HERETIC - Wrath of the Titans (Released) [Heretic-Plus / Crossport]

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

Here is a full Heretic episode for you to peruse.  8 revised editions of my prior released maps to update the visuals and gameplay, plus 1 never before released one (E2M2).  The minimum target EXE is Heretic-Plus with HHE but map definitions for ZDoom, Doomsday and Eternity have also been included.  Designed primarily for single-player but two-player co-op was tested as well.

 

Released: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/heretic/Ports/titans

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by ETTiNGRiNDER : Belatedly, it's been idgamesed

[rzh]

Just finished the first map 100% and started the second.

So far, really nice, with good usage of vanilla textures and some really great and fitting custom textures.

The aesthetic of the levels reminds me of Hexen/ Deathkings without straying too far from Heretic (more like a shout-out than an influence).

I'm not able to get the .HHE to work with Crispy Heretic, but I'm not sure yet what the problem might be.

I really liked that so far this follows all of the unspoken rules of the OG Heretic levels, since most people don't bother with them (key order, secrets only accessible with Wings of Wrath and so on).

Combat is challenging, but manageable and there are some neat encounters.

Also, using crushers which is both underrated and a hallmark of OG level design is another big +, especially since they're not frustrating or everywhere, just a trap to look out for.

[NaliSeed]

Oh, goody, more Heretic 😋

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

6 hours ago, rzh said:

I'm not able to get the .HHE to work with Crispy Heretic, but I'm not sure yet what the problem might be.

Did you use the "-hhever 1.3" parameter?

Otherwise I'm going to guess it might be disliking that I manually edited the patch file or something.  I find that HHE support in the Chocolate ports is a bit spotty but usually text reassignment is OK.

[rzh]

1 hour ago, ETTiNGRiNDER said:

Did you use the "-hhever 1.3" parameter?

Otherwise I'm going to guess it might be disliking that I manually edited the patch file or something.  I find that HHE support in the Chocolate ports is a bit spotty but usually text reassignment is OK.

Yep, full command line was -file .\wads\titans.wad -hhever 1.3 -deh .\wads\titans.hhe -savedir .\savedir\titans

I get this error:

Without -hhever 1.3 it just fails to parse the dehacked file.

Playing it on the latest version of Crispy (built from the latest commit).

Haven't tried Choco because I admit I don't use it on a regular basis, I don't have it installed atm and this WAD is limit-removing.

Still, it might be worth checking out if the behaviour between Choco and Crispy is the same.

Edit: same happens if the WAD is run with -merge instead of -file

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

@rzh

Remove this bit from the patch file and see if it works then:

Text 7476 7
FLAT516

This is intended to change the flat used for the background of the finale screen, but the port might be wrongly changing the name in animation definitions.

[Clippy]

I did not mean to post this thread in fact I have no idea how I ended up in this thread

 

My phone is fucked up. Sorry guys just disregard or delete this

Edited August 9, 2022 by Clippy

[Lippeth]

Took me longer than I want to admit to successfully run it with HHE in DOSBox, I don't even know DeHackEd all that well, but once I started thinking about HHE in the same way it fell into place (I wasn't loading the actual hhe file when running the wad with the modified exe). Anywhey, wonderful episode so far! I've only gotten through the first three maps so I'll comment again once I finish to give my full thoughts, but it's masterfully done so far.

[rzh]

4 hours ago, ETTiNGRiNDER said:

@rzh

Remove this bit from the patch file and see if it works then:

Text 7476 7
FLAT516

This is intended to change the flat used for the background of the finale screen, but the port might be wrongly changing the name in animation definitions.

That worked perfectly, I'm assuming this is a port issue so I will report it soon, but this does nicely as a workaround.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

5 hours ago, rzh said:

That worked perfectly, I'm assuming this is a port issue so I will report it soon, but this does nicely as a workaround.

Definitely a port bug as it seemed to work fine when patching Heretic-Plus.  Unfortunately the HHE program was basically left unfinished and has a lot of obtuse/wrong stuff about it; I suspect that the HHE patch support that's in Chocolate and derivatives basically looked at the small pool of pre-existing patches that are out there (there's probably fewer than ten, even less that do anything beyond rename maps) and then just assumed how it "should" work for the rest of the functions rather than doing any empirical testing.  Even I, who have been doing empirical testing of what HHE does and can do, haven't fully mapped out all the more obscure stuff like codepointer reassignments.

 

If you want to make the bug report, please feel free, otherwise I'll stick it on my to-do list along with the other stuff I wanted to report on at some point.

