Megawads Where You Like Every Single Map?

[DSC]

A long time ago I made a thread about mapsets you could consider "all killer, no filler". It served it's purpose fine enough, but I believe I was a bit misguided when I created it. The way it was named made it seen as if I was implying that megawads all need to be comprised of only magnum opus in order to be able to classify as "killer". Time has passed, I've gained some experience and I've learned to respect the smaller, breather-levels too. And so, I revisit this topic yet again to ask: what mapsets of at least 10+ maps would you consider to be very consistent in quality across its entirety?

 

I'll personally nominate Sunlust. Every map fits perfectly in their place. The visuals are great, cohesive but with a sense of individuality for each single level. The combat-puzzle setups and encounters remain well-designed and creative start to finish. What else can I say?

[RHhe82]

Sunlust is indeed a strong candidate, there isn't a single level that would make me sigh: "ugh, this one", but rather "ooooh! this one!".

 

Let's have another probably popular pick out of the way: Ancient Aliens. It's consistently good and high quality, it's got a killer soundtrack, and Skillsaw's (and the handful guest mappers') flair of gameplay seems to suit me quite well. I've played it twice back-to-back now, and I think I'd gladly play it again. Now, there were three maps in the set that I initially thought I wouldn't want to replay again for various reasons. However, on the second playthrough their characteristics didn't annoy me almost at all the second time around.

Edited July 4, 2023 by RHhe82 : plural

[eirc]

Sunder for me, map02 is a bit meh but everything else is *chef's kiss*

[Major Arlene]

Eviternity. Even Dehydration grew on me in the end.

[Azure_Horror]

Megawads, where I literally like every single map:

- Eviternity: For me, hardest map to like was not Dehydration, but map 18 right before it. Still a cool level tho.

- 180 Minutes pour Vivre: every single map was both fun and memorable for me, for one reason or another.

- Ozonia (intermission maps included. I really like the simplicity of map 20 and the audacity of map 30)

 

Very strong contenders (where I like almost every map):

- Doom Zero

- Down the Drain

- Community Chest 2

- PUSS IX: mapping at Warpspeed

- Uprising

 

Special Cases:

- Struggle: Antaresian Legacy. There is a special and very prevalent combat-exploration loop in most levels of Struggle. Arguably, this approach gets overused by quite a bit. However, I really like this map design, so I indeed like every map of Struggle. (BTW, Struggle map 30 is one of my favorite "boss maps" in existence.)

- Sunlust: as far as 32 map megaWADs* go, Sunlust is still unique for its combination of difficult gameplay and breathtaking art. This combination leads to a very unique immersive experience. Truth be told, in my mind I describe many Sunlust maps as "Subjectively they feel kinda average, from a certain point of view, if you get my drift" (For example, Maps 03 and 07 definitely go here.) However, every Sunlust level has at least a some small part to like. Conclusion: technically, Sunlust does not belong to the list of "megaWADs where I like every single map". Still, it is a really cool megaWAD, and other megaWADs* like Sunlust simply do not exist right now, in early July of 2023. (* of course, we have quite a lot of smaller pWADs in the similar genre, like Swim with the Whales, Wormwood or Fractured Worlds. Those are not megaWADs, however.)

Edited July 5, 2023 by Azure_Horror : one word to better convey my thoughts

[DSC]

7 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

Eviternity. Even Dehydration grew on me in the end.

Another great choice. I guess most people's problems with Dehydration (and just big maps in general) is that they kind of feel pressured to try and complete everything in one-sitting, but I'm of the mindset that, unless you're speedrunning, there's absolutely no problem to stop in the middle of the map, save, and resume play at a later moment. We've had enough discussions about this several times before: saving is an intended mechanic of the game and there is no shame in using it!

6 hours ago, Azure_Horror said:

- Sunlust: as far as 32 map megaWADs* go, Sunlust is still unique for its combination of difficult gameplay and breathtaking art. This combination leads to a very unique immersive experience. Truth be told, in my mind I describe many Sunlust maps as "Subjectively they feel kinda average, from a certain point of view, if you get my drift" (For example, Maps 03 and 07 definitely go here.) However, every Sunlust level has at least a some small part to like. Conclusion: technically, Sunlust does not belong to the list of "megaWADs where I like every single map". Still, it is a really cool megaWAD, and other megaWADs* like Sunlust simply do not exist right now, in early July of 2023. (* of course, we have quite a lot of smaller pWADs in the similar genre, like Swim with the Whales, Wormwood or Fractured Worlds. Those are not megaWADs, however.)

I personally like these two maps. MAP03 is one of the prettiest first episode levels IMO, and it has plenty of memorable encounters, like the one that traps you inside a fence, the cave with the imps or the plasma gun secret. MAP07's gimmick with the hidden mancubi that leads to a secret final fight is very cool, and that sequence in the beginning with the teleporting weapon is incredibly funny.

