SIGIL II - Episode 6

[SitarA]

The man might probably take a peek at the forum just like he did around the time of the first release as he's registered here aswell.

 

Just like I said around the time of the first one's release, it seems he's having fun with mapping for Doom again and the fact that he's getting out another episode and is working on a 32 map Doom 2 megawad on the side shows he's still fired up which is great to see.  

 

In the case of his gameplay decisions, I do hope to see an improvement instead of a continuation.  

 

Almost forgot about the the "Ukraine" map he put out aswell. If I look at that map, which serves as a bridge towards his Sigil 2 then Romero is all about that punchy in your face gameplay not dissimilar to Congestion/Claustrophobia 1024 type wads. Maps with 30 to 50 monsters max which could fuck you in the ass.

 

[Major Arlene]

32 minutes ago, OniriA said:

then Romero is all about that punchy in your face gameplay not dissimilar to Congestion/Claustrophobia 1024 type wads. Maps with 30 to 50 monsters max which could fuck you in the ass.

 

Having watched his dev streams, this tracks :D

[Tycitron]

With Sigil 2 coming out the only thing i can think about is how many times Doomguy is being prevented  from going to earth for Doom 2 lol. If you consider SIGIL 1 canon alongside Thy Flesh Consumed, There have been like instances of the text screens of Inferno, Thy Flesh Consumed, and Sigil that are like "Up next is earth!" and then another episode drops preventing Doomguy from reaching earth lol. Poor guy can't catch a break and reach earth, he keeps being sent back to hell.

[Rudolph]

1 minute ago, Tycitron said:

With Sigil 2 coming out the only thing i can think about is how many times Doomguy is being prevented  from going to earth for Doom 2 lol. If you consider SIGIL 1 canon alongside Thy Flesh Consumed, There have been like instances of the text screens of Inferno, Thy Flesh Consumed, and Sigil that are like "Up next is earth!" and then another episode drops preventing Doomguy from reaching earth lol. Poor guy can't catch a break and reach earth, he keeps being sent back to hell.

Yeah, I would love to see more techbase maps from John Romero: "Tech Gone Bad" and to a lesser extent "Phobos Mission Control" were quite cool.

[Metal_Slayer]

2 hours ago, Captain Viridian said:

 

Care to give some examples? From this last 3 years, only Eviternity and MyHouse got comparable fame and exposure outside of the community bubble. Maybe Ashes: Afterglow, if you consider TCs too. Other ambitious wads included Heartland, Lost Civilization, Ozonia, although none of them has the classic vibe that made Sigil famous.

How could I possibly give an example if you are going to have a different opinion? Fame and exposure aren't metrics to measure quality either, still that's not my point.

He sold a CD containing SIGIL for 6,66€ , and then the big box through LRG. Now it's the digital edition for 6,66€ , the "basic edition" for 69,99€ and even more for the others, I know inflation is a thing, but really? Project Warlock is on his website for 34,99€ too, using the same USB stick. He could have removed most of that merch and sold a basic edition.

[GarrettChan]

1 hour ago, Captain Viridian said:

Levels are basically the evolution of what you have seen in Map11, Map17, Map26, Map29, E4M2 or E4M6. E4M6 is like a Sigil map released in the 90s.

You're pretty funny. This is the exactly reason that why I said Sigil doesn't feel 90s, you're contradicting yourself, but whatever. :)

 

And I don't see the connection of Plutonia or all *other* WADs you mentioned. You're just drawing a big circle about things that you have no idea.

[DankMetal]

32 minutes ago, Tycitron said:

With Sigil 2 coming out the only thing i can think about is how many times Doomguy is being prevented  from going to earth for Doom 2 lol. If you consider SIGIL 1 canon alongside Thy Flesh Consumed, There have been like instances of the text screens of Inferno, Thy Flesh Consumed, and Sigil that are like "Up next is earth!" and then another episode drops preventing Doomguy from reaching earth lol. Poor guy can't catch a break and reach earth, he keeps being sent back to hell.

