Dwelling - should I release this soon, GZ-compat only?

[KeaganDunn]

Dwelling is a single-level PWAD consisting of one giant MBF21 map for Doom II. 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/MBF21 [-complevel 21 for DSDA-Doom users. MBF21 is only supported in GZDoom v4.7 and above.]

 

In February 2021, I released Demonkind's Dwelling. After some time, I felt like I could've done a lot more with it, as a lot of areas were underdetailed and unused. The combat was mostly underwhelming for some players. In late April 2021, I began work on a complete revamp/redesign.

 

This project is aiming to be like a modern Sunder map, but not as long and a lot less linear. Similar to Lullaby in a sense, the difficulty of the map resides mostly in the larger setpieces, but there are bits of small-scale and incidental encounters as well. That being said, Dwelling will be pretty challenging, especially on UV. HNTR will be balanced for those looking for a more relaxed experience, but will still be pushed in some areas. HMP is by far the most fun and balanced, while UV is...quite demanding.

Essentially: You can expect a nonlinear map carried by unique combat setpieces, all wrapping around to a central hub area deep within the citadel. Should you locate the secrets, you might find some more niche stuff (platforming, puzzles, etc.) that might prove very rewarding.

 

Here's the brief:

Spoiler

Amidst a dark, drab city/town stands a large citadel that looms over everything nearby – sporting a threatening black and blue color scheme and various gothic architecture. It has not gone unnoticed; civilians have attempted to breach it but with little success. The origins of the citadel and its vast courtyard are unknown, too – no one knows how the hell this thing got here or what happened to the buildings that apparently occupied the area before. It is not without hostility, either – attempting to breach this stronghold and uncover its secrets will result in heavy resistance from demonkind, often in the form of unforgiving combat setpieces. In that sense...they must be waiting for you.

 

 

Comparison picture from a year's difference. Dwelling now resides at >40000 linedefs, >3000 monsters on UV, with 11 secrets.

Spoiler

 

Edited June 23 by KeaganDunn : update: considering release

[Walter confetti]

Looks really good! Good luck with the project!

Edited July 10, 2021 by Walter confetti

[KeaganDunn]

Little update. I might start rolling out a little piece of the map for testing via Discord/Doomworld PMs soon.

 

Map stats and status bar as of July 14, 2021, and a small view of the inside.

 

*cut images - outdated and hogging file attachment limit*

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Dunn (& Dunn)

[KeaganDunn]

Been a little while. My mapping has slowed to a crawl - I have little ideas and have considered retexturing and rebuilding some areas.
I've also had some other projects in the works: One of which is already released, and one that is somewhat Doom-related.

Although, so far, I can thank @RonnieJamesDiner for helping out and putting together the green cyberdemon for this project. They will be credited...just about everywhere this project shows up. haha

 

To compensate for the slow progress, here, have a pentagram. :v

 

[KeaganDunn]

Oops.

 

 

I've more recently come back to work on this beast (after all that charting). Some rooms are finally getting filled in. They may not be final, but I'm just happy stuff is getting done again. I've updated the info and screenshots in the original post - do have a look!

 

Also, graphic/music commissions for this project might finally be happening...

[Yandere_Doomer]

Holy... wow!

i almost confused this wad for Foursite at first.

i love the huge, heavily detailed indoor space.

[KeaganDunn]

I am offering a beta of Dwelling for private playtesting. Message me on Doomworld or Discord ( Dunn & Dunn#8435 ) if you're willing. 
Difficulties are implemented for the map but will need playtesting and further balancing, which I will greatly appreciate feedback/help on!

 

- I highly recommend a recorded playthrough (commentary or not) as it says a million more words than a paragraph, but you can still provide written feedback if you want.

- There is no exit, just yet. Playtesting will mostly be focused on the combat setpieces themselves.

- A shortened version of the Dwelling text file will be provided so you know what to expect.

- You will be added to the playtester list, which I hold in high regard ;P

- Estimated play time to get everything will be at least 1-2 hours for a blind playthrough.

- Please do not post the WAD publicly anywhere when I send you it. Please.

- Nothing is final!

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Dunn (& Dunn) : further info

[Electro Rage]

Hey, I just decided to ask: How is this doing? It's been 7 months and still no word? This really sounds interesting, and I'd really like to play it.

[KeaganDunn]

7 hours ago, Electro Rage said:

Hey, I just decided to ask: How is this doing? It's been 7 months and still no word? This really sounds interesting, and I'd really like to play it.

 

Hey! Thanks for checking in on this. I've been working on and off - sometimes the inspiration is there, sometimes it isn't. I was able to turn to Shades of Azure for shorter, less ambitious work, I've been obsessed with Detroit: Become Human and making videos of it, and recently started on a remaster of Bloodbath MAP06.

 

But I can definitely show off a few more things. I might roll out a new beta for private playtesting.

 

The main building is complete layout-wise. I just need to get around to making the finale, which hopefully will include a new custom boss monster...

 

 

 

[Electro Rage]

That looks great. Don't want to DWELL on it though! *bdum-tiss*

[Red Recluse]

Darkness under starlit space look like energy purty.Beautiful project.

[Red Recluse]

Don't work link please give another.

