contradictions either, however in the end Doom was never made for the story

[CoolerDoomeR]

I like to see some older weapons in DOOM 6 but not all weapons.(Shotgun, pistol and SSG are old type weapons like THIS, but Rocket launcher, BFG and Plasma rifle are newer guns.)

I like to see the old look of Doom guy like in Doom 64.

And some dark levels that player needs to use a lantern with his pistol with more unique scary enemies.(But other levels are action like Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal)

This would be really cool!

[Honsolo56]

On 10/6/2021 at 9:16 PM, Foxhead said:

I have a theory they will try to connect Quake with DOOM in someway, that theory is based on nothing.

Quake 3 kind of did that.