Vice Laboratory: One Level Wad for Doom II

[LittleDuck]

Hello! It has been 2 years since I have been on the forums, but I have been getting on and off of doom mapping over the past few months. I haven't made many finished maps in the last few months, but this map is mostly finished, so I'm gonna upload it.

 

I did make this map for a megawad project, but I decided that it was too much to manage, so I ended the project. This is made to be a limit removed map, doubt it would work on pure vanilla due to visplanes but it doesn't add any new gameplay features. I am really happy with this map, but I want to see what others think so I can improve and stay motivated to map.

 

IWAD: Doom II

Map: Map01

Compatibility: Limit-Removing ports

Custom Assets/Sounds: None

Difficulty: Not super easy, but not super hard. Doesn't use many high tier enemies but uses a good amount of low tier ones. Difficulty implementation wasn't added yet, so all difficulties will have 140 enemies.

 

(NoMo) Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

Wad: ViceLab.zip

 

[Tactical Burger (Old acc)]

Pros:
Outside area looked ok

One building reminded me of the crewmate/impostor from among us

 

Cons:

It was a bit too easy

The visuals were... tnt-ish

A lot of misaligned textures

I fink is a cheese

I can tell you aren't that experienced in doom mapping but you did an ok job on this map. I would give it overall a 6/10

 

[LittleDuck]

Oof, now that I look at the map on doombuilder it is so painfully obvious how many misaligned textures there are. Should've spent more time on texturing instead of rushing it. Will check the texturing more carefully the next time I map. I am still fairly new to mapping yes.

[Biodegradable]

 

[LadyMistDragon]

Not too bad. :) But in addition to some annoying Revenant chaingunning (there is a Super Shotgun after all), monsters seemed stuffed in corridors for their own sake. As a result, ammo could've been a little better. But detailing is quite adequate and an open ending like is here was nice. Otherwise, keep at it!

 

 

 

[baja blast rd.]

FDA: 

 

 

Some interesting progression ideas here like raising/lowering bridges and the whole ending area. Nice directional lighting and you have a solid handle on architecture and being able to use multiple textures (although yeah as you mentioned alignment could be much better).

 

On the gameplay front, the opposition tends to be heavy in stuff you're clearing out in front of you, without anything really hitting you from multiple directions, which makes combat feel like a static clear-out at times. 

 

With the amount of mid-tier enemies later on you could probably introduce a bigger weapon at some point (RL, PR, or SSG). Progression hits CG early but just stops there. You mentioned it was for a project which might explain that, but even within a mapset, an early big gun isn't going to be a bad thing for the overall progression arc. 

 

As usual, I tried to make it interesting by playing riskily and not killing every monster, but the combo of that and weaker weapons leads to more static gameplay.   

 

Some options come to mind to freshen up this sort of gameplay (1 or 2 of these would be enough, not all!): 

 

- the occasional barrel here and there can be really fun to blow stuff up with

- going lighter on meaty enemies (HKs, pinkies, cacos); based on where they are deployed, a lot of those don't really get to play to their tactical strengths, and with weak weapons, they are grind of grindy to fight

- going lighter on enemies that are directly placed in the layout, and using a few more traps instead

- using a few more turrets/cages -- you know, 'static placements' -- so that monsters you place keep their positional advantages instead of clumping up where they are easily picked off

- also mentioned this before, but a RL and several rockets or something like that

- berserk pack would also work

- could inject more of a "play to enemies' strengths" approach where it would work, like using pinkies to pincer the player from two directions, saving the cacos for places they can roam over height levels 

- or alternatively play more of a "pure fun" approach where that would work. since the weapons are shotgun and chaingun, that would suggest a higher % of enemies being weaker (there are several+ enemy use paradigms, those are probably the two most basic ones for this sort of map)

 

Also a couple bugs: got one secret flagged as two early. The other secret (which doesn't contain anything) glitched, because the shootswitch opens three sectors instead of just the door.

[RastaManGames]

It was sad do see various mapper's mistakes as badly aligned textures or wrong choose of FLATs (GR secret which gonna be mentioned below, has one, at the very least).

Some pillars with "COMPBLUE" texture might need some proper work with addition of some vertices in a way to properly align that gray texture. If you want - I can show later what I mean by that.

 

There was an really sad GR secret. I am big fan of this trigger, but seems that you messed something up, since secret was opened, but I wasn't able to enter. You should check it out and also seems that there wasn't anything inside.

Another secret was missed, but since this brick texture has a several variations of it, you might use some of them to mark this secret, because for now there isn't any indications of "marks" that can lead to it.

 

Overall, while playing there was one big thought on my mind: "Oh, boy... It feels kinda sloggish with all those Pinkies, tons of Imps and also Cacos with Fatsos. I wish there can be an SSG or RL."

