The Ancient Gods - Impressions and Story Spoilers

[thewormofautumn]

19 hours ago, Buckshot said:

HOWEVER, thewormofautumns comment above makes it seem like it's going to take a "The Dark Tower" approach (which was a multiverse saga of Stephen King's) where Slayer's tale is a long one and he is "doomed" to be repeat it for all eternity. Just when he thinks it ends, it starts all over again with little to no recollection of what had occured prior and only a artifact to give him hope he might defeat them 'this time'. I'll call this theory the slayers own personal hell theory.

 

Or perhaps thewormofautumns is referring to more of a bloodborne-like ending where Slayer essentially becomes a Great One himself but basically becomes the monster he swore to destroy.

 

 

When I wrote it down, initially I was thinking about The Dark Tower, and was going to give that analogy. But then I thought that wouldn't work, because to me it almost seems as if Doomguy wasn't surprised to see himself as the Dark Lord. Or if he was, it's still slightly different to The Dark Tower where the revelation causes Roland to go a bit nuts because it was a total shock.

 

So then I thought it's almost empathy; maybe this current Slayer willingly becomes the new Dark Lord, to save his other self. Which then repeats with the next Slayer in however many "Ages", with each Age being marked by a new Slayer.

[Kaos]

Eventually this dlc leave too many points open. Who is the character who uttered NO when khan makyr was killed? Doesn't look like it's the father anymore since he was helping the doom slayer all along. Is not the dark lord since he was still dead. No one knows. 

 

I also was thinking something silly for the next dlc. What if at the final boss battle, unknown to players, they pitch one player Vs another one? It would be quite hilarious even if eventually for some will be easiest boss of the game, for some the hardest one ever.

[thewormofautumn]

21 minutes ago, Kaos said:

Is not the dark lord since he was still dead

The Dark Lord can talk from the sphere.. he spoke to the Slayer as he picked it up.

The "No" voice is also tagged as Dark Lord in the game files.

 

Also just thought of something else - the Samur boss fight... why do we fight demons?

I find it interesting that with the Khan fight, we only fought Maykrs (seal hadn't been broken), but with Samur, we fight Maykrs and demons. He even powers two Spirits to possess demons. Samur should be against all of that. Maybe he's actually a bad dude after all, and the Slayer knows it.

[Mr. Duk]

32 minutes ago, Kaos said:

I also was thinking something silly for the next dlc. What if at the final boss battle, unknown to players, they pitch one player Vs another one? It would be quite hilarious even if eventually for some will be easiest boss of the game, for some the hardest one ever.

 

That would actually be REALLY cool! Certainly if they had Invasion mode, if you activate it that could be a cool secret for the final boss. No Invasion mode = AI final boss.

[Kaos]

45 minutes ago, Mr. Duk said:

 

That would actually be REALLY cool! Certainly if they had Invasion mode, if you activate it that could be a cool secret for the final boss. No Invasion mode = AI final boss.

 

I was thinking something ever more subtle. Two players "queue" in the final boss screen (but they don't know, since it's just a loading screen) and then they're just pitched vs each other each one thinking he is fighting the boss of his own game.

To make it "fair" players who play on nightmare will be pitched with players playing at the same difficulty.

 

Of course this will work at launch, since you can expect several players to play and reach the level more or less at the same time, but once the player base thins the queue time will become too long. 

It would make a interesting experiment.

[AtimZarr1]

1 hour ago, Kaos said:

Who is the character who uttered NO when khan makyr was killed?

 

Funny thing is, they actually updated the speaker subtitle with the DLC's release.

 

 

---

 

1 hour ago, thewormofautumn said:

Also just thought of something else - the Samur boss fight... why do we fight demons? 

 

This is good point that I hadn't paid much attention to before. I think Samur's Transfiguration state implies he's become demonic in some form. He almost reminds me of a Prowler in a way - purple, weird eyes, sort of growls like a Prowler. Summoners already looked like Maykr Angels (the arches on their head) and Spirits specifically seem to have the outline of the Maykr/Urdak symbol on their chest. Arch-Viles might be distally related to Summoners due to their similar abilities, and Arch-Viles are noted to be "descended from the eldest Hell-gods" and they seem to have an exposed brain on the very top of their heads (like Khan Maykr or demonic Samur have). Perhaps Maykr Transfiguration leads them to become demons?