[Azure_Horror]

5 hours ago, DSC said:

I personally like these two maps. MAP03 is one of the prettiest first episode levels IMO, and it has plenty of memorable encounters, like the one that traps you inside a fence, the cave with the imps or the plasma gun secret. MAP07's gimmick with the hidden mancubi that leads to a secret final fight is very cool, and that sequence in the beginning with the teleporting weapon is incredibly funny.

 

By no means those two maps are meh, or bad, or anything like that!

 

But to me they feel a little bit... "just there for the sake of being there", for a lack of better terms.

 

In my personal list of preferences map 03 loses to maps 02 and 04 from the atmospheric perspective, and does not offer THAT much unique combat designs, compared to other Sunlust offerings. But I am sure that someone out there has the same opinion about map 02, or map 04, or, say, map 10.

 

And map 07 feels like it has a bit of identity crisis going on. Its slow-paced adventure parts feel contradictory with its high-octane action parts: action aspect loses due to a prolonged start and a bit slow-paced traversal, while exploration aspect suffers from explosive and deadly set-ups with little forewarning (like the RL fight). Artistically, map 07 also does not feel very unique compared to the previous maps.

 

The mancubi secret sequence is definitely a highlight, however fighting fatsos in narrow and sticky corridors feels a bit obnoxious (Another moment, where action and exploration are somewhat at odds with each-other). When it comes to the use of map 07 specials for secrets, I personally like map 07 of Tangerine Nightmare more. (That said, I don't know, which of the two map 07 is harder to UV-max. Tangerine Nightmare Goetia is not a pushover by any means, and it is also considerably longer than its Sunlust counterpart...)

Edited July 5, 2023 by Azure_Horror

[kalensar]

Every single map? I've had all of like 2: Good morning Phobos and Mars War. But that's only for 30+ map megas. My list is larger for episodic wads.

 

There's plenty of awesome megas, but liking every map is a stretch. Even my top picks for megas I definitely don't like every map; not by a long shot. Hellbound is my example here where I like the first 22 but after that it takes a dive into territory I'm not a fan of.  

 

 

[Maximum Matt]

Icarus (except for those crap maps)

[AD_79]

8 hours ago, Azure_Horror said:

Truth be told, in my mind I describe many Sunlust maps as "Subjectively they feel kinda average, from a certain point of view, if you get my drift" (For example, Maps 03 and 07 definitely go here.)

 

I think this is simply how larger projects should be assembled. Sometimes you should have maps that are simply good, both because authors pushing themselves to make thirty-two fantastic pieces of work is absolutely exhausting, and also to allow the true highlights of a set to stand out more in memory. Maps "made for the sake of being there" is not inherently an issue to me, assuming the maps are still put together well!

[volleyvalley]

Alien Vendetta and Scythe II. Both of these megawads have a great grasp on how to make great, engaging levels, without overly cuddling the player.

[BeetBeardTheBrave]

Nostalgia by Myolden.  Absolutely no duds.

[Deadwing]

Cydonia: it's very cohesive while keeping a good amount of variety. It feels like Plutonia with steroids, although I think Plutonia isn't as consistent quality-wise considering all the maps

[LadyMistDragon]

I want to say 180 Minutes Pour Vivre, but unfortunately Maps 31 and 16 exist. Alien Vendetta has a couple of No Chance style gauntlets which just annoy me to no end. Lost Civilization and 1000 Lines come the closest, though neither of those megawads are really my favorites as such. Ancient Aliens thusly is hard to compete against. I also want to say Eternal Doom, it's a megawad that's perfectly good if you can accept it on its own terms and by those standards, there are just short maps with little substance, but not unenjoyable.

 

I liked Eviternity for the most part as well, but there were 1 or 2 maps in the fourth episode (I think it was something in 16/17/18) that were just dull.

[El Inferno]

Screw the breather maps part, Abandon fucking slaps from start to finish. There's no filler really, all 17 maps are very memorable and uniquely challenging

[erzboesewicht]

As I played it recently and thus remember it well, Lost Civilization was one of these, with maps ranking from "good" to "absolutely awesome". There are many who consider maps 15 to 17 to be weaker, but I enjoyed them too, "Fort" was only a bit short. Another one I really looked forward for every single map is Three's a Crowd (but I don't remember it so well, so I may forget one or two maps I didn't like so much).

 

Eternal Doom, Valiant, Alien Vendetta, Eviternity, the BTSXes, Scythe 2, Urania, Down the Drain (love to see it mentioned here :) ) and Sunlust for me are in the "I like almost all" category, but they have some maps I consider clearly weaker.

[Valboom]

Nostalgia, Cydonia and Machete.

