The Quinary Conundrum - MBF21 mapset (NOW ON IDGAMES)

[Vortale]

 

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IDGAMES

 

OLD VERSIONS

RC1

 

TRAILER

 

 

 

ABOUT

 

This mapset was produced during NaNoWADMo 2023, where I challenged myself yet again to get a full 32 map wad done in the month allotted. It is a sequel to The Lost Magic (you may want to play that first!), and is a fair bit harder in difficulty and far more experimental, which for some may be good and bad. As it has MBF21 elements, including new weapons and monsters, there is a high chance your mods may break it so I would play it as intended just in case...or you can experiment yourself - just don't be upset if something crashes with the mods!

 

Unlike TLM, where I posted it as soon as it was done only for it to be riddled with bugs, I decided to keep this private and fix up the plethora of issues that were due to arise. Thankfully a ton was ironed out, thanks to playtesters, and it should be a much more stable and complete set.

 

Special thanks to everyone who tuned into the livestream for the full 31 days of absolute Hell, where I got a nasty flu, UDB crashed losing a ton of progress, and I slipped a disc!

 

STORY

 

It has been centuries since the balance of magic was resorted, and life in the universe was starting to return to normal. You are called down to investigate something strange in the mines on Mars, after the entire facility was evacuated. You are told to not touch anything and report your findings to your commanding officer. Can you resist temptation?

 

TESTED IN - DSDA-Doom 0.26.0, GZDoom g4.11.3, Woof 12.0.0

 

CREDITS

Spoiler

Sprites/Textures:

Raven Software
3D Realms
Gothic
Eriance
Mark Quinn
Anthony Cole
ChronoSeth
Vader

Code:

Rain - Napsalm

Music

Title - Hail the Severed Head - Lippeth
Intermission - Dread Factory - MFG38
Text Screen - Guardian Angel Loses Their Will - Emma Essex
MAP01 - You're Winner - Lippeth
MAP02 - Shoot the Pianist - Stuart Rynn
MAP03 - Nuts and Bolts - Donkey Kong Country 3
MAP04 - Shotgun Shawarma - Rouge Akai & Sumo
MAP05 - Pluvious - Brendan Bradley
MAP06/11/16/21 - Home? - EmperorSpoon
MAP06 - Ocean Flute - Stuart Rynn
MAP07 - Revenant Capoeira - Gustavo Rehermann
MAP08 - Return of the Troubles - Jeremy Doyle
MAP09 - Minds Like Magents - Tomás Soares
MAP10 - Abyssal Mystery - Paul Corfiatis
MAP11 - Lunar Outbreak - Deadwing
MAP12 - The Berggren-Malde Complex - DCG Retrowave & Northivanastan
MAP13 - Adversary - Bucket
MAP13 - Kaleidoscopic Array - Mr.Freeze & Cammy
MAP14 - Plug Ugly - Brendan Bradley
MAP15 - Slim Chances - Sego
MAP16 - Cellar - Castlevania IV
MAP17 - Sunset Over Babylon - James Paddock
MAP18 - Featherfall - Stuart Rynn
MAP19 - Pissed Office Box - Lee Jackson
MAP20 - Path of the Pale Horse - Lippeth
MAP21 - Blizzard - James Paddock
MAP22 - Voyage - James Paddock
MAP23 - Noirmire - James Paddock
MAP24 - Dreamgate - James Paddock
MAP25 - Phux Ache - James Paddock
MAP26 - Of Serpents Nailed to Fate - Cammy
MAP27 - The Caco's Best - MegaSphere
MAP28 - Eternal Damnation - Knightrider of Doom
MAP29 - Stardust - Tristan Clark
MAP30/Extra Ambient track - Shhh, the Shadows Are Near - Decino
MAP30 - Lucifer's Throne - PRIMEVAL
MAP30 - Memory - EmperorSpoon
MAP31 - Blood Red Shadows - Aubrey Hodges
MAP32 - Bumfuzzled - James Paddock

 

IF I HAVE MISSED ANYONE PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

 

SCREENSHOTS

Spoiler

 

CHANGELOG/KNOWN ISSUES

Spoiler

FINAL

 