 

 

---

 

In regards to Davoth's appearance, here's something else that I've realized recently:

 

Davoth was one of the first gods created by The Father. According to the Codex, the Seraph resurrection technology returns "the life sphere into its original form". One of the Codex drawings depicts Davoth's defeat as such:

 

 

We can see Davoth is a humanoid, wearing armor similar to that of the Night Sentinels, and he's wielding a Crucible blade. Besides The Father, the Seraphim is one of the few beings who actually knows what Davoth looked like in physical form. At the end of the UAC Atlantica Facility, the Seraphim also states: "I knew who you were the moment you set foot in our world and who you could become to us. I brought you to the Divinity Machine and gave you your power...". Weirdly enough, Hugo mentioned in a trailer breakdown video from a while back that the first part of the monologue is referring to the "story from Doom 2016". However, the quote in its actual context seems to suggest it's referring to the Seraphim knowing who Doomguy was before subjecting him to the Divinity Machine.

 

In other words, it seems Davoth doesn't look like the Slayer - rather, the Slayer looks like Davoth. That's why the Seraphim chose Doomguy for the Divinity Machine, because he "knew" who he was. However, if the Slayer is supposed to be Doomguy from the Classic games, I'm not really sure what this similar identity means.

[Kaos]

I believe the theory of "two of the same whole" is becoming more consistent (unfortunately).The doom slayer being Davoth would even explain why he destroys the father life sphere, he has for the father the same kind of resentment Davoth hold.

The Slayer endgame would be harvest Davoth essence and become the pinnacle of both demons and Makyrs maybe to save both or maybe to destroy both and let instead humans to thrive.

 

Eventually I still prefer the more "down to earth" doom 2016 storyline.

[Doom64hunter]

My takeaway from the story is that I want to play as the Intern in the next game.

[igg]

10 hours ago, thewormofautumn said:

 

In my view he was the FIRST Dark Lord.

 

but remember this, from 2016:

 

" the Barons of Hell are the current Royal Guard of the unknown dark lord of the fourth age"

- UAC REPORT FILE: IIS5LW21 (Baron of Hell Codex 2), Doom 2016 "

 

that implies that the Dark Lord has changed over time 

 

Interesting find. But even in the case of multiple dark lords, the DLCs codex still imply Davoth is the one we found:

 

Part VI:

Quote

 

It is sacred and protected ground that contains the Tomb of Souls, where the life spheres of the many gods The Father created are stored

 

-> The Tomb of Souls contains the life spheres of Fathers gods. I wouldn't expect a human like being stored inside a life sphere.

 

Part VIII:

Quote

 

Believing Jekkad rejected by their creator, hate grew within Davoth. Jekkad fell further into inequity as Davoth consumed all the realm in pursuit of his goals, and The Father sorrowfully sealed Jekakd away from the other realms. The Primeval, created to protect and shepherd the people of his realm, stoked an eternal fury toward The Father as more of his people fell to mortality. He became the Dark Lord and raged against the walls of Jekkad.

The Father sensed this and knew they both needed to leave the physical realms before their warring lieutenants tore creation apart. It was then that The Father returned to Jekkad, now called Hell by many. Atop the Pyramid of the Lost where Hell once worshipped The Father, as the skies split and Hell trembled, The Father ripped the Dark Lord's life sphere from his chest. He placed it in the Tomb of Souls, unwilling to obliterate the Dark Lord's essence entirely as he had favored Davoth once.

 

-> The Tomb of Souls contains the life sphere of Davoth. In the DLCs, we've seen two life spheres next to each other. I'd expect the one being placed next to the father being a special one, not a random one. Davoth was "his creation" and "one of The Father's first gods".

 

Part XI:

Quote

 

The Father refused. The Dark Lord was his creation. It was better to leave Hell contained, with the Dark Lord reduced to whispers.