[Lippeth]

Just popping back in to say that I'm still chipping away at this and really enjoying it. I feel the need to take breaks often because these maps are fairly large with nonstop action, and resource management is tight enough (at least without finding many secrets) that I end up doing things like reloading the game until I can get a disciple to drop an extra tome. I've especially enjoyed how caves and cliffs are laid out. I'm only just now on e2m7 but it's been a real action packed adventure so far.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Lippeth

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

1 hour ago, Lippeth said:

Just popping back in to say that I'm still chipping away at this and really enjoying it. I feel the need to take breaks often because these maps are fairly large with nonstop action, and resource management is tight enough (at least without finding many secrets) that I end up doing things like reloading the game until I can get a disciple to drop an extra tome. I've especially enjoyed how caves and cliffs are laid out. I'm only just now on e1m7 but it's been a real action packed adventure so far.

Thanks!  I assume you're playing on Smite-Meister?  A common criticism of previous releases of the maps was that they were too stingy with ammo and items, so I had made it a point to be a bit more generous with them, but maybe it could still use a little tweaking in that regard.

[Lippeth]

Part of it could be my fault for not playing continuously due to switching ports between every map, but yeah I've only played on smite-meister so far. I wouldn't say that items or ammo are too stingy per se because I always seem to find something right about when things start getting desperate, but I also tend to chew through artifacts and ammo pretty quickly and about halfway through each map I can easily find myself with no artifacts at all and relying on random drops from enemies for ammo.

 

With ammo it might just be that a lot of it is in less obvious places because I can always find just enough if I explore a little, but with the amount of enemies around each corner I tend to do a mad dash to stock up and then chew through it all just as fast as I found it. I think that if I were to take the time to find more secret areas things wouldn't be so tense, but the constant opposition could be distracting me from even looking.

 

Overall It's right about at my threshold for difficulty while still driving me forward without getting frustrated. I won't complain if there was a bit more ammo and artifacts out in the open, but as it is currently, I was never completely out of options and just seeing the exit in maps five and six did set off a good amount of dopamine and all the good feelings of video game accomplishment. If bringest them oneth is at all easier or more generous with items then I would say smite-meister is perfect.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

@Lippeth

Any of the maps should be beatable as self-contained maps from a wand start on any skill level, but the later ones will definitely be harder that way.  It is true that for the hard setting my strategy was to do playthroughs and insert additional ammo at points where I started to run out so it's not just your imagination if it feels that way.  As for the skill settings, I can't remember off the top of my head every strategy I applied when adjusting the flags and where, but the lower skills should have more health and ammo available as well as some monster adjustments (I often changed ghost monsters to their non-ghost equivalents for lower skills in addition to removing a few of the nastier ones.)

[rzh]

On 8/10/2022 at 3:16 AM, ETTiNGRiNDER said:

If you want to make the bug report, please feel free, otherwise I'll stick it on my to-do list along with the other stuff I wanted to report on at some point.

I'd rather wait for you to do it then, since I've never worked with HHE and you're probably 10 times more capable than me to give out detailed information about this issue.

Getting back to the release, I finished the WAD on Bringest them oneth and I'm replaying it on Black Plague now (both times with Wand starts).

That secret level is really something, is it the longest map in the set or does it simply feel like it?

I also liked the boss fight, but the minotaurs were pretty easy to cheese by exploiting the gaps in the center with tomed hellstaff.

Overall, great release, haven't had this much fun in Heretic since Dungeons and monsters.

The custom textures were great all the way through.

Any plans on making a Hexen hub?

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

6 hours ago, rzh said:

That secret level is really something, is it the longest map in the set or does it simply feel like it?

Not sure if it's the longest per se if you're just trying to run to the exit, but I'm pretty sure it has the highest monster count.

 

6 hours ago, rzh said:

Any plans on making a Hexen hub?

Maybe.  I have a bunch of material for one on my HD but it's not as complete or organized as this is so would take a bunch of additional mapping to actually make it into something finished.

 

6 hours ago, rzh said:

I'd rather wait for you to do it then, since I've never worked with HHE and you're probably 10 times more capable than me to give out detailed information about this issue.

Noted, I'll see about getting a comprehensive look at the problem.

[Shanoa]

Gonna download this, just more Heretic goodness to add to my library of wads to play.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

I've been putting this off for far to long, but I've put a new version on the first post.  I'll give people over the weekend to check and make sure that I didn't somehow introduce any egregious bugs, then I'll see about sending it to idgames.

 

The fixes are mostly cosmetic, as follows:

Spoiler

M2 - Enemy teleports in faster after blue key grab.
M3 - Fixed some misalignments.  Adjusted end of level for better continuity with M4.
M4 - Adjusted some alignments.  Adjusted start of level for better continuity with M3.
M5 - Fixed some misalignments.
M6 - Fixed some misalignments.  Added wall torches to the glowing sectors on the throne approach.
M7 - Fixed some misalignments.
M9 - Fixed missing lower textures along exit pool (when pillar drops)
HHE - Removed the bit that changed the end screen flat.  I did eventually report the bug to the Chocolate devs but they don't seem to be in any hurry to fix it.