[Community Project] - Release candidate 3 available! Alphabet Doom, for Doom 2 limit-removing

[RED77]

Listen @Rabbid I'm a good sportsman. And I don't mind harsh critics. But in the future consider chilling a little bit. 
I'll take your feedback into consideration as any other feedback I'll receive. My goal is to deliver a good map. 
But, maybe I'm in the wrong here, most of us are here for the fun and joy of the community.

I Test all my maps at least 5 times for each difficulty with pistol start before publishing and I was able to beat it fine (I'm not that skilled of a player)
But I can see your points and I'll apply some of the changes that can make the map a better fit for more players.

Once again. I don't want to pick a fight. Just take your time and read once again your feedback and ask yourself if that's the way you talk for the first time to anyone.

I don't think it's in bad Faith. Thanks for the review. I'll wait for more people to implement all changes all at once.

[Rabbid]

1 minute ago, RED77 said:

Listen @Rabbid I'm a good sportsman. And I don't mind harsh critics. But in the future consider chilling a little bit. 
I'll take your feedback into consideration as any other feedback I'll receive. My goal is to deliver a good map. 
But, maybe I'm in the wrong here, most of us are here for the fun and joy of the community.

I Test all my maps at least 5 times for each difficulty with pistol start before publishing and I was able to beat it fine (I'm not that skilled of a player)
But I can see your points and I'll apply some of the changes that can make the map a better fit for more players.

Once again. I don't want to pick a fight. Just take your time and read once again your feedback and ask yourself if that's the way you talk for the first time to anyone.

I don't think it's in bad Faith. Thanks for the review. I'll wait for more people to implement all changes all at once.

I was not being rude at all I was trying to stay as calm as possible? plus like everybody beats it pistol start while I can't... infighting is just boring imo...

also I obviously don't talk like that immediately... I wouldn't get anywhere like that...I was just kina being honest, I can chill out if thats a issue...

[Rabbid]

I wasn't trying to be harsh if I was...

[RileyXY1]

The M and S maps now have their names, which are Military Complex and Silent Castle respectively.

[Rabbid]

Noice

[aRottenKomquat]

5 hours ago, RED77 said:

Well. Here's the first version for MAP06 (F)
 

• Map Slot: 06 (F)
• Map Name: FEAR FACTORY
• Mapper Name: RED77
• MIDI: "Running Through the Lands" by @R0rque.
• Download: (ALPHABET_DOOM)FEAR_FACTORY_BY_RED77.wad
• Screenshots: 
   

  Reveal hidden contents

Hope you like it!

 

First off, the visuals are fantastic! This might be the best-looking map submitted so far, I love that. All the movement is visually very compelling.

 

But the difficulty on UV seems impossible, or I'm missing something or doing it out-of-sequence (highly possible). By the time I get away from the yellow key, I have absolutely no ammo. I ended up ditching the Pain Elementals and running past all the imps, hoping for relief in the yellow key door, but I opened that to be ambushed by Arch-Viles and literally 0 ammo.

 

I think it might work out if there was a berserk somewhere before triggering the yellow key trap. Being able to melee all those imps (and maybe even the Revenants -- I think there's enough cover and maneuvering room to beat them in a punch-out) might bring it down to the difficulty level of the other maps so far. (Plus I kind of enjoy going on berserk rampages, but that's just me.) Barring that, it might need a couple extra boxes of shells.

[aRottenKomquat]

1 hour ago, aRottenKomquat said:

 

First off, the visuals are fantastic! This might be the best-looking map submitted so far, I love that. All the movement is visually very compelling.

 

But the difficulty on UV seems impossible, or I'm missing something or doing it out-of-sequence (highly possible). By the time I get away from the yellow key, I have absolutely no ammo. I ended up ditching the Pain Elementals and running past all the imps, hoping for relief in the yellow key door, but I opened that to be ambushed by Arch-Viles and literally 0 ammo.

 

I think it might work out if there was a berserk somewhere before triggering the yellow key trap. Being able to melee all those imps (and maybe even the Revenants -- I think there's enough cover and maneuvering room to beat them in a punch-out) might bring it down to the difficulty level of the other maps so far. (Plus I kind of enjoy going on berserk rampages, but that's just me.) Barring that, it might need a couple extra boxes of shells.

 

After a few more playthroughs, I almost beat it once, but ended up getting zapped by two Arch-Viles at the same time with no room to escape. The winning strategy appears to be to ignore everything and rush through the level so you have enough shells to make it to the plasma gun, while trying to strategically set up some infighting that's actually a bit difficult to do effectively, and pray to the RNG gods. If I'd been able to hit the exit switch, I'd have ended it with less than ten kills. I still think it's too difficult though. I think even one extra box of shells early on would make a huge difference.