I never understood what the hell is supposed to represent Thy flesh consumed? Is it earth? Is it hell? Something in between? Judging by the levels themselves, they look hellish, and they use a lot of hell textures all around, but again, that could be earth corrupted by hell. But anyway, it's still my second favorite episode of doom.

1 hour ago, Captain Viridian said:

 

Levels are basically the evolution of what you have seen in Map11, Map17, Map26, Map29, E4M2 or E4M6. E4M6 is like a Sigil map released in the 90s.

 

Modern wads have evolved from Plutonia and Alien Vendetta, which is a completely different experience. That's not bad, but way overdone, and while some did it in high quality (like Eviternity or Heartland), most are generic and unrecognisable for people outside the bubble. MyHouse is something completely different, and then it exploded... you don't have to be John Romero to get recognition. NRFTL wasn't his work, and was famous too for a reason.

 

Since people here are way too overprotective now just this discussion scratched the surfece, it's better turn back the thread to its roots.

Why do people care so much about cacowards? They've said in the past that it's just an article written by a bunch of nerds. They don't have any authority to say what was the best of the year, it's just their opinion, so stop crying about how they didn't like your favorite wad.

[mattjoes]

One of the reasons why I love Sigil is that it feels like something outside of the typical styles found in community maps. It's like an itch nobody was scratching.

[EduardoAndFriends]

1 hour ago, Tycitron said:

With Sigil 2 coming out the only thing i can think about is how many times Doomguy is being prevented  from going to earth for Doom 2 lol. If you consider SIGIL 1 canon alongside Thy Flesh Consumed, There have been like instances of the text screens of Inferno, Thy Flesh Consumed, and Sigil that are like "Up next is earth!" and then another episode drops preventing Doomguy from reaching earth lol. Poor guy can't catch a break and reach earth, he keeps being sent back to hell.

Yeah man, breaks my heart that poor Doomguy keeps getting messed about with. I guess he’s facing the eternal punishment from Hell… being close to home but never getting there. 🥺

[EduardoAndFriends]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

Yeah, I would love to see more techbase maps from John Romero: "Tech Gone Bad" and to a lesser extent "Phobos Mission Control" were quite cool.

After the dark, oppressive, subterranean feeling of Sigil it would be wicked to have an episode set in sterile, brightly lit techbases as contrast. 

[EduardoAndFriends]

4 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

I'm not even going to humor the rest of the post (and quite frankly I don't want to derail the conversation any further, this thread is about Sigil 2) because there is no such thing as objectivity when talking about creative endeavors.

 

Verdant Citadel, Lost Civilization (which also got a sequel this year), Remnant, The Wayfarer, Paradise (which birthed Supercharge, one of the best gameplay mods available in my opinion) were all fantastic. Even NeonDM for multiplayer was good and I still play it to this day. 

 

Also worth noting - Sigil did get mention. It was a runner - up. And runner-up is still pretty damn good considering the volume of shit that has to be sifted through each year. A mention at all is big these days. Runner-up does not mean "lost at the Cacowards" - it is still recognition in its own right and a Cacoward in the technical sense. You're acting like it didn't get mentioned at all which is patently false.

100% agree, Major A. Throwing around “objectively” when talking about anything creative is a fool’s errand. Methinks an individual might be better off stepping up and using “in my opinion…” even if it’s marred by a follow up of “and if you don’t agree, you’re a twit!” or something similar lol.

 

man, I can’t fathom how difficult it would be to adjudicate the Cacowards … people will get pissy no matter what, especially if their favourites get seemingly passed by. 

