What do you want id to do next after Eternal?

[The Doommer]

2 hours ago, Rudolph said:

The danger of not taking Nazi atrocities too seriously is that you may end up doing the same mistake as Blade of Agony, i.e. featuring a highly controversial level set inside a concentration camp where you encounter Itzhak Stern and battle a cartoon Josef Mengele.

I fail to understand how it's not taking those too seriously.

 

Sounds like to me it took a step into showing the darker aspects of the Nazis where no other game did that deeply afaik.

Not sure about cartoon Josef Mengele tho, haven't played 3.0 chapter 3 yet. Not sure how he's portrayed.

[Rudolph]

2 hours ago, whatup876 said:

New Doom? i mean a lot of effort goes into stuff like directing those cutscenes and programming stuff, even if something is optional.

Besides, i believe id is aware of people who got invested in the lore and all.

Yeah, I just do not get why Id would downplay a significant aspect of their game like that just to appease a certain player base.

 

It feels to me like a movie director telling their audience that they do not have to pay attention to the script and the actors' performance.

 

1 hour ago, ApprihensivSoul said:

It's The Producers meets Army of Darkness

Absolutely not. Id Software is not a bunch of scam artists who are trying to deliver the worst product imaginable.

 

Plus battling cartoon Nazis was hardly a novelty back in the early 1990s: starting prior to World War II, there have been so many movies, comic books, plays, you name it, that did just that (even Donald Duck did it!). I think the real reasons why Wolfenstein 3D got censored so much are that Germany is still very much traumatized by the Nazi regime - rightfully so - and Nintendo had these weird-ass standards when it came to violence and political symbols that were not even applied consistently.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Rudolph

[Master O]

On 3/3/2021 at 4:26 PM, Captain Keen said:

Now that DLC 2 is close to coming out, and Eternal has made a ton of money, what do you want to see id do next?

 

Another Doom game?

 

A reboot of Quake?

 

A new IP in the style Doom and Quake -- Trinity perhaps??

 

Or something else altogether?

 

Personally I'd like to see a new IP, but in the style of Doom and Quake. Maybe something with some fantasy elements, like a Quake 1 / Hexen hybrid. Same type of gameplay where it's skill based combat that is fast paced and monster heavy. I'd love to see that gritty fantasy medieval vibe of the first Quake again.

 

(I wouldn't say no to another Doom, though.)

 

A sequel to the original 1996 Quake.

[whatup876]

Something about Doom always being cartoony and Quake being gritty make me think: Doom may still have an edge over Quake when it comes to horror.

And while both series are technically "sci-fi and fantasy combined", i feel like Doom just has a bigger base for variety/versatility.

Partially because its Hell was always a diverse mix of themes and with Doom 3 in mind, some designs can be very experimental and weird; while Quake 1 and its expansions can have different themes/designs but people always view its settings as more "strict".

This also ties into how something like D64 has a great atmosphere that just happens to not have certain things from D1/2 and how 2016 had both a more "strict" Hell and a rather "grounded biology" for the demons with the chittin theme.

(then there's how Doom had art style changes but Quake changed the actual premise, because of the Strogg)

 

But because Doom is about Hell, we tend to think of Hell has a concept or entity that represents something evil, painful and scary.

Like, it KNOWS that it's evil and what it represents.

It's part of why genres like horror games and JRPG's can have a lot of interesting designs and creativity: ranging from creatures that look like they were born out of hate and to intentionally disturb humans to something that could have some sort of meaning/representation/symbolism/etc.

Demons can range from minotaurs and gargoyles to something more abstrcact.

 

Whereas with Lovecraft and eldritch horrors, they're scary because they're part of a nature that is too outwordly for us but the fact that we don't understand them could also mean we're not sure if these beings hate us or know our fear of them.

It's why this stuff can be compared to how a human never thinks much of what a tiny bug thinks of them.