[i suck at nicknames]

following cuz i wanna play this :>

[KeaganDunn]

 

Ahh, how about that? A bit more of radio silence...but why? Interest in other things? General lack of motivation?

 

Or the fact that it took me a while to sit down and figure out the final boss of Dwelling, and make something happen...

[LadyMistDragon]

Just curious...is this still being worked on?

[KeaganDunn]

Indeed it is! I've only just gotten back into it, and only the final battle is what's left, aside from polishing the rest of the beast...

 

Hopefully this spring or June it will be out. I've been buckling down and finishing out projects before putting more focus on Adulthood™.

 

I would share more screenshots, but there may be quite a lot of changes in the coming months.

[KeaganDunn]

 

[KeaganDunn]

MARCH 16, 2024 - 8:13 PM

3 years and 40000 linedefs later, the "W1 Exit Level" linedef is finally placed in Dwelling.

 

Private playtesting will soon become available.

 

[KeaganDunn]

Dwelling is finished.

However, the final boss only works in GZDoom using DECORATE and some music is still needed. Decohack is proving to be a bitch to get working and may result in game-changing discrepancies between GZ and DSDA if I even manage to get it to work.

 

I've been wanting this behemoth out the door for the past two months already, so the next couple weeks will be crucial, at least for me.

 

The question: should I release this as a sort of GZDoom-compat-only beta? The map is finished, fully functioning, and ready for playtesting and feedback. But only in GZDoom with Default compatability, and part of me feels bad for releasing it this way, thereby losing some of the target audience.

 

 

[LadyMistDragon]

I don't see why not, to be honest!

[D4NUK1]

I have not problem with a map being only GZDoom compatible, because if they are made for working on that engine, better to use it instead of not releasing that.

[Xaser]

17 hours ago, KeaganDunn said:

However, the final boss only works in GZDoom using DECORATE and some music is still needed. Decohack is proving to be a bitch to get working and may result in game-changing discrepancies between GZ and DSDA if I even manage to get it to work.

 

What's wrong here exactly? You may be best off posting some example code (or the wad itself, in private somewhere) and see if things are fixable. There definitely shouldn't be any discrepancies between ports if you're using MBF21 features, unless there's a bug in GZDoom that needs fixing.

[The Final Event]

Paraphrasing what I've already said privately but you've made it very clear that you want to move on from this project as soon as possible. If I was in your shoes, I'd forgo DSDA compatibility and just release it as soon as possible. Due to MBF21 usage, the number of compatible ports is already extremely limited, dropping the number from 2 to 1 is a very minute sacrifice that would bring the closure of this project into fruition faster. It's easy to get caught up in perfection and the widening scope of ambition but nothing made by a human will ever live up to either of those things, finished is better than perfect because perfect is never finished

 

"Paraphrasing" was a stretch lmao i think this is longer than what i said initially

[Not Jabba]

Yeah, even just looking at the screenshots I can see how you kinda "intended" for this to be Boom or MBF21 in spirit...but at the same time, if you really can't get this boss to work in Dehacked+, that means your intentions for your map depend on a GZDoom feature, so obviously that feature is important, and you should really just release it for GZDoom and not feel guilty about it. Although like Xaser said, there may be a simpler conversion fix you haven't figured out yet.

[Andromeda]

1 hour ago, The Final Event said:

Due to MBF21 usage, the number of compatible ports is already extremely limited, dropping the number from 2 to 1 is a very minute sacrifice that would bring the closure of this project into fruition faster.

While I understand and agree with your overall point, several source ports support MBF21 already with more expected to implement it in the future.

Edited June 23 by Andromeda

[KeaganDunn]

1 hour ago, Xaser said:

 

What's wrong here exactly? You may be best off posting some example code (or the wad itself, in private somewhere) and see if things are fixable. There definitely shouldn't be any discrepancies between ports if you're using MBF21 features, unless there's a bug in GZDoom that needs fixing.

 

Basically I've designed the final boss in DECORATE first - it was the easiest and most fun, and I was able to learn DECORATE on my own accord. But some of his attacks and perhaps more may not be possible in decohack due to flags like +FLOORHUGGER not existing. I've had some help from Jimmy in learning how to write and compile decohack code, thereby getting the boss moving and functioning in DSDA at the very least. But I may have to put together entirely new attacks, or just make it GZ-compat if it takes more time than I'm willing. Ultimately that's just poor planning on my part, but I'll appreciate any help in making the final boss work as close as possible in DSDA to what I've made in GZ. If you're up for helping, I can send it over in Discord and we can work things out. :)

[Xaser]

Sure, send it over -- if it does just turn out to be a "can't do it without compromising the vision" thing, then that's a fine reason to stick to GZDoom and company, but depending on the setup there may be a couple of things that could be done.

 

(That said, do use ZScript over DECORATE unless you also want Zandronum compatibility for co-op shenanigans. If co-op is already a target, though, then just run with it if you've already got that working.)

[EduardoAndFriends]

I’d love to take a look at it even in its Gz-only current state, it looks proper tasty 😌 if you want any private feedback etc or want someone to run at any specific areas to see how they go through fresh eyes hit me up, eh.