OVERALL
- The shotgun shell corporation is rather unhappy that TQC has poor shotgun representation. SG and SSG have now been oiled up and are much faster on reloading to help keep up with the DPS that the plasma chaingun brings.
- A lot of maps had multiplayer softlocks that have now been patched.
- Crossbow damage reduced by a TINY amount.
- Lost Souls now have much less HP (as they should)
- The Spidermastermind society were very upset that, despite their upgrade, they're still really easy to mow down. We've improved their armour and now their painchance was reduced. They can still be stunned, but it's less consistent.
- GZDoom fixes, including breaking the Doomguy's kneecaps and turning the invuln colors to green
- The yellow zone revisit on map 21/25 has a spot where you can easily slip in, then get permanently stuck. I don't even know how the geometry manage to do that
- Minor linedef, item placement and changes pretty much everywhere, you'll be lucky if you notice

 

MAP03:
- Small step added to get back up to the red key, should you accidentally fall down early

 

MAP08:
- The SSG is given to the player earlier and in a much more obvious spot

 

MAP28:
- A lot of monsters removed. This really isn't a nerf on the map itself, as it still plays out roughly the same, it's just to make cleanup a lot faster as it was fairly tedious before once you'd cleared out the objectives.
- The corridor before the web room has been widened to give the player more space to move around

 

MAP29:
- The Green area has been significantly nerfed in all difficulties, probably the biggest change in the whole set. It's meant to be hard, but it's just too much given the rest of the set and makes it the hardest fight in the entire set by a fairly wide margin.
- More ammo added to the Yellow area. Entering here first can be extremely tricky without ammo.
- More ammo added to the White area. Entering here last can be a bit nasty to deal with if you've struggled with the other areas

 

RC1

 

- Obituaries being default in Woof. No idea how to edit that yet

- Jumping and crouching is not intended, measures will be put in place later, however nothing should break as a result

- Map31 & Map32 don't have co-op starts oops

 

Extra special thanks go to: PinkKittyRose, CutmanMike, MasterMedi, BFGandorf, FlameDragon, Gromat, Petya, Shadowderpy, Meowgi, deatsaw and Napsalm for their testing and feedback!

 

Any issues or complaints, please let me know!

Edited August 9 by Vortale : Stardust did not write Tristan Clark lol

[kvothesixstring]

Great fun! Welcome addition to the Vortaleverse! Congrats!

 

[Master Medi]

HUGE

[deathz0r]

Had a lot of fun playtesting this, an excellent sequel to The Lost Magic! Once again, the rate you pumped out these maps is nothing short of impressive.

 

Spoiler

I need to go back and figure out how to reach the secret exit in MAP31, I loved that it's a heavy throwback to TLM as well

 

[Terminus]

Congrats on the release! I loved The Lost Magic and I'm really happy to see the sequel out.

[Firedust]

Lost Magic was dope so  looking forward to playing the sequel!

[LuciferSam86]

Playing the RC1 and it's super fun. 

Congratulations for the official release on DW! 

[TheShep]

good seeing it played by the testers over the past few weeks. look forward to playing it sometime in the future :)

[Rudolph]

What are the new monsters and weapons?

[Firedust]

Started my playthrough and just wanted to confirm something - do you actually get the BFG replacement in the first map of the megawad or is GZDoom spazzing out lmao

[galileo31dos01]

3 hours ago, Firedust said:

Started my playthrough and just wanted to confirm something - do you actually get the BFG replacement in the first map of the megawad or is GZDoom spazzing out lmao

 

Yes, that is the new BFG

[Firedust]

Beat maps 1-15+31 and this has been great as expected so far. Loving the callbacks to The Lost Magic, like the tower or the dilapidated amalgam of the predecessor's city levels. Couldn't for the life of me figure out how to lower the yellow key bars. Looked at the editor, still made no sense (I did try crossing the tagged linedef by the normal exit, bars didn't lower).

[galileo31dos01]

7 hours ago, Firedust said:

Couldn't for the life of me figure out how to lower the yellow key bars. Looked at the editor, still made no sense (I did try crossing the tagged linedef by the normal exit, bars didn't lower).

 

Spoiler

Vortale or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong but to access the secret exit, a yellow key is necessary to lower the bars, and to acquire the key you have to stay silent throughout until you take the teleport out of the flesh pit fight and pick up the key that should be accessible then, so never shoot a bullet until then. I took this from watching Vile's stream of the wad. 