If it came to pass that the Dark Lord were ever reincarnated in physical form only another Primeval, or something more powerful, could slay him. Once vanquished in this manner, the Dark Lord could no longer rule Hell. Stripped of a Primeval's bindings to the realm it was forged in, it would be scattered across the stars. Any denizens of Hell not inside the realm's borders would die as they lost their connection to the very reality The Father designed them for.

 

-> Davoth still whispers as Dark Lord. How would this match with several Dark Lords? The life of Hells creatures is bound to the existence of the Dark Lord, which would fit to the Father/Jekkad/Davoth origin story.

 

If there are more Dark Lords, which one was talking to Olivia and screaming "nooooo" at the end of Doom Eternal? And why is the life sphere of a random Dark Lord placed next to the father in the Tomb of souls?

 

But: Although I think the DLCs lore hints at one Dark Lord, I'm afraid you might be right, because:

• In the DLCs ending the Father said: "The Dark Lord is the leader of Hells armies. Not a king, but was warrior of the Dark Realm. The fiercest among them, as only the strongest could rule the demons. He is you, in their world." -> this reminds me of the crown of the Night Sentinels which was passed from leader to leader.
• Doom 2016s codex already implied several Dark Lords.
• Davoth was likely created before the Slayer on the earth of the seventh dimension. I wouldn't expect the Slayer to look like him.

[igg]

Btw, "They fear the mark of the beast" makes much more sense now.  Also that the demonic Crucible bears the mark of the Slayer.

[Chezza]

Good write up @AtimZarr1, I can't really contribute any more information. I agree with majority of your points. But a part of me feels like it would be a more enjoyable experience for many players if they slightly lowered the challenge in all difficulty levels.

 

The story does feel like it takes away lots of mystery and potential lore expanding paths in favour of just centralizing the plot to the Slayer, Father and Seraphim. But let's not forget that we have the betrayer hanging around. Surely he isn't just there to be a self loathing man in hiding just for one scene in Eternal and some tablet reading.

 

There's probably a number of sentinels scattered around fighting for survival. Chances are they may choose to follow the Doom guy in his quest to destroy Hell's leader. So we have the Slayer acting as the master of heaven and hell fighting head to head.

 

 

[HorrorMovieRei]

Kinda sad that Hayden went full villain so quickly into the DLC. I was expecting that to happen ofc, but I'm gonna miss the banter between him and the Slayer. I wonder he'll show up again to begrudgingly help Doom guy, if he does indeed lead "heaven's army". They are technically on the same side even if Doom guy kicked his ass black and blue.

[Mattatsu]

A random thought just occurred to me regarding the Dark lord/Slayer connection.

 

I always thought Doomguy’s face in this game was a bit odd, mostly because he looked pretty different than the Doom marine face of the 90’s.

 

What if, when he went into the Divinity Machine (created by Maykr/Father technology), as well as giving him godlike strength, altered his appearance to resemble the Dark Lord? Maybe not as a direct remodel to the Dark Lord specifically, but the Father did create the Dark Lord and loved his creation (aside from the quest for immortality bit) and maybe he re-tooled that design for his subsequent protectors of the other “earthly realms”, and the divinity machine remade the subjects into this image?

 

maybe there are more of “us” in other realms?

 

Edit: Nevermind. It doesnt make sense that the divinity machine would alter one’s appearance for a few reasons, including Samur recognizing “Doomguy” instantly.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Mattatsu

[Mattatsu]

Also, this DLC was fantastic. It was hard AF and in hindsight, I should have started it on Uv instead of Nightmare, but happy I did it... It just took very long (took me 7 hours to beat the last stage), and sometimes was more frustrating than fun. I’ll have more fun in subsequent playthroughs though.

[Caffeine Freak]

This fucking eye boss fight has me this close to putting my fucking fist through my motherfucking monitor, I swear to god.

[whatup876]

The idea of the divinity machine changing Doomguy's face just to justify his unfaithfull look sounds weird, but it reminds me of a dumber theory: Hell only looked the way it did in classic games because Doomguy was having nightmares or trying to process Hell through his eyes and going insane.

So Hell in 2016 is the "real" Hell and everything before is just illusions and nightmares.