And because demons can have certain concepts that are "familiar" or even describable; Eldritch monsters are often associated with a certain anatomy meant to "break rules" but still in a clear outwordly way.

Hell sort of wants to break rules and can do that.

 

I think because of this, it's easier to see Quake designs in Doom than the other way around:

Because Hell is the ultimate evil and knows it, it can replicate eldritch horrors for the sake of "just because we feel like it lol".

Though Quake still had pentagrams and even Jesus portraits.

Both can be supernatural evils but one could be on top because it's the "Ultimate Evil" while the other would seem like "weird magic aliens" in comparison.

 

Then again, one thing is "what Hell in Doom could be", another is "what Doom's Hell actually is", because when i discuss its potential, i tend to refer to either previous designs/concepts or even how the series spawned creativity in the fanbase as seen in mods or fanart.

But with how the official lore is done, some of this stuff may not be supported by Hell's current laws of physics.

Though when it comes to absorbing different worlds and all, Hell always had a track record of that.

 

Maybe i'm missing something and seeing this in a rather skewed way.

 

edit: forgot to mention Bosch as an example too

Edited July 27, 2022 by whatup876 : just some mention of Bosch

[Wad overdose]

I want preqel of QC, i mean show it what ranger all these 20 years after Q1 and show vadrigars/Dreamlands elder gods in the flesh and maybe boss battle against  rice montell/goroth and show how stroggs connected to Dreamlands,after all, they collaborated with wendell gilman/q1 dark young aka final boss before quake one events  and origin of these race ,it will be cool i think,or release latest build of doom 4 (1.0).

Edited July 24, 2022 by Wad overdose

[Metal_Slayer]

On 7/24/2022 at 6:21 AM, Wad overdose said:

I want preqel of QC, i mean show it what ranger all these 20 years after Q1 and show vadrigars/Dreamlands elder gods in the flesh and maybe boss battle against  rice montell/goroth and show how stroggs connected to Dreamlands,after all, they collaborated with wendell gilman/q1 dark young aka final boss before quake one events  and origin of these race ,it will be cool i think,or release latest build of doom 4 (1.0).

First, what are you talking about? Second, do you want them to make a game or a movie?

[Wad overdose]

17 hours ago, Metal_Slayer said:

First, what are you talking about? Second, do you want them to make a game or a movie?

 

I say how i imagine quake game, events  between q1 and begin of qc, rice montell aka goroth character of quake champions ex commander of operation conterstrike one  of antagonists of q1 in qc version of the events in qc's lore he became vadrigar/elder god pass to netherworld for inspection to lab and he  encounter with ithagnal goddess of netherworld after return to slipgate complex he starts see nightmares in dreams and became mad, and after became  fully mind controled by gilman he is main antagonist of q1 he in end became final boss of q1 dark young of shub-niggurath,rice give order to ranger go in to slipgate with team to dreamlands it's trap to them for onslaught of possible resistance of not corrupted marines, after pass from slipgate in dimension of the doomed he is becamed the vadrigar goroth gained the will and became in itself it's   just lore from the game, it's first reply the  secondary is, i not very want quake and especially doom how us showcase 2005 movie and 2019 movie.

(Edited i replaced word trraped in to pass for I mixed up a little since English is not my main language.)

Edited July 28, 2022 by Wad overdose

[Cantleylads]

5 hours ago, Wad overdose said:

 

I say how i imagine quake game, events  between q1 and begin of qc, rice montell aka goroth character of quake champions ex commander of operation conterstrike one  of antagonists of q1 in qc version of the events in qc's lore he became vadrigar/elder god trapped to netherworld and encounter with ithagnal after return to slipgate complex he starts see nightmares in dreams and became mad, and after became  fully control by gilman main antagonist of q1 he in end became final boss of q1 dark young of shub-niggurath,rice give order to ranger go in to slipgate with team to dreamlands it's trap to them for onslaught of possible resistance of not corrupted marines, after trapped in dimension of the doomed he is becamd the vadrigar goroth gained the will and became in itselfit's its  just lore from the game, its first secondary i not very want quake and especially doom how us showcase 2005 movie and 2019 movie.