 

I am surprised at how small the level is. It doesn't look that small, and doesn't even feel that cramped even though it is. It's divided up so well, and in a way that makes you think the level will keep going. For sure this will be one I need to study just to improve my own skills as a mapper.

[BedrockCastle]

Map Slot: 11 (K)

Map Name: 'Kay, Then

Mapper Name: BedrockCastle

MIDI Name: "John the Fisherman" by Primus

 

Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by BedrockCastle : edited download link

[spineapple tea]

8 hours ago, RED77 said:

Well. Here's the first version for MAP06 (F)
 

• Map Slot: 06 (F)
• Map Name: FEAR FACTORY
• Mapper Name: RED77
• MIDI: "Running Through the Lands" by @R0rque.
• Download: (ALPHABET_DOOM)FEAR_FACTORY_BY_RED77.wad
• Screenshots: 
   

  Reveal hidden contents

Hope you like it!

Attempt 121 was when I finally got an exit. (Note: I'm a brain-dead moron who recorded this in Woof without setting the complevel, so it's MBF21 if you want to play it back).

 

I really mean it when I say take this as nicely as possible: this map is fucking evil and I love it. It took me nearly two(?) hours of stressful infighting and restarts just to finally get this on UV. Something about this map's absolute cruelty is honestly inspiring. The key isn't to rush everything like @aRottenKomquat said, it's to patiently make everything kill each other so you have enough ammo for the archviles. Maybe I'm just weird, but these kinds of short levels that can take hours to finish due to their difficult really appeal to me. Bravo.

[RED77]

Hello Guys.
After reading your feedback I've to agree that the gameplay was badly balanced, especially in Hard mode. (and more so, thinking of a Map06)
So I came around with a second version that, I think, solves this issue. 
(ALPHABET_DOOM)FEAR_FACTORY_V2.0_BY_RED77.wad
Thanks a lot: @Rabbid, @aRottenKomquat, and @spineapple tea (Man, I appreciate you like it, but clearly that HardMode is a mess, lol)
Of course, I will adjust further if it's necessary
 

13 hours ago, RED77 said:

Well. Here's the first version for MAP06 (F)
 

• Map Slot: 06 (F)
• Map Name: FEAR FACTORY
• Mapper Name: RED77
• MIDI: "Running Through the Lands" by @R0rque.
• Download: (ALPHABET_DOOM)FEAR_FACTORY_BY_RED77.wad
• Screenshots: 
   

  Reveal hidden contents

Hope you like it!

[Rabbid]

7 hours ago, aRottenKomquat said:

 

After a few more playthroughs, I almost beat it once, but ended up getting zapped by two Arch-Viles at the same time with no room to escape. The winning strategy appears to be to ignore everything and rush through the level so you have enough shells to make it to the plasma gun, while trying to strategically set up some infighting that's actually a bit difficult to do effectively, and pray to the RNG gods. If I'd been able to hit the exit switch, I'd have ended it with less than ten kills. I still think it's too difficult though. I think even one extra box of shells early on would make a huge difference.

 

I am surprised at how small the level is. It doesn't look that small, and doesn't even feel that cramped even though it is. It's divided up so well, and in a way that makes you think the level will keep going. For sure this will be one I need to study just to improve my own skills as a mapper.

Thats what I said!

[Rabbid]

1 hour ago, RED77 said:

Hello Guys.
After reading your feedback I've to agree that the gameplay was badly balanced, especially in Hard mode. (and more so, thinking of a Map06)
So I came around with a second version that, I think, solves this issue. 
(ALPHABET_DOOM)FEAR_FACTORY_V2.0_BY_RED77.wad
Thanks a lot: @Rabbid, @aRottenKomquat, and @spineapple tea (Man, I appreciate you like it, but clearly that HardMode is a mess, lol)
Of course, I will adjust further if it's necessary
 

alright... I will be nicer this time...

[RED77]

A Very straightforward map. I like the simplicity but I'll give some kind of variety somehow.
One thing: On DSDA Doom (-complevel 2) runs perfectly, but I've tried it on GZdoom also and the north row of teleporters does not seem to work, so it's impossible to have 100% kills. I'll suggest checking that cause most people use GZdoom more than any other source port. 

 

7 hours ago, BedrockCastle said:

Map Slot: 11 (K)

Map Name: 'Kay, Then

Mapper Name: BedrockCastle

MIDI Name: "John the Fisherman" by Primus

 

Screenshots:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

[BedrockCastle]

2 hours ago, RED77 said:

One thing: On DSDA Doom (-complevel 2) runs perfectly, but I've tried it on GZdoom also and the north row of teleporters does not seem to work, so it's impossible to have 100% kills. I'll suggest checking that cause most people use GZdoom more than any other source port.