 

Specially in 2016 where he's portrayed as the boogeyman of Hell and how the lore treats demons, so it's like: When he got above them, he realized that maybe Hell and even Heaven/Urdak weren't as divine or supernatural as he'd being told.

Could explain his "short" range of emotions: He's not just angry, he's also unsurprised and kinda bored, because in the end of the day, Hell and Heaven might as well be just kinda powerfull aliens that are only slightly above us.

 

If Doomguy still reflects the player, he's one that thinks the lore made the setting a bit "meh" and probably doesn't care for the praise he gets because it's like "did i got stronger or did my enemies just turn out to not be as nightmarish?".

Meanwhile, Intern reflects on the newer players that seem so excited about the lore since it's all new to them.

 

It's a dumb theory and it's so dumb, it's probably get all sides around the topic against it and be the worst possible justification for the differences between games.

It also leans too close to outside media like the novels and 2005 movie and we know why.

It could also put gameplay changes to question like how Archviles and former hitscan zombies behave now.

[oCrapaCreeper]

10 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

This fucking eye boss fight has me this close to putting my fucking fist through my motherfucking monitor, I swear to god.

Use the ballista in that fight, each cube only takes like 4 shots to kills if I remember correctly. Definitely better than using the chain gun like the tutorial suggests.

[Mattatsu]

6 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

Use the ballista in that fight, each cube only takes like 4 shots to kills if I remember correctly. Definitely better than using the chain gun like the tutorial suggests.

I dont know why they do that. I understand wanting to let the players figuring it out for themselves, but it’s a tutorial; some people will follow it.

[scalliano]

13 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

Use the ballista in that fight, each cube only takes like 4 shots to kills if I remember correctly. Definitely better than using the chain gun like the tutorial suggests.

Learned that already from the brain room back in Nekravol. The problem is getting the opportunity to actually shoot at the things at all. That and being slowed down to a near standstill so all you can do is watch yourself get zerg'd by the heavy trash mobs.

[Robo_Cola]

On 10/24/2020 at 6:57 PM, Caffeine Freak said:

This fucking eye boss fight has me this close to putting my fucking fist through my motherfucking monitor, I swear to god.

Use the Ballista as oCrapaCreeper said and the heavy cannon scope shot.  That seems to be one of the fastest ways to beat it.

[thewormofautumn]

3 hours ago, STILES said:

Use the Ballista as oCrapaCreeper said and the heavy cannon scope shot.  That seems to be one of the fastest ways to beat it.

Yep. It should take 3-4 cycles to kill each eye 

[Doom64hunter]

On 10/24/2020 at 1:32 AM, Chezza said:

The story does feel like it takes away lots of mystery and potential lore expanding paths in favour of just centralizing the plot to the Slayer, Father and Seraphim. But let's not forget that we have the betrayer hanging around. Surely he isn't just there to be a self loathing man in hiding just for one scene in Eternal and some tablet reading.

Considering how they handled the story so far, I wouldn't be surprised if he was nothing more than a character used for a single scene.

[AtimZarr1]

Timeline notes regarding the Slayer and the Seraphim/Hayden:

 

According to the Codex, the Slayer has existed for over a millennia. This is supported by the Doom Hunter program on Earth that was conducted "a millennia ago" and the material of the Slayer's sarcophagus recovered by the UAC seemed to be "millennia old". Interestingly, these texts taken together is further evidence that time on Earth and in Hell pass at the same rate.

 

Quote

"A similar program occurred at this location millennia ago, when Deag Priests (often cited as Hell Priests) bred the creatures and genetically modified them to function as 'Doom Hunters' - fearsome mutants designed to battle the Doom Slayer and his Night Sentinels during the Unholy Crusades on Argent D'Nur."

 

 

Quote

"The body was not petrified or decomposed - in fact, he appeared to be only sleeping despite the fact that the bed he lay in seemed millennia old."