Holy sentence, Vadrigar!

 

I think you draw more meaning from the thread-bare Quake lore than any of the dev studios.

[Wad overdose]

54 minutes ago, Cantleylads said:

Holy sentence, Vadrigar!

 

I think you draw more meaning from the thread-bare Quake lore than any of the dev studios.

It's info from lore scrolls and info from official  quake discord server by adam pyle current creator of quake lore he big fan of the series,in qc lore explained why strogg insignia apear in q1 crates gilman in one moment contacted with stroggs they give more stronger slipgates in exchange for cooperation, this is true frist contact with mankind.

This is link To screenshot of info from official q ds if you not trust me.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H0J-JwXsTZehaHTkJbf1NSCj6GCuBPYy/view

Btw visor prime/q3a visor clones became cyborgs by gilman he kidnapped them.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Wad overdose

[whatup876]

Also, i edited my post to mention Bosch but another thing is how Quake being associated with Lovecraft could have that difficulty of keeping up with mystery and the unknown aspect of Lovecraft literature.

I can see someone complaining about the use of tentacles or something.

 

Meanwhile, i see concept artists and even Kenneth Scott doing AI related stuff:

Maybe this is how we could make a new Quake work if the tech allows it.

[Metal_Slayer]

What is the relation between beig a lore nerd and not knowing how to formulate phrases?

[RandoBust]

I'd like them to go back to something more along the lines of classic Doom. I didn't like all the additions in Eternal (ice, fire, blood punch, etc.) and throwing in crazy movement really felt off-putting to me. 

[whatup876]

9 hours ago, RandoBust said:

I'd like them to go back to something more along the lines of classic Doom. I didn't like all the additions in Eternal (ice, fire, blood punch, etc.) and throwing in crazy movement really felt off-putting to me. 

The obvious answer to that will always be "Doom wadding/modding still exists and is getting better than ever while the new official Doom games will keep trying new things, because Doom dropped its old formula since D3".

If there ever is a "need" for Doom to "be classic again", i feel like that's why collabs are for, like the addons on the Unity ports or ports like D64 and if we ever get the official RPG games available in an official release or something.

Because of Postal Brain Damaged, i thought id could have tried a "true retro boomer shooter" indie spin-off for Doom, specially compared to something like Mighty Doom or VFR as far as spin-off content goes.

You'd be making things feel "real old school" but also throw modern elements or something entirely new to make it justified.

It'd be some type of fanservice at least.

I also like to think that the new games' formula can still be explored because Eternal feels like it opened a gate to many opportunities.

But from a video by UnderTheMayo i saw, he says a new Doom should have to be new enough that it could ditch the meathook.

[Sparktimus]

A Quake game that isn't just a hero shooter and has an actual singleplayer that isn't just a bot match ladder, please.

[D0M0]

I wouldn't complain to any more Doom releases, but Quake is most likely ideal. 

[kexen]

A lot of people are asking for a new Quake, but old Quake was so much like old Doom, and new Doom "backported" lots of Quake concepts (never mind Eternal's relationship with Champions), to the point that the only kind of new Quake we need right now is a sequel to Quake II/4.

 

...Which you can just do with a new Doom anyway. Eternal was all about "what if 2016, but bigger somehow". So what's bigger than Eternal? Time to make the Slayer fight aliens, which is imagery we're already approaching anyway. Maybe even have the Slayer, Ranger, Bitterman, and whoever else all team up. Imagine a(n optional) co-op take on 2016 or Eternal gameplay. That's bigger.

[Ludi]

I want a Dangerous Dave reboot. 

 

Did he, or did he not escape copyright infringement?