 

Noted. I'll try to fix that soon.

[aRottenKomquat]

10 hours ago, spineapple tea said:

I really mean it when I say take this as nicely as possible: this map is fucking evil and I love it. It took me nearly two(?) hours of stressful infighting and restarts just to finally get this on UV. Something about this map's absolute cruelty is honestly inspiring. ... Maybe I'm just weird, but these kinds of short levels that can take hours to finish due to their difficult really appeal to me. Bravo.

 

This is one to keep for the reasons spineapple listed, but this WAD isn't the right project for it (at least as a non-secret level). This has me considering an outtakes companion WAD for this project, which includes earlier versions of included maps that are interesting in their own right, but just didn't fit as-is. I'll have to see how future submissions go to decide if that'll work or not. It could be a fit for another community project as well, if there's ever one for short and extra-hard maps.

[Proxy-MIDI]

@Lorcav Hello there ! Here comes the MIDI file. Normally, some instruments will have a reverb effect so don't worry about that. ;)

P.S : Tell me if something's wrong with the audio mixing. 

Lorcav song.zip

[Lorcav]

3 hours ago, R0rque. said:

@Lorcav Hello there ! Here comes the MIDI file. Normally, some instruments will have a reverb effect so don't worry about that. ;)
 

 

Awesome and well timed, I'm doing the last of my playtesting this evening so I'll drop the midi in and see how it fits!

[Vladguy]

Something tells me this might be harder than it looks.

 

Spoiler

 

[Lorcav]

 

 

Map Slot:17 (Q)
Map Name: Qaverns and Qorridors
Mapper Name: Lorcav
Map Music: Find Some Treasure in the Depths of the Cavern by @R0rque.

 

Happy to get any feedback

 

Screenshot:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Lorcav : Duplicate image

[Rabbid]

Just finished play testing the maps and I am glad to say I am more happy than I was last time... though I will admit at the end of Q the battle did kind of anger me... but otherwise in maps F and Q I saw major improvements from the first time I played them...but I will say... I still couldn't find the way to get the megasphere in F...so uh...


F for me

anyway I am glad to say Q and F are both now full S'... and yeah I will admit I was a little harsh on F before... so in its older grade I will be making that grade a C instead of a F... though I think its funnier if it was F...doesn't matter I need to be serious here but I'm grading from S-F here, F is it failed and D is it got in atleast? idk...

now onto K...
I don't need to mention yeah it was impossible for me to 100% but I shouldn't need to someone else already said so...
but otherwise its a small and very action packed map... not gonna lie I was a slight bit scared at the end with the revenants...but...its a really good map besides that one bug... the health is small which is pretty good for the map... so I will give it a uh... I guess S- I personally liked it...but if you are talking about in theme... well its a little sad its a mid game level not a start level but it still gets a S- just because I couldn't really find many faults with it that aren't said...

Btw I should say
F = it probably should be fixed in some of the places (NOT ALL, all maps will have issues)
E = HOW DID YOU GET THIS YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE THIS XD (aka I just won't get this out...unless it feels fitting enough...so most likely only on E... also if it is... its a A but I put E because yeah...
D = I would say you got it, but its more of a consolation prize
C = pretty much the mid grade, the grade every map should try and get...
B = its a really good map in everything I could find...this will also probably be the average
A = its above average and it definitely feels good to play through
S = it mostly excels at what it does... oh and also if I feel I was rude to the map/mapper in the past...so while F has issues (no map is perfect) it meets both criteria...
Remember I'm only grading the map based off A and C...how much they feel like they fit the theme and or they just look good...

F definitely has that under its belt its probably the best designed so far...the crushers while annoying (they are crushers) they atleast feel like actual pistons, the area feels real, it looks nice too... obviously in real like if would probably be bigger than a F (hell if the creator of this CP allowed it I would say to make this into a full sized map... you can use the first version for this room just don't make it the starter room lol)

But Now I have to unfortunately talk about some issues... most of these I wouldn't bother fixing...
F: at the start the texture under the door isn't the same... it wouldn't be noticable without mouselook and its barely noticable so I will let it slide...this next one MIGHT need a fix though...I didn't notice it but uh Naza ironman guy did...uh if you do it right you can kind of skip the blue key and exit early... I noticed this in the new one... obviously it would take too long to fix so leave it... and plus most maps are not always... just outstanding
Q: due to the new details it can be a little more difficult... BUT its a late map... so I don't mind as much as F
K: uh it was just said already...