It might be just me, but some places was really a bit too "meaty" and due to that - kinda boring to make my way thru them.

 

Also, pre-final elevator that leads to teleporter might use some kind of switch structure, since texture itself wasn't that obvious and I spent some time in a way to find the right path to the last areas of the level.

 

In the end, for now I can give this map only [★★★☆☆].

It wasn't that bad, but it needs more work in a way to fix some of errors that was made during creation process.

 

 

[LittleDuck]

21 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

Some options come to mind to freshen up this sort of gameplay (1 or 2 of these would be enough, not all!): 

 

- the occasional barrel here and there can be really fun to blow stuff up with

- going lighter on meaty enemies (HKs, pinkies, cacos); based on where they are deployed, a lot of those don't really get to play to their tactical strengths, and with weak weapons, they are grind of grindy to fight

- going lighter on enemies that are directly placed in the layout, and using a few more traps instead

- using a few more turrets/cages -- you know, 'static placements' -- so that monsters you place keep their positional advantages instead of clumping up where they are easily picked off

- also mentioned this before, but a RL and several rockets or something like that

- berserk pack would also work

- could inject more of a "play to enemies' strengths" approach where it would work, like using pinkies to pincer the player from two directions, saving the cacos for places they can roam over height levels 

- or alternatively play more of a "pure fun" approach where that would work. since the weapons are shotgun and chaingun, that would suggest a higher % of enemies being weaker (there are several+ enemy use paradigms, those are probably the two most basic ones for this sort of map)

 

 

I really appreciate this specific combat advice, will make sure to use some of these in my future maps. Enemy design has always been my least favorite part of map design, I am more of a layout/texturing guy, so having this specific advice is going to help a lot. Thank you!

[TheDanMarine]

this is usually where I'd post a replay but frankly I died right at the end and don't feel like doing even more runs because everyone else is right: it's a tedious map gameplay wise. 

if you want to use that many pinkies it helps to give the player either a chainsaw or berserk pack at some point, to keep it from getting old. shotgunning or chaingunning hell knights, cacodemons, and mancubi to death takes forever. if you're gonna put a lot of high tier enemies in, considering adding high damage weapons like a rocket launcher or SSG. I did enjoy the peekaboo sniping sections like with the revenants in a cage, and the outdoor area looks very nice. 

 

43 minutes ago, LittleDuck said:

Enemy design has always been my least favorite part of map design

 

this is the part people keep praising my maps for while my texture work gets ripped to shred, so allow me some input. 

this wall of text only covers the monsters you actually used in the map: 

Spoiler

 

imps and zombiemen are cannon fodder. use them to fill a room without adding too much danger or drain the player of ammo.

shotgunners are dangerous cannon fodder, a room full of them can be surprisingly deadly. if you want a zombieman that might actually kill the player, use them. 

chaingunners are deadly as hell but die easily. if you want a high priority target to take the player's attention away from something else deadly, use those. they're also good for extremely deadly ambushes. 

most people will either chaingun or shotgun this group of enemies to death

 

demons are beefy but not all that dangerous. they make good tanks for other enemies, blocking shots and taking up damage that would otherwise have killed something more pertinent. spectres are really only useful in low light environments, but can make good jumpscare enemies. 

most people kill these guys with either chainsaw, berserk pack punch, or SSG. they take too much chaingun and shotgun ammo and rockets are a bad choice for a monster that rushes right at you. 

 

hell knights/barons of hell are essentially super imps. use these if you want imp, but it might actually kill someone.

cacodemons are essentially demons that can fly. best used in heavily vertical areas, their ability to float freely really shines in places with lots of lifts and constant height changes and their fireball ranged attack means that they can get at you from high or low. 

usually rockets or SSG are used to kill these guys. up close is too dangerous, and everything else is too ammo-consuming for something so tanky.

 

the few revenants you had you actually used pretty well. long open areas are where they're most deadly, but without any cover at all they can be tricky and sometimes downright unfair. chaingun is surprisingly effective but most people use rockets or plasma rifle because of how deadly they are. 

 

mancubi are tanky as hell, so SSG, rocket launcher from afar, or plasma rifle are the go-tos. their attacks are hard to dodge in close quarters, which is why I died at the end of my run :p. the one you had sniping from the tower was a great idea, but it did have a bit of overlap with the revenants gameplay-wise. having so much stuff flying at you soon as you step outside made it into a game of whack-a-mole that took... a while. 

 

finally, lost souls are excellent monsters for making the player panic. they're fast, agile, liable to make you blow yourself up with their rushing attack but thankfully they stun easy. plasma rifle and chaingun are go-tos for any lost soul infestation. they're especially great in areas where the player has to focus on their footing. I don't think chasm is a good map overall, but it's a perfect example of the kind of place lost souls really shine. 

 

 

[Delisk]