 

---

 

It is also implied that the Seraphim was banished from Urdak after creating the Slayer. He would presumably head to Earth during this time to become Hayden. There's some 2016 lore that complicates this. According to the 2016 Codex, Hayden has "existed" for over 130 years by 2149 presumably (the year 2016 takes place) - suggesting an earliest arrival on 2019. The latest arrival would be some time prior to 2127 - the year that the Argent Tower was constructed as some time prior to its completion was when Hayden transferred his consciousness into a robotic form.

 

Quote

"The Khan Maykr did not seem at ease with the unforeseen rise of our Slayer, and the seraphim who had birthed the destroyer in secret soon vanished from Urdak, perhaps exiled for his heresy."

 

Quote

"During construction of the Argent Tower, Samuel was diagnosed with stage 4 inoperable brain cancer."

 

Quote

"Completed in 2127 based off a prototype developed by Samuel Hayden's research team, the Argent Tower, also known as the Argent Inductor, is the UAC's crowning achievement."

 

Quote

"He has 'existed' for over 130 years now, and it is presumed his lifespan will be indefinite."

 

---

 

If the Slayer was discovered in 2145 and two sources of evidence suggest he had been active for over a millennia, this would suggest that the Slayer had been active since the year 145 at the latest (millennia is plural of millennium and 145 is 2000 years prior to 2145). If the Seraphim was indeed banished from Urdak after creating the Slayer (prior to the year 145) - he is apparently absent from the Earth for over a millennia. The earliest UAC base on Mars was constructed in 2096. Hayden's apparent existence of over 130 years would give him the earliest arrival date of 2019 and we also know that Hayden was definitely on Earth by 2127 at the latest prior to the Argent Tower's construction. Regardless of whichever of the three years we select, none of them can sufficiently explain close to two thousand years of absence.

 

Quote

"Through their diligent dedication to technological advancement and forward-thinking, an outpost was established in MTC 2096 to extract Argent plasma from the Fracture."

 

Quote

"The Project Lazarus Manned Expedition (MTC 2145/128), uncovered one tomb of particular interest."

 

---

 

If the Seraphim wasn't Hayden for nearly 2000 years (and that's at the least) after creating the Slayer and being banished from Urdak, where was he and what was he doing during that gap in time? Wouldn't he suffer from the Transfiguration with The Father's absence if he remained in Maykr form? Did he exist as Hayden but kept his existence a secret until thousands of years later? Does he have other forms? Or was he elsewhere, drawing on a fount of Argent Energy to stay alive until the right time? However, there is evidence that the Seraphim visited the Earth several times, though it's not regarding what happened after the creation of the Slayer but rather after taking The Father's Life Sphere into Ingmore's Sanctum:

 

Quote

"It was in the age of Nuzia when Samur shattered the Kezardine Veil and stole The Father's life sphere. Samur took The Father's pure essence into the corrupted realms of Jekkad. From then on only rumors of shadowy missions remained, along with whispers of his many comings and goings to the Earthly realms."

 

Also, if the Slayer was active at the latest since the year 145, that further supports the multiverse theory since Doomguy was discovered by the Sentinels carrying modern weapons and armor years before becoming the Doom Slayer. Not to mention that Doomguy in Classic Doom was sent to Mars as punishment - and in the Slayer's universe, Mars would not have an outpost built until 2096. If Doom Hunters were first created on Earth over a millennia ago on Earth to hunt the Doom Slayer, how can the Slayer be discovered in 2145 if Doomguy was sent to Mars as punishment in Classic Doom with the UAC only constructing an outpost on Mars in the year 2096? The Classic and Slayer timelines don't add up and it's likely they're separate. The only other complication comes with trying to explain Hugo's "not multiverse" statement in regards to Davoth's appearance.

[TheRedTide]

On 10/24/2020 at 2:05 AM, HorrorMovieGuy said:

Kinda sad that Hayden went full villain so quickly into the DLC. I was expecting that to happen ofc, but I'm gonna miss the banter between him and the Slayer. I wonder he'll show up again to begrudgingly help Doom guy, if he does indeed lead "heaven's army". They are technically on the same side even if Doom guy kicked his ass black and blue.

I don't think we can consider him (Hayden) to have gone full villain since his goals were always to save Urdak and mankind and he honestly believes that, by saving Urdak and restoring the Father to his physical form, the Father will not only restore Urdak to its original glory but also save mankind from Hell.