[Tycitron]

1 hour ago, DankMetal said:

I never understood what the hell is supposed to represent Thy flesh consumed? Is it earth? Is it hell? Something in between? Judging by the levels themselves, they look hellish, and they use a lot of hell textures all around, but again, that could be earth corrupted by hell. But anyway, it's still my second favorite episode of

Earth for sure. The sky texture is the same one seen in the inferno ending screen, which is on earth. E4M9 also confirms this being a UAC techbase. I just assume Episode 4 of Doom 1 is the outskirts of the city / starport you enter in Doom 2, and the whole thing is Doomguy making his way to the ruined city and avenging his pet rabbit along the way. 

 

(Then he makes it to the city and Doom 2 begins.)

[Lila Feuer]

2 hours ago, Tycitron said:

With Sigil 2 coming out the only thing i can think about is how many times Doomguy is being prevented  from going to earth for Doom 2 lol. If you consider SIGIL 1 canon alongside Thy Flesh Consumed, There have been like instances of the text screens of Inferno, Thy Flesh Consumed, and Sigil that are like "Up next is earth!" and then another episode drops preventing Doomguy from reaching earth lol. Poor guy can't catch a break and reach earth, he keeps being sent back to hell.

Hm, that's one doomed space marine.

 

Spoiler

Don't forget The Lost Episode, my headcanon episode 5

 

[LadyMistDragon]

3 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

 

  Hide contents

Don't forget The Lost Episode, my headcanon episode 5

 

The one we normally pretend doesn't exist?

[Gez]

4 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

The one we normally pretend doesn't exist?

No?

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom:_The_Lost_Episode

[DreadWanderer]

This is major news, on par with the teaser for BTSX Episode 3. Releasing it for Doom's 30th anniversary is just perfect. Very excited!

[bioshockfan90]

Exciting stuff, I'll play it and have a good time! SIGIL, despite its flaws, is pretty fun and it's not every day you see the dev of a (borderline) ancient game come back to make more levels for it 25-30 years later. 

 

Re: did SIGIL deserve a cacoward, I'd say yes, if NRFTL could get one and TNT could get mentioned in 10YOD I don't see why SIGIL (and its sequel) couldn't get a nod either. It technically got mentioned that year if I'm not mistaken, so I don't see why anyone should be complaining to begin with! I read somewhere on here once that it really doesn't matter on the order of the 'wards, the gold and silverness of it all, or even beyond that - if you get mentioned, you basically get the merit. And that's the way I've always seen it. There was a WHOLE ASS SECTION dedicated to SIGIL that year (once again, if I'm not mistaken) and the fact that people have the audacity to say "Oh well it didn't get the same honors as (wad I like)" (which is all preconceived anyway), boo cacowards" is pretty funny to say the least.

 

But that's probably just feeding the trolls as it tends to go, back on track I'm curious if the episode will keep using the bright red hellcracks and evil eyes. I know he's been streaming development on youtube, can anyone confirm if these features were shown during a stream?

 

[DoomGuy999]

The ending of doom tag2 proved doom is eternal. Except the fun part of the plotline is they are squeezing an eternity in between. John Romero is still adding episodes to the first game!

[Rudolph]

9 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

The one we normally pretend doesn't exist?

I still do not understand why it is so disliked. I think it is awesome!

 

1 hour ago, DoomGuy999 said:

Except the fun part of the plotline is they are squeezing an eternity in between.

So in other words, Classic Doom can get away with filler arcs.

[Jayextee]

This thread do be hilarious though.

Imagine if a long-renowned band, maybe one instrumental to the creation and development of a whole genre, reform and produce an album. It's a little old-fashioned and only uses a few modern recording tricks, but that's okay because it's more or less still in the flavour of their old work. Y'know, as if the original four members of Black Sabbath recorded a new studio album and it's authentic enough that you could almost mistake it for a successor to Sabotage, fitting right in there sonically before Technical Ecstasy.

Now imagine that some kid complains that they have the audacity to ask money for it (and its special edition box with all kinds of extra stuff) because, well, there's so much music out there released for free on BandCamp and SoundCloud and it's better*.

Anywho, that's some of the SIGIL 2 discourse going on here.