 

----

 

I'll take this chance to mention I finnished the wad (great fun everything btw!) and report two super minor things:

 

Spoiler

22

- In the final area, before jumping to the RSK I noticed some of the invisible pillars that hold the crystals were HOMing from my viewpoint. This is in software renderer.

 

30

- There was a noticeable HOM over there although that's if you're inclined to explore behind the tallest piles of crates

 

- This is more of a suggestion: I liked the edits to the SMM, which if I noticed correctly were hitbox reduction, wielding BFG, no infight between each other (but still vulnerable to friendly fire) and quick switching targets like archviles do if hit. I want to suggest you elevate it even more, by reducing its pain chance (and/or reducing reaction time to 10 tics or so). I found that it's consistently easy to neuter them completely with the crossbow, since at close range the three projectiles always stun it, so they stand no chance at all. That's about it.

 

[Firedust]

15 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

 

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Vortale or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong but to access the secret exit, a yellow key is necessary to lower the bars, and to acquire the key you have to stay silent throughout until you take the teleport out of the flesh pit fight and pick up the key that should be accessible then, so never shoot a bullet until then. I took this from watching Vile's stream of the wad. 

 

Well shit lol

[Firedust]

Alright, just wrapped this up. Once again, a stellar job! Can't believe you finished another megawad in only a month. Very impressive variety of settings this time around too. Hopefully, a sequel next year? ;)

[unraveler]

Great mapset, the verity between episodes really adds to the spice!

As soon as the topic of Cacowards 2024 is open, this will get mention from me!

On 12/11/2023 at 7:02 AM, deathz0r said:

 

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I need to go back and figure out how to reach the secret exit in MAP31, I loved that it's a heavy throwback to TLM as well

 

Spoiler

After teleporting away from the pit with the big fight, look for a wall that can be opened, and there in the opposite to the caged yellow keycard, you would see a hint.

 

[TJG1289]

Finally got around to playing this, and really enjoyed it! I like how the pistol and chaingun are replaced with plasma versions, effectively making the chaingun the plasma rifle, thus making a lot of the combat plasma focused. The bow that replaces the plasma rifle did take some time to figure out how to use effectively, but it's a cool weapon. The maps are pretty fast paced and fun. I really like some of the homages to The Lost Magic, like map 31. The 6 episodes having different settings is a nice choice, and I especially liked how the final episode approached it. Good stuff here!

[LuciferSam86]

I've finished the wad , the only part I've found difficult for me even on ITYTD was 

Spoiler

The green arena on Map 29 , maybe I didn't find the secrets so was even more difficult or didn't understand the trick to complete it. At the end I've IDDQD'd 😅

Still an impressive wad  , good job 

[Vortale]

Finally got off my backside and got the idgames link posted. Decided to jump straight from RC1 to final release as it was sort of getting there anyway and collecting feedback over the months has helped refine certain troubling spots. All major changes are in the changelog if you want to look. Apologies for taking so long to get this properly finished though.

 

Once again, thanks to those who played it already! I'm not sure what the future will bring, but I've got something cooking in the oven! I'm going to leave with a few final thoughts on this set that you can skip.

 

Spoiler

I personally consider this project a bit of a failure.

 

Now, I don't think it's 'bad', but it didn't achieve it's goal. A lot of the feedback I'd gotten had been very negative, either towards the latter half or the entire project as a whole, and the negative feedback has mostly been from it's target audience. Much like TLM, TQC was meant to be accessible, "fat-free", light hearted Doom action, yet I decided to go a bit more experimental and it may have bit me in the ass. Of course, there are some that consider this better than TLM, perhaps some of the best shit I've made, but admit that it could've been better if I had continued to work on it passed the NaNoWADMo deadline. Unfortunately, I'm a hardass and I like to stick to challenges as close as I can, only really modifying things that are truly egregious.

 

It also didn't help that unlike TLM, development was riddled with issues across the board. From Doombuilder deleting hours of progress, an illness and even a bit of a physical impairment, to mappers block coming in hard around episode 4 (which, funnily enough, seems to be the standout episode of the bunch). Furthermore, the incentives caused me to force myself to see it done, without breaks, as I'd feel like a right PoS for letting people down. It was a true mental struggle this time and I can't look at this without thinking of what could've been if I hadn't dialed my stress levels to 11 for a Doom mapset of all things.