Otherwise these maps all get a S as they are above what I expected...F got it because due to the fixes its now tolerable and still well designed...

and if I angered anybody with this rating or a older rating I am sorry I didn't mean to... i'm going to sound like mount pain, but remember i'm grading the maps only, not you as a person and its not the end of the word, keep mapping and keep improving...

anyway thats that I guess...

oh and I also just found out that I probably played Q less than a HOUR after it was put here XD

Edited January 12, 2023 by Rabbid

[RED77]

Hey @Rabbid. Thanks once again for the feedback. No hard feelings, I appreciate the effort in the long detailed reviews.

About the blue key scape, I'm curious. The only thing that comes to mind it's a very precise Archvile jump (?) Let me know if that's the case or if anything I didn't notice and I'll fix it.
About the megasphere secret:
 

Spoiler

There's a small button hidden on one of the pillars in front of the yellow key pond that open a vent on the begining area

What do you think? too obscure? My line of thought was: Big reward - Harder to find.

[aRottenKomquat]

20 hours ago, BedrockCastle said:

Map Slot: 11 (K)

Map Name: 'Kay, Then

Mapper Name: BedrockCastle

MIDI Name: "John the Fisherman" by Primus

 

Screenshots:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Simple and straightforward. Fairly difficult, and quite RNG-dependent (I had some runs where I was <20% health after clearing the initial hitscanners, and others where I never took a single hit), but it's so short that retries due to unlucky RNG are not frustrating at all. The final wave was pretty challenging and took me out several times before I finished.

 

I didn't run into whatever issue it supposedly had on GZDoom (I'm on 4.8.2 at the moment).

 

The teleporters confused me, I kept wondering why they were there. Then I found out. :)

 

I also love the name. It's just funny to me.

Edited January 12, 2023 by aRottenKomquat

[Rabbid]

Kinda thought there was a switch on the wall... but maybe it could be slightly obvious... (maybe like a very tiny arrow or make it slightly bigger, otherwise now that I found it I feel a little stupid... doesn't matter about the blue key thing... nope, its not a archvile jump... infact all you need to do is run to inbetween the 2 walls and press use...I show it off in this video...sorry for low quality btw I have a very weak PC...also yes I used Final Doomer For it... excuse that lol...it works in vanilla too.
 

 

[aRottenKomquat]

14 hours ago, RED77 said:

Hello Guys.
After reading your feedback I've to agree that the gameplay was badly balanced, especially in Hard mode. (and more so, thinking of a Map06)
So I came around with a second version that, I think, solves this issue. 
(ALPHABET_DOOM)FEAR_FACTORY_V2.0_BY_RED77.wad
Thanks a lot: @Rabbid, @aRottenKomquat, and @spineapple tea (Man, I appreciate you like it, but clearly that HardMode is a mess, lol)
Of course, I will adjust further if it's necessary
 

 

That's quite a difference. I beat it on the first try on UV without too much difficulty. It might even be too easy on UV. It seems like you reduced monster count as well as adding ammo? My suggestion is to keep ammo the same and bump the monster count up a bit. (I think the original two Arch-Viles behind the yellow door were fine on UV as long as you had the ammo to deal with them). That said, this works and doesn't have the frustration issues the first version had. I'll leave it up to you on if you want to do another revision. I don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking or being difficult. Especially not on something that is about 50% jokewad in nature.

 

Thanks for the revision!

[BedrockCastle]

Hey, @RED77 and @Rabbid - I just tested my map in GZDoom with Doom (Strict) compatibility, and all the teleporters worked fine. @aRottenKomquat didn't have the issue either, so I think this is a problem on your ends. Are you sure you're using the right compatibility settings in GZ?

[Rabbid]

Just now, BedrockCastle said:

Hey, @RED77 and @Rabbid - I just tested my map in GZDoom with Doom (Strict) compatibility, and all the teleporters worked fine. @aRottenKomquat didn't have the issue either, so I think this is a problem on your ends. Are you sure you're using the right compatibility settings in GZ?

no definitely not XD I can try it in PRboom if you'd like...

[RED77]

1 minute ago, BedrockCastle said:

Hey, @RED77 and @Rabbid - I just tested my map in GZDoom with Doom (Strict) compatibility, and all the teleporters worked fine. @aRottenKomquat didn't have the issue either, so I think this is a problem on your ends. Are you sure you're using the right compatibility settings in GZ?

Oh! I have it on default. Maybe that's the problem.

 

[BedrockCastle]

1 minute ago, Rabbid said:

no definitely not XD I can try it in PRboom if you'd like...

 

Go ahead, if you wish.

[Rabbid]

Just now, RED77 said:

Oh! I have it on default. Maybe that's the problem.

 

lol same and I don't plan on changing it.

[BedrockCastle]

2 minutes ago, RED77 said:

Oh! I have it on default. Maybe that's the problem.

 

 

I just played through it with Default compatibility, and that is the issue as far as I can tell. Only one teleporter works on that setting.