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Sr_Ludicolo

[whatup876]

8 hours ago, kexen said:

A lot of people are asking for a new Quake, but old Quake was so much like old Doom, and new Doom "backported" lots of Quake concepts (never mind Eternal's relationship with Champions), to the point that the only kind of new Quake we need right now is a sequel to Quake II/4.

 

...Which you can just do with a new Doom anyway. Eternal was all about "what if 2016, but bigger somehow". So what's bigger than Eternal? Time to make the Slayer fight aliens, which is imagery we're already approaching anyway. Maybe even have the Slayer, Ranger, Bitterman, and whoever else all team up. Imagine a(n optional) co-op take on 2016 or Eternal gameplay. That's bigger. 

Also reminds me of what i previously said about Hell in Doom and its potential, where it could borrow elements from Quake's eldritch monsters and Strogg, along with more elements for the sake of surrealism/abstraction even if it has to drop some "rules" settled by modern lore.

For the sake of over the top "cool factor".

Along with why Bosch's paintings are amazing or even the appeal of some horror movies being the creative designs of the monsters and sets.

 

Whatever fanservice-y or crossover idea id would ever tackle, that's partially why i keep bringing up mods or stuff fans did.

Just saying but if id Software ever wants to make "Doom more epic than it is now", that reminds me of how people assumed they took inspiration from Brutal Doom or how the Slayer himself has interesting inspirations from the fanbase.

 

People like to talk about how "Sonic fans get the series better than SEGA" but Doom always felt like it was co-owned by its fanbase.

Quake Champions is like the first time Doomguy, BJ and Ranger where in a game together but they didn't even hype that aspect specifically and Doomguy was announced by a tweet.

May sound like i'm going either "nintendo hire this man", "steal their ideas lmao" or "the fans did it better" territories.

 

Anyway, if Doom will absord Quake, what about other games like Heretic or Turok?

I want to see more new elements to the platforming and one enemy copying the Iron Lich tornado.

[whatup876]

I had another idea for a Manc design: Both cannons are heads (maybe different species like one head is 2016 Manc and another is Eternal Manc), but the actual head of this Manc is a cannon on itself.

It could have a chance to shoot 3 projectiles at once and instead of an exposed heart, it has an eye or something.

[Herr Dethnout]

A Hexen or Heretic rerelease (Give some love pls)

I don't want a Quake Reboot if doesn't follows Q1 aesthetics, rather a sequel of Q1

[CatWithAComputer]

 

On 3/3/2021 at 4:26 PM, Captain Keen said:

Now that DLC 2 is close to coming out, and Eternal has made a ton of money, what do you want to see id do next?

 

Another Doom game?

 

A reboot of Quake?

 

A new IP in the style Doom and Quake -- Trinity perhaps??

 

Or something else altogether?

 

Personally I'd like to see a new IP, but in the style of Doom and Quake. Maybe something with some fantasy elements, like a Quake 1 / Hexen hybrid. Same type of gameplay where it's skill based combat that is fast paced and monster heavy. I'd love to see that gritty fantasy medieval vibe of the first Quake again.

 

(I wouldn't say no to another Doom, though.)

1-Doom game: It would be nice! But after the mick gordon controversy i don't think they would like to make another doom game.

2-Quake reboot: I've seen many reboots of successful franchises and all they have done is throw everything down the drain... and knowing modern id and bethesda i don't think they would be so different.

3-New IP: Best idea here, something i would like there is some easter eggs and references to Doom,Quake or whatever

[CatWithAComputer]

On 3/4/2021 at 1:39 PM, Stupid Bunny said:

I've wanted a new Commander Keen game since...well, Christmas '92 I guess.  I could see a fun and fast-paced third-person 3D platformer-shooter coming out of Keen.  The world is long overdue for more of Billy's adventures, and seeing whether the universe will be toast or not and all that.  The Keen modding community has of course done some amazing shit over the last 30 years but I'd love to see something official if it were done with even some of the heart and soul of the original games.