[HQDefault]

I like a lotta stuff about the new Doom lore, but I really, really don't like the direction they're taking with making Samuel Hayden the Seraphim.

 

They really need to come up with an actual explanation as to why he's characterized so differently between Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. I get that 2016's story was rushed and they hadn't thought of most of this yet... but come on, they're clearly not just pretending 2016 didn't happen. You already mentioned that him knowingly destroying VEGA in 2016 is really stupid, considering he had no idea the Slayer was going to make a backup. But even beyond that, in 2016 he just felt so much more grounded. He had genuine human motivations that were easy to understand. Now it feels like he's obsessed with Argent for literally no reason... like he seems to simultaneously detest its creation but loves using it... I dunno, it's just so obviously not the same person.

 

I had the idea a while back that the Seraphim made a deal with the real Dr. Samuel Hayden that he would give him Maykr tech to keep him alive in exchange for sharing his body and consciousness. So in 2016, you were mostly talking to the actual Hayden. But in Eternal, either because of the weight of the situation, or where the Slayer was going, or maybe because Hayden just had less control in the Fortress of Doom's mainframe... it was largely the Seraphim you were talking to.

 

Except for "You can't just shoot a hole into the surface of Mars." That was Hayden.

 

I feel like this idea is still technically possible, but it really just seems they're not going that way. It looks like they'd rather just retcon it, which is disappointing. 

 

 

Edit to avoid double-post:

@TheRedTide

Quote

I don't think we can consider him (Hayden) to have gone full villain since his goals were always to save Urdak and mankind and he honestly believes that, by saving Urdak and restoring the Father to his physical form, the Father will not only restore Urdak to its original glory but also save mankind from Hell.

I agree. It's clear that what Slayer is going for it more of a long-term solution to a more specific problem, but it does kind of leave Urdak in the dust. But hey, Doomguy swore responsibility to Humanity, not Urdak. It's also possible that the Seraphim knew the Dark Lord was the Anti-Slayer, and wanted to stop the Slayer from resurrecting him out of fear that if anyone could kill the Slayer, it would be another Slayer.

Edited October 30, 2020 by HQDefault

[igg]

12 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

Also, if the Slayer was active at the latest since the year 145, that further supports the multiverse theory since Doomguy was discovered by the Sentinels carrying modern weapons and armor years before becoming the Doom Slayer. Not to mention that Doomguy in Classic Doom was sent to Mars as punishment - and in the Slayer's universe, Mars would not have an outpost built until 2096. If Doom Hunters were first created on Earth over a millennia ago on Earth to hunt the Doom Slayer, how can the Slayer be discovered in 2145 if Doomguy was sent to Mars as punishment in Classic Doom with the UAC only constructing an outpost on Mars in the year 2096? The Classic and Slayer timelines don't add up and it's likely they're separate. The only other complication comes with trying to explain Hugo's "not multiverse" statement in regards to Davoth's appearance.

I think Hugo's "not multiverse" statement is referring to a Arrowverse like multiverse of infinite universes, where each universe has a different version of the same Arrow/Flash/... The Khan Maykr spoke about the earth in the 7th dimension, which many people (including me) saw as a confirmation of a Doom multiverse.

 

I still think we have a Doom multiverse, but I never imagined it being like the Arrowverse. "Multiple dimensions" (to use the same words as the Khan Maykr) better describes it - the 7th dimension has the earth of the Slayer, the 8th (for example) dimension has another earth (maybe older, maybe younger), it's own timeline and unique characters. Thus the Slayer is a unique character across all dimensions. And Urdak and Hell are entities which touched multiple dimensions.

 

Using this timeline you can easily connect Doom 1 Earth/Phobos (7th dimension) -> Doom 2 Earth (7th dimension) -> Doom 64 Earth (7th dimension) -> Doom 2016 Mars & Argent D'Nur (8th dimension) -> Doom Eternal Earth & Argent D'Nur & Mars (8th dimension), ...