[DRON12261]

2022 A Doom Odyssey
No Sleep For The Dead
Machete

In Sunlust, on the other hand, I don't like the gameplay, at least the last third of it. At some points, it became too much of a grind, especially the last few maps. I don't like that kind of gameplay, but the visuals of this megawad are undeniably gorgeous.

[cannonball]

1 hour ago, Deadwing said:

Cydonia: it's very cohesive while keeping a good amount of variety. It feels like Plutonia with steroids, although I think Plutonia isn't as consistent quality-wise considering all the maps

This would be one of my suggestions, after playing it for the DWMC, there wasn’t really any maps that I could call mediocre, let alone bad.

Another one potentially is Haste, I don’t recall disliking any of the maps, even though some of them can be rather provocative.

[RaRu Des2122]

2022 A Doom Odyssey (I don't even know which megawad on The Ultimate Doom will be able to surpass it in the near future)

Anomaly Report (you can get used to shooting from all sides on a few maps and I have no complaints about the rest)

Community Chest 4

Edited July 5, 2023 by RaRu Des2122

[BeetBeardTheBrave]

3 minutes ago, RaRu Des2122 said:

2022 A Doom Odyssey (I don't even know which megawad on The Ultimate Doom will be able to surpass it in the near future)

Anomaly Report (you can get used to shooting from all sides on a few maps and I have no complaints about the rest)

Community Chest IV

OHMYGOD I LOVE ANOMALY REPORT

[Azure_Horror]

3 hours ago, AD_79 said:

 

I think this is simply how larger projects should be assembled. Sometimes you should have maps that are simply good, both because authors pushing themselves to make thirty-two fantastic pieces of work is absolutely exhausting, and also to allow the true highlights of a set to stand out more in memory. Maps "made for the sake of being there" is not inherently an issue to me, assuming the maps are still put together well!

Yeah, this is true. Such maps are not an issue for me either.

 

However, some megaWADs do manage to make any map into a highlight. But I feel that this is more like a happy coincidence.

 

In any case, "making every map in a 32 megaWAD into a highlight" does not feel like a good design goal to deliberately and uncompromisingly aim for. This way lie only mapper's burnout and broken dreams...

 

After all, even Valiant, Sunlust and Ancient Aliens all have some less "highlight-ish" levels together with the absolute show-stoppers. But this does not stop those megaWADs from being breathtaking.

[TasAcri]

KDIZD and KDIKDIZD.

[Azure_Horror]

7 minutes ago, TasAcri said:

KDIZD and KDIKDIZD. 

I thought they are too short to be called 'megaWADs' and are called 'episodes' instead...

 

In any case, all maps of KDIKDIZD are indeed awesome (at least in my opinion).

(Demons are not real, BTW. Which is good, because making them leave would be a real pain...)

[NinjaDelphox]

BTSX2 is probably the only wad I could say I absolutely love every single level, it has the best OST in a Doom wad ever, and the whole thing is just an amazing adventure. The hub maps are an absolute master class in environmental world building/story telling. (On this topic I REALLY don't get how anyone can think the BTSX1 hubs are better) All of the super big maps that people complain about are the ones I enjoy the most, my first playthrough of Speedtraps for the Bee Kingdom and Unstable Journey took about 50 minutes each, and I loved every second of it. Loved BTSX2 enough to start doing UV runs of the whole game, found a bunch of skips that makes the run a lot of fun. (The only map I could even come close to not liking in BTSX2 is Shrine to the Dynamic Years, only because the final fight is a garbage RNG fest in the run lol, but is perfectly fine casually) All the maps also look absolutely stunning and it's incredible that it's all vanilla.

Eviternity would also be on this list, but Dehydration just sucks. I don't really hate it because it's long, but it's just so boring, the music gets annoying after 2 loops, and the map doesn't even have a satisfactory ending. Everything else in Eviternity is an ez 10/10, especially Anagnorisis.

 

[GlebyGlobster]

i loved every map of doom: the way id did. https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom/megawads/dtwid

[Firedust]

Ancient Aliens, Valiant, and Going Down.

[Gifty]

Scythe

[LadyMistDragon]

2 hours ago, NinjaDelphox said:

Eviternity would also be on this list, but Dehydration just sucks. I don't really hate it because it's long, but it's just so boring, the music gets annoying after 2 loops, and the map doesn't even have a satisfactory ending. Everything else in Eviternity is an ez 10/10, especially Anagnorisis.

 

 

 

To say nothing of the first BTSX. I think the maps people find the most boring are cursed by their respective placement together but I don't really think any individual map in there is boring.

[NinjaDelphox]

9 minutes ago, LadyMistDragon said:

 

 

To say nothing of the first BTSX. I think the maps people find the most boring are cursed by their respective placement together but I don't really think any individual map in there is boring.

I don't think BTSX1 is boring at all, it's solid but I don't think it's 100/10 amazing like 2, though it does have my favorite map of all time