 

Would I do a redux of this in the future though? Probably not. The reason I'm a hardass is that I like the final product being the culmination of the restrictions, the experimentation and the problems that ran through it. To spend a month fixing everything up ruins the purpose of the challenge and what this mapset is supposed to be in the end. Sequels can fumble, especially when expectations are higher, and while this was a bit of a negative experience, overall I'm glad I had it. There are lessons learned I can take into the future. If you hate the set, then that's absolutely fine, this isn't everyone's cup of tea as I get a bit wild in places. But hey, if I don't at least attempt to get wild, things will get stale. Put some pineapple on your pizza, you might find you like it in the end. Or maybe bump it down a peg.

 

And for people mad about map31's secret exit requirements and map32 itself, I slipped a disc during production, so, we'll call it even.

 

Edited March 19 by Vortale

[TheShep]

Regarding the final thoughts, what I always say when I run into something that's "OP" or "turbochad" or what have you, I'm like "this isn't for me" and also as you said (paraphrasing) "if we don't do lavish experiments in Doom, then what more can we really do that's not already been done?"

So for those who go for crazy platforming, or super slaughter encounters, or magnum opuses (opi?), don't dial it down because the norm is "UV pistol start;" leave the dialing for the other difficulties, or just re-iterate "hey, there's other difficulties ya know??" especially if it's truly built differently for those difficulties.

Anyway, for tldr; more experimentation, and don't worry about the naysaying. There's plenty of wads that cater to straightforward encounters to play through.

[DreadWanderer]

I really enjoyed TLM (recorded a full playthrough of it after all) and checked this one out too a bit and liked how it felt with the sci-fi elements. I'm sorry you got a lot of flak for it. I would have recorded a playthrough of this too if not for 2 reasons: 1. Starting other wads and most importantly 2. Waiting for other release candidates, bug fixes, and so on. Wished there was more interest in TQC but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case. I take it that with the idgames release, there isn't going to be any more work on it? That's what I understood from @Vortale's post at least.

[Firedust]

I thoroughly enjoyed this mapset and thought it was a great deal of fun. Great visuals, distinct themes, fun combat. All done within the span of a month. The only 'failed' aspect of this wad, based on your post, is the fact that it is indeed harder than Doom 2, so casuals won't do particularly well in certain levels here.

 

Looking forward to the next entry in the Vortaleverse!

[NuMetalManiak]

Favorite wad of the year so far. Glad it doesn't go overboard and has a great narrative. MAP30 is insane.

[Mr. Meanor]

been streaming this over on my Kick channel the past couple nights, and my god, this is gonna get my seal of approval, and a nomination for cacoward for this year. It is so good, and a huge step up from The Lost Magic (another banger of a wad).

This is, hands down, the most fun I've had with a wad since Eviternity 2 broke Doomworld.

Vortale, you are an absolute madlad, and I hope there is a part 3 in this series.

[Track Federal]

Great job! The Lost Magic has already been a very interesting release, and TQC is a development of the ideas of its predecessor. One of the best storytelling implementations that I've seen in the pwads. This time it turned out to be a preponderance towards fantasy style. By the way, in terms of using all the new lumps and mbf21 features, TQC even surpasses even Eviternity 2 in places. 

[LVENdead]

I'm a little late to the party on this one. I remember this release thread but I never managed to download it for whatever reason.

 

Anyways, I'm 9 maps in and this is great so far! I remember really liking The Lost Magic and this one manages to surprisingly build on that in many ways. I'm loving all the new custom stuff going on, the plasma chaingun is a beast. You seem to have no shortage of different ideas to explore but the maps are short enough that it's all delivered at a nice brisk clip. I'm really interested to see how the rest of this shakes out.

[LVENdead]

Alright I finished this up today and all I gotta say is WOW.

 

It's been a long time since a megawad has pulled me through it so fast - even Eviternity 2, which I adored the whole way through, took me multiple short sessions to complete. This, on the other hand, I finished in about 3 distinct sessions which is a lot for me as my attention span for games dwindles these days. I think I would be impressed with this under normal circumstances, but the fact that you somehow threw all these maps together in a month is straight up insane. Every map I completed had me eager to see what the next would entail, due in no small part to the variety of ideas and themes you clearly enjoyed experimenting. There was no shortage of delightful concepts peppered throughout and it's hard to pick a favorite moment there were so many good ones.