 

Between Doom 2 and Doom 2016 the Slayer has lived for eons in Hell and maybe visited Earths of multiple dimensions before finally arriving on Argent D'Nur and meeting the Khan Maykr. He might even have fought demons on the Earth of the 8th dimension before it's (Doom Eternals) mankind even existed.

Edited October 30, 2020 by igg

[Taurus Daggerknight]

Okay, I finally finished Ancient Gods on Ultra Violence (had to fall back on Sentinel Armor for the final fight though...). 

My overall thoughts: 

 

+ INTENSE combat that reminded me of classic FPS titles with just how hectic they got. I particularly like the use of imps and zombie troops, which again, felt like a 

   return to form. 
+ Visually stunning levels, as expected. 
+ Plasma gun has been improved, beyond the use of the beam. 

+ Music is amazing. It keeps the feel of the new Doom series while being more melodic/ riff driven, and less reliant on distortion. 

+ The final boss arena is epic, and reminded me so much of old school shooters in how it was setup. 

 

+- Spirits. They are interesting, but I think their possessed forms need to be nerfed a little. In some battles they seem fine, but then in others they feel like total bullshit. 

 

- Overuse of Marauders. Not a comment on whether Marauders are good or bad, there's just way too many of them now. 

- The first level should have been split in two, as it currently feels like it just goes on a little too long. It was still fun, but it got a but long in the tooth. 

- Okay, I have been defending a lot of the story decisions for NuDoom since 2016. I still stand by everything I've said.... but Ancient Gods is seriously pushing it. Ignoring the sheer number of contradictions to Eternal AND 2016's setup, it's just....so overblown and nonsensical now. 2016 had a fun "Who cares, blah blah plot, KILL NOW" vibe, which worked. Eternal had a more "We've got a world and lore, but it's told as if this is Warhammer 40,000's EPIC WAAAAR" vibe, which was also fun for what it was. Now we have.... I can't tell if they're trying to stretch the joke about "Fantasy epic" too long, or if they are legit serious about the stuff they are layering. Either way, it's neither hitting the comedic nor serious notes for me, and now just feels like they're making up as much nonsense as they can to throw in. 

- On the matter of plot, can I just say how much I hate it when games try to say "Oh look, it's all your fault, everything is bad because of what you did!"....when in fact it never gave you a  choice, nor is there any real evidence that what you did was so bad anyhow? The entire campaign has "Oh, your actions blah blah blah", but it's like... what, the Maykers literally orchestrated a DEMONIC INVASION ON EARTH, but I'm supposed to be feel like I'm at fault?

- Some of the later fights in the Holt are... not good. They really start to stretch the balance of "Challenging" and "pure bull" in some parts.

 

Overall: I loved most of the expansion. I think it could certainly do with some balancing adjustments, but the action was pretty great all throughout. I'm wondering how well the base game will hold up after all that! My only hope/ wish now is that they adjust course with the story. The joke of "haha this is so big and epic" is wearing thin now, as nice and fun as it was in 2016 and Eternal's base. It's also , again, pretty clear that they're just throwing random things in to the "lore" that doesn't line up with itself at all. 

 

All in all; I had fun! Looking forward to part 2. 

 

[Mazze]

I liked quite a few parts of this DLC, but the spirits totally ruined it for me in some areas. I had to turn down the difficulty to HMP on Holt due to the amount of times my Plasma Gun microwave beam locked on to a nearby enemy instead of the spirit after 3-4 minutes of fighting. Others don't seem to be having this issue, but I was floored that this passed playtesting - only one way of destroying a spirit and the game doesn't even prioritise the spirit when you use the microwave beam? Madness. There were definitely multiple instances where I aimed the beam at a spirit, only for it to target an enemy behind the spirit instead and allow the spirit to absorb that very same enemy. 

 

That aside, I really liked UAC Atlantica Facility and mostly liked Holt.

 

The Blood Swamps was very hit and miss, though. The misty area with the empowered arachnotron, spectres and doomhunter I felt was extremely limiting to the player and not enjoyable at all. The large arena fight with the archvile popping up near the end was also a lowlight for me, an absolute slog of a fight in length and I still feel that the archvile has way too much health. It feels about twice as difficult to take down as it does in the original Doom 2, and it has way more impact on fights with its buffing/spawning ability. Seems I'm in the minority on that, too.