 

And no, cursed Bethesda Keen doesn't count

Bethesda's Keen game is a mobile game, big companies use mobile games just as a way of getting a bit of extra money with less effort.

[whatup876]

I think IF there ever is another Doom game, it might as well be another "take" on the series.

The absense of Mick Gordon might as well mean "reinventing" the wheel again and maybe even get a new team or just rid of Marty.

Sure, TAG has different composers but there's something about Mick's style that's "married" to the games and it could have been better if not for the treatment he got.

Plus if TAG2 (even with with people reacted and how id feels about it) means anything, the "Slayer phase" could at least be over and therefore a new phase would be more approciate, in a series that already changed iteration. (even if it feels a bit too soon to end or you think there could be still room for new ideas)

 

I think the (no longer lol) existence of the Keen mobile game comes from a bias regarding colorfull games or platforms.

Unless it's Mario, a remaster, an indie game or a licensed game, your kid game will be a limited project in a modern phone.

Speaking of indies, there has to be someone good at making platformers that would love to work in a Keen game.

[ZOMILE]

a new quake game Ö̸̢̡͔̖̤̬͍͙̠̝̠̥̦̈́̈́̿́̾͊̒͜F̴̡̡̡̭̱̯͇̹̱̟͚̥̼̖̈́̊ͅ ̴̢͚̘̫̥̦͕͙̯̺͛̃̒̀̽̀̍ͅF̷͍͓͎͙͍̙̬̟̠̝͔̄͊̊͝ͅU̵͇̯͒͌̎̊̉̚͜C̷̗̪͉͔̓̈̌́̓̐̋K̵̙̹̘͚̲̣̭͇̳̟͖͒̎̂Ḯ̷̠͖̹̏̓̐̽͂͂̀̓̏͋̄͘Ņ̵͎̇̽͂͋G̵̠͓͉̼̘̩̹͖͎̪̖̮̩̍́̒̋̄̍͆͋́͗̃͊ ̴̢̘̤̥̬̲̤̣̪͎́̉̏̈́̿͑́̍́͝Ċ̶̢̢͇̝̙̖͙̖̺̫͇̹̗͐̓O̴̻͇̻͕̘̙͓̝͖̼̯͗͐͒̒̐̐̏̏̄͛͛͌͗͗͜Ų̵̬̹̦̠̯͇̺̙̞̪͍̯̖̒́̂͝R̷̡̡̘̗̳͚͈͍̘̮̫̹̰̮͔͐̑̑͆͝S̵̱̓̾͑̇͐̋͛Ȩ̶̗̻̰̬͚͓͇͈̙͇̖͌͒͆̃͌̀͊̀

[indigotyrian]

On 7/10/2022 at 3:50 PM, Rudolph said:

The danger of not taking Nazi atrocities too seriously is that you may end up doing the same mistake as Blade of Agony, i.e. featuring a highly controversial level set inside a concentration camp where you encounter Itzhak Stern and battle a cartoon Josef Mengele.

 

The original Wolfenstein 3D involves a Josef Mengele stand-in who is the creator of an entire class of zombie enemy. One can only guess where the dead bodies that Schabbs used came from. Also worth noting that Nu-Wolf goes so far as to make its setting's Angela Davis expy the leader of the CIA, which I know for a fact pissed off a bunch of left-leaning fans who got interested in Nu-Wolf for its political veneer in the first place. The whole Blade of Agony debacle was and remains complete nonsense.