 

As I wrote this, I skimmed back up and finally saw your post about the development struggles and apparently the less than ideal reception. I'm sorry to hear that the audience you intended for it didn't seem to receive it well, but for what it's worth I'm absolutely floored by this. It's been a LONG time since I've completed a full megawad and thought "Damn, it's actually over?" The aforementioned attention span issues means that generally speaking, I'm much more agreeable to shorter sets and this is a stark exception to that rule. I have my own share of nitpicks and critiques, but by and large there's not much I don't like about this. Aspects of this WAD feel like they were tailor made for my sensibilities. So yeah, I won't invalidate your feelings that this WAD may have been a bit of a failure for you, but for me personally, I couldn't get enough of it and I'm absolutely eager to see whatever it is you make next.

 

Very well done.

[Vortale]

I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, but I figure I should mention it here, mostly for the speedrunners: Map25 has been altered.

 

Map25 has been cursed since it was first built. Originally the boss was supposed to be a Cyberdemon on a windy platform, but I decided to create something unique and dehack something fun since we're in MBF21, plus a Cyberdemon felt very dangerous as a boss for that level. The unique enemy broke the map however, in various ways, on every port outside of DSDA-Doom and required a ton of tweaking to work with GZDoom and Woof. I finally thought everything was good to go with my thorough testing, I had watched many people play the map without issue and no-one has reported any bugs on it since release.

 

Then in a singular day, BFGandorf , the champion that he is, breaks the map not once, not twice, not quice, but runs into a bug on almost every speedrun attempt, to the point where I am amazed no-one else has ran into this or reported it to me. Dumbfounded, it took me 18 runs myself to finally hit the bug...then I couldn't stop hitting it.

 

Map25 has won. We're going back to the original fight with the Cyberdemon, but the arena has been made much bigger to accommodate dodging. It absolutely should not be broken in any way now (this includes Nomo, in fact I feel all nomo demos should still work fine).

 

If you're worried about all other maps, they remain untouched and as far as I'm aware, all demos that don't involve map25 still work fine. The temptation to fix certain...decisions I've made was hard to resist.

 

Anyway, can't wait to bump this thread in another 6 months to report another update for map25.

[Scorcher]

11 hours ago, Vortale said:

The unique enemy broke the map however, in various ways, on every port outside of DSDA-Doom and required a ton of tweaking to work with GZDoom and Woof. 

Woof is meant to be 100% demo-compatible with DSDA, any inconsistencies should be reported to the devs.

What part of the enemy is breaking exactly?

[Zieleslaw]

On 3/18/2024 at 3:20 PM, Vortale said:

 

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I personally consider this project a bit of a failure.

 

Woah, man, I'd feel fantastic with failures like that! I surely adore a WAD with this amount of creativity and visible engagement, especially if it was done mostly in a month. Not that it needed to be, but I salute your dedication to the challenge, especially with that interesting outcome :). Sure, I can agree, that some levels could just be omitted (though they all create a nice episodic structure and story... and since you wanted a MegaWAD, it is what it is), but I wanted to write this post to assure you, that TQC is already a good work. 

- Extensive new features used? Check.

- Environmental storytelling? Check.

- Nice idea to start a WAD with a BFG, and a more powerful one? Check.

- Great looking and propelling MAP30? Check. Doom Builder helped me get to the real ending, but could you share with us why this code 

Spoiler

6006

was the answer?

Spoiler

- Intriguing secret maps? Check. I don't mind MAP32 - hopefully it would even teach someone about "edge walking", which is also essential in parts of "Jack Built a Techbase", for example. And it has option for rage quit. And barrel section was as intense, as you probably intended ;).

MAP31 DOES inform you about pacifist requirement, if you don't meet it - take look through the window to the right of yellow keycard's bars :) . But please let me know, @Vortale - why you need the player to shoot this one bullet into the vent's exit? That's usually used to prevent players from utilizing pacifist's "quietness".

And THESE DAMN RED EYES IN A ROOM WITH A SPECTER.

Edited October 7 by Zieleslaw