^{*; subjectively so, but they're going to throw around the word 'objective' as if doing so magically turns their opinion on any given matter into The Facts™}

[mancubian_candidate]

I've nothing constructive to add other than I'm very excited 😄

[Plerb]

While Sandy Petersen might not be making any more Doom levels, I was scrolling through Tom Hall's twitter just now and saw this:

https://nitter.cz/ThatTomHall/status/1720808082807095629#m

:D

[Captain Viridian]

I hope he will. I want to see a Tom Hall map that isn't screwed totally by Petersen.

[Rudolph]

If he does, I hope it is going to flow better than his Rise of the Triad maps.

[baja blast rd.]

On 11/4/2023 at 3:30 PM, Captain Viridian said:

I hope he will. I want to see a Tom Hall map that isn't screwed totally by Petersen.

 

bye

Edited November 6, 2023 by baja blast rd. : edit: turns out this is a formerly banned poster

[drygnfyre]

20 hours ago, DankMetal said:

I never understood what the hell is supposed to represent Thy flesh consumed? Is it earth? Is it hell? Something in between? Judging by the levels themselves, they look hellish, and they use a lot of hell textures all around, but again, that could be earth corrupted by hell. But anyway, it's still my second favorite episode of doom.

I think it's supposed to be Earth, but others have even suggested Heaven. After all it's supposed to sort of bridge the gap between Episode 3 and Doom 2, so I always assumed Doomguy returned to Earth, but the invasion already began?

 

Episode 4 has my favorite skybox, though. I always like the sort of "perm-sunset" that it was going for, and episodes that have a similar style and look are always some of my favorites.

[drygnfyre]

On 11/3/2023 at 2:51 PM, Major Arlene said:

Also worth noting - Sigil did get mention. It was a runner - up. And runner-up is still pretty damn good considering the volume of shit that has to be sifted through each year. A mention at all is big these days. Runner-up does not mean "lost at the Cacowards" - it is still recognition in its own right and a Cacoward in the technical sense. You're acting like it didn't get mentioned at all which is patently false.

Exact same logic with award shows. Your favorite movie not winning Best Picture doesn't mean it failed. It got nominated, it got recognized. Award shows are great for advertising films, regardless of if they actually won awards (read: glorified opinions) or not.

 

There are a lot of Doom WADs I would have never heard if it wasn't for the Cacoawards. It them winning or not winning was irrelevant, it was the recognition that was important.

[EduardoAndFriends]

2 hours ago, drygnfyre said:

I think it's supposed to be Earth, but others have even suggested Heaven. After all it's supposed to sort of bridge the gap between Episode 3 and Doom 2, so I always assumed Doomguy returned to Earth, but the invasion already began?

 

Episode 4 has my favorite skybox, though. I always like the sort of "perm-sunset" that it was going for, and episodes that have a similar style and look are always some of my favorites.

I’ve always taken it to be some sort of Purgatory or Limbo space between Hell and Earth. Still populated by demons but not entirely hellish.

[DreadWanderer]

16 minutes ago, EduardoAndFriends said:

I’ve always taken it to be some sort of Purgatory or Limbo space between Hell and Earth. Still populated by demons but not entirely hellish.

 

Don't quote me on this, but as far as I recall Thy Flesh Consumed is taking place on Earth. This is the "canon" interpretation of the end of Inferno, though it must be said that id didn't really put a lot of effort into constructing an airtight narrative. Of course this is before the complications introduced by Sigil. If you want to make it consistent with TFC, then Sigil acts as an intermezzo act between E3 and E4 when Baphomet attempts to block the portal to Earth by way of a demonic seal.

[Rudolph]

31 minutes ago, DreadWanderer said:

Don't quote me on this, but as far as I recall Thy Flesh Consumed is taking place on Earth. This is the "canon" interpretation of the end of Inferno, though it must be said that id didn't really put a lot of effort into constructing an airtight narrative.

It does make sense, considering how many Doom II levels do feature a similar blend of textures.