 

 

[oCrapaCreeper]

On 10/30/2020 at 6:44 AM, igg said:

I think Hugo's "not multiverse" statement is referring to a Arrowverse like multiverse of infinite universes...:

 

 

Regarding “dimensions”, when the Intern sets the teleporter so the slayer can go the Urdak, the screen he uses calls Urdak the sixth dimension (or is in it). Not sure if that’s related to the Khan Maykr’s cut line or even just a coincidence but that’s something I noticed.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by oCrapaCreeper

[AtimZarr1]

13 minutes ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

Regarding “dimensions”, when the Intern sets the teleporter so the slayer can go the Urdak, the screen he uses calls Urdak the sixth dimension (or is in it). Not sure if that’s related to the Khan Maykr’s cut line or even just a coincidence but that’s something I noticed.

 

 

Just verified this and you are correct. The computer screen seems to imply that dimensions could be worlds, rather than universes as originally speculated. I think it's likely related to the Khan Maykr's cut line, though it raises a question on why the Khan Maykr would distinguish the "Earth world" being from "the 7th dimension", if there is only one Earth world across all dimensions presumably. Not to mention the Slayer can return to Earth at any time during the campaign himself, so it's a bit of an odd offer to make.

 

 

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To further add on to this definition, the Steam store description of Doom Eternal also mentions "dimensions". This context is presumably referring to Urdak, Hell, Earth, and possibly Argent D'Nur - though I don't believe the game actually calls Argent D'Nur a dimension at any point.

 

Quote

"Hell’s armies have invaded Earth. Become the Slayer in an epic single-player campaign to conquer demons across dimensions and stop the final destruction of humanity. The only thing they fear... is you."

 

The Doom Eternal Codex also makes numerous references to dimensions. I've selected a few to highlight. The 2016 Codex similarly mentions dimensions too, mostly in regards to "our dimension" and the "Hell dimension." We can see that (1) Hell, Earth, and Urdak are considered dimensions, (2) the Argenta's conquest extended across dimensions, and (3) The Father apparently created countless dimensions. Interestingly, Urdak apparently employs "dimensional shift" technologies to exist outside the universe.
 

Quote

"Foreseeing that Davoth's rule would ultimately grow to threaten all creation, and that Davoth would someday rise to challenge The Father himself, the creator of all things sealed Jekkad off from the myriad dimensions enfolded in his arms."

 

"It was from here The Father first created the new dimension of Jekkad."

 

"The Icon's presence warps reality, damaging the intricate order of our dimension merely by existing within it."

 

"Urdak itself exists in an anchor state, utilizing highly advanced dimensional shift technology to allow a static position at a sub-quantum level. This essentially inverts their position in relation to Hell; both planes of existence are fixed outside the bounds of the known universe, a 'lower' and 'higher' reality."

 

"In the time of King Novik, as the Argenta secured peace and safety through dimensions across time and space, an Outlander came to us."

 

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Also to note, it seems "worlds" and "dimensions" might be interchangeable in the Codex. Here are a few examples of Hell, Earth, Urdak, and other locations also being referred to as worlds. This would further support the idea that dimensions could be referring to physical places and not separate universes.

 

Quote

"Weaponized and cybernetically altered by the UAC, the Tyrants are tasked with overseeing the collection and extraction of sin-branded human souls from the human world, their role in Hell ordained by the unholy sigil of the Elder Hell-gods."

 

"The high priests, under the guidance of the Mother God, had found means to gain entry to the innermost regions of the demon world, and with the Deag's presence new gates could be opened."

 

"The Sentinels would close the Argent energy factories in Nekravol, that which fed the world of Urdak directly with its supply of fresh Essence."

 

"These divine beings occasionally gathered in Conclaves or at the summons of the Khan Maykr, but typically do not work together, instead being assigned as independent advisors and overseers amongst Maykr-controlled worlds."

 

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Interestingly, the facility voice also explains the portal destination is specifically set in the 6th region of the Equestrian Holt. Perhaps there's a 666 reference somewhere?