Unconfirmed rumor about TNT's MAP15

[Kwisior]

I heard a rumor that the map in question is a repurposed deathmatch level. It was under Dario Casali's playthrough of it. Is there a way to verify this?

Edited September 23, 2023 by Kwisior

[Zilch]

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2302516

 

You can go through some of their previous work and see if it's true.

[Kwisior]

54 minutes ago, Zilch said:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2302516

 

You can go through some of their previous work and see if it's true.

The map isn't made by the Casalis, but you gave me the idea to check TeamTNT's deathmatch maps.

Edit: Crap, there are no similar maps in their deathmatch megawads. Does anyone know if there's a way to contact someone from the team?

Edited September 23, 2023 by Kwisior

[T-Rex]

Having played through TNT Map 15 (one of my favourites), I made some observations and noticed that the map has a non-linear layout. While it appears to be some kind of base situated in what appears to be some kind of courtyard, it offers a multitude of entrances into the base, the switch to lower the bar blocking the exit door is found almost immediately, and the secret exit can be found by accident, so this is one of the few maps in TNT that you can beat in under a minute if you decide to speedrun through it. There are also hidden doors which can take you around the base, some even being shortcuts. With all that in mind, it's safe to say that it is a map that was designed with deathmatch in mind, and the monsters may or may not have been included for single-play, though it could have been an afterthought as well, considering how there is a level design flaw where a few monsters don't get revealed, making 100% kills impossible unless you noclip to the sector where they're in (and even that's not been rectified in the patch that fixes up the yellow key bug in TNT Map 31). Looking at William Whitaker's other maps, which are nowhere else but in Team TNT's deathmatch-only megawad Pursuit, it seems that deathmatch must be his preferred mode of gameplay.

[DoomGuy999]

Either way it would be a great deathmatch map, having teleporters at each little cave.

[Kwisior]

Well, I already found TeamTNT's email. Let's see if anything comes out of this. I hope it's not a dead account, which in all probability it is.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Kwisior

[Murdoch]

16 minutes ago, Kwisior said:

Well, I already found TeamTNT's email. Let's see if anything comes out of this. I hope it's not a dead account, which in all probability it is.

 

TeamTNT has been dead for years so good luck with that.

[Kwisior]

10 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

 

TeamTNT has been dead for years so good luck with that.

So will this stay an unsolved part of classic Doom lore, or is there still a way to contact some of them?

Edited September 23, 2023 by Kwisior

[Murdoch]

1 hour ago, Kwisior said:

 

45 minutes ago, Kwisior said:

So will this stay an unsolved part of classic Doom lore, or is there still a way to contact some of them?

 

Only the map author would know. The only Evilution author occasionally still around is Dario but i doubt he would know for sure.

 

However, given the nature of the layout and the author's only other credits being DM maps that i can find, it seems like the hypothesis has enough merit to be considered probable. Or that the author couldn't help but design it that way.

[Maximum Matt]

8 hours ago, DoomGuy999 said:

Either way it would be a great deathmatch map, having teleporters at each little cave.

Yeah, I thought that these 'caves' around the outside of the level were the co-op/DM start points, and that this was totally built with DM play in mind.  

Only one way to find out really, a huge twelve-hour DM slaught-a-thon

[Zilch]

16 hours ago, Kwisior said:

The map isn't made by the Casalis...

 

Hahaha... I somehow thought this was one of the few maps made by them.  Haven't played TNT in a long time.

[bofu]

So, I have MAP15 mapped out in my brain to an unhealthy degree, in both DM and single player. I'm willing to believe that it's a DM-first level because of how entire (small) parts of the level only open up if you use deathmatch. The level also has a bunch of multiplayer paths and has such a weird single player flow (as well as a secret exit you can get to in under 15 seconds) that I don't think it was designed with single player in mind originally.

 

So I would say this rumor is likely to be true, but there's probably no way to confirm.

[RonLivingston]

Dead zone, anyone know how outer space themed this music really is? I'm a TNT fan of course and I admire the atmosphere of these levels

[Kwisior]

In case anyone was wondering, I just got an error message stating that my email didn't arrive, so it really is a dead account.

Who knows if we will ever get confirmation. The good observations and speculations from the people in this thread are the best we have.

[Lila Feuer]

Well after reading this thread things make a lot more sense now, I'm calling it a deathmatch level converted to single player too.

[Maximum Matt]

In any case, I'm sure most people can agree it's in the top twenty TNT maps.

[bofu]

8 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

In any case, I'm sure most people can agree it's in the top twenty TNT maps.

The best thing about MAP15 (besides Deathmatch, it's actually a fun DM map) is that you can beat it in under 15 seconds and be done with MAP15.

[Faceman2000]

On 9/29/2023 at 3:35 AM, Maximum Matt said:

In any case, I'm sure most people can agree it's in the top twenty TNT maps.

That’s actually ranking it pretty high I think. Top 31 certainly. Maybe even top 29 or 30. But top 20?

[Maximum Matt]

Well, it's certainly better than Habitat, Baron's Den and the epic Drake trilogy