[Herr Dethnout]

20 minutes ago, segfault said:

 

The original Wolfenstein 3D involves a Josef Mengele stand-in who is the creator of an entire class of zombie enemy. One can only guess where the dead bodies that Schabbs used came from. Also worth noting that Nu-Wolf goes so far as to make its setting's Angela Davis expy the leader of the CIA, which I know for a fact pissed off a bunch of left-leaning fans who got interested in Nu-Wolf for its political veneer in the first place. The whole Blade of Agony debacle was and remains complete nonsense.

iirc theres was another controversy with BoA about the character Randy, with people acussing it of Transphobia and mockery (because is supposed to be Randy Heit, the creator of ZDoom), although Terminus came out to say that that reference was only in name, and he even didn't know that Randy (or Marissa) was a trans person, or something like that idk.

[indigotyrian]

4 minutes ago, Herr Dethnout said:

iirc theres was another controversy with BoA about the character Randy, with people acussing it of Transphobia and mockery (because is supposed to be Randy Heit, the creator of ZDoom), although Terminus came out to say that that reference was only in name, and he even didn't know that Randy (or Marissa) was a trans person, or something like that idk.

 

From what I gather like 10% of Blade of Agony's issues were people making honest mistakes like the above and 90% of it was just shit people were making up or interpreting in the worst faith possible in order to get angry.

[whatup876]

"Termimus", you mean Tormentor?

Terminus is the Demonsteele/Samsara/HND/etc guy who is moving away from Doom to focus on other stuff. (a really nice guy who had something unfortunate happen to him and i wish him the best)

 

I think Blade of Agony going too far just made it goofy because it's a cartoony Wolfenstein themed mod for Doom.

Reminds me of stories of Halo Machinima videos that tried to be serious or when people draw characters from cartoons crying over a real tragedy.

Maybe it's not even just the concepts but moreso what if it was an indie game with its own IP and setting instead of a playable Wolf fanfic sort of.

Someone will bring up arguements over art and taking risks but Blade of Agony felt like an odd place to do it.

 

Might be the same reason why Doom went with Urdak instead of namedropping Jesus and had that "just like a violent saturday morning cartoon" direction.

[Cantleylads]

On 11/21/2022 at 2:49 AM, CatWithAComputer said:

 

1-Doom game: It would be nice!

 

2-Quake reboot: I've seen many reboots of successful franchises and all they have done is throw everything down the drain... and knowing modern id and bethesda i don't think they would be so different.

 

You like modern id and Bethesda's Doom reboots. What would make a Quake reboot any different?

Edited November 22, 2022 by Cantleylads : Fixing a very poorly constructed sentence.

[whatup876]

When i think of the Mother Demon returning, i hope she gets a treatment that 2016 gave to Spider Mastermind and Cyberdemon, where her "moveset" feels expanded.

Specially after realizing that i (and some others) misremembered how her fire attack worked in 64: she shoots 3 fires split in a triangular-like angle and not 4 split in north/south/east/west directions.

But i like to think both versions of that attack could be in a game with a new version of her. (even if just to make it up for misremembering her or whatever)

 

You can also justify the idea of enemies attacking from other/multiple directions from where they're aiming/looking with this:

* it could lead to interesting infighting scenarios.

* would make co-op challenging.

* if a level has teleporters, it would mean the player still has to pay attention to enemy attacks.

* if an item like 2016's Hologram returned and worked against a Mother Demon or D3's Hell Guardian, they could still be a danger to players even if they're distracted.

 

Also, speaking of unused content, remember the Dark Claw?

I think some mods made it pink/red like it came from a Baron, when Doom has an iconic demon with only one arm: making it the Cyberdemon's lost arm would be clever.

Imagine a Cybie boss fight whose phase 1 is Wolf RPG's Harbinger of Doom and when he looses an arm, that fallen arm becomes a weapon for the player.

And to make things feel "authentic/sincere", this Harbinger attacks with similar abilities that the Dark Claw possess: it's like how the Sabaoth's BFG is essentially "the player tastes their own poison before using it against enemies".

If infighting where a thing and you consider the Dark Claw's premise (strong against pure demons, mid against cybernetic ones, weak against humans), when you could see the Harbinger easily take down an Archvile but not so much a zombie.