Nothing so far, but a new idea is brewing thanks to GermanPeter's video on his interpretation of what Doom II's locations actually are.

[T-Squared]

 

 

 

They make sense when interpreted in this fashion, but given how limited Doom II is by its own engine, could this be made into a reality? (I'm not asking people to do it for me. :P It's just a thought.)

 

If it were made, I would call it a more-complex version of Ultimate Doom II.

[GermanPeter]

I had the idea of doing this via the UDMF format, but only using the new features when absolutely necessary. Like 3D floors where they couldn't add them, actual water to swim through, and so on. The rest would stay the exact same, so no using wall textures for the floor or adding slopes or whatever. Just adding what they couldn't do back in the day.

[Zesiir]

I think it's a cool idea, to make maps based on the video's theories, incorporating the basic Doom 2 designs into larger, more coherent layouts.

I wouldn't mind taking a shot at turning MAP01 into a train station for example, or some kind of transport hub. It's an interesting take on Doom 2.

 

[T-Squared]

5 hours ago, GermanPeter said:

I had the idea of doing this via the UDMF format, but only using the new features when absolutely necessary. Like 3D floors where they couldn't add them, actual water to swim through, and so on. The rest would stay the exact same, so no using wall textures for the floor or adding slopes or whatever. Just adding what they couldn't do back in the day.

 

O hai! :D

 

I figured just adding more sectors and maybe some extra textures + designs might be good. Nothing fancy, unlike a lot of modders tend to do. I wonder if it should be within the limitations of the original engine...

[Mystic 256]

If there is a project of this, Can I join?

[Walter confetti]

Yeah, i think it's pretty double even in vanilla, especially the first 3 maps

[Zesiir]

I got inspired last night and made this alternate version of Entryway. Aiming for the look of a small transport hub with a train that leads into a starport.

 

Entryway Revisited.zip

 

There's a small parking lot, a starpad, cargo elevators etc. Tried to make sense of the original map's designs.

 

Edit: Fixed stuff.

Edited February 11 by Zesiir

[GermanPeter]

7 minutes ago, Zesiir said:

I got inspired last night and made this alternate version of Entryway. Aiming for the look of a small transport hub with a train that leads into a starport.

 

Entryway Revisited.zip

 

There's a small parking lot, a starpad, cargo elevators etc. Tried to make sense of the original map's designs.

That was really cute, I love the way you actually exit via train and the starpad at the end, adds a lot of character.

 

Some notes:

-Where'd the chainsaw go?

-In the monitor room, the dead marine on the ledge has a pool of blood underneath and one on the floor below, but I think it's missing a bloodfall.

-The rocket launcher secret can only be accessed once, so if you go down there and raise the platform back up without picking it up, you can't get it anymore. Feels like a minor oversight.

 

Seriously though, since people are already showing interest, I think it'd be grand if someone could start a project like this. I have unfortunately zero time or patience to do it myself, but I'd definitely love to join.

 

I think it'd be important to decide on a few ground rules, mainly that the main layout and progression of the levels is not allowed to get changed (you'd just be adding detail, not rearranging entire rooms), and that each map HAS to have a story to tell (can't just make generic space base no. 485735, it needs to have a clear purpose).

 

Also some clear rules on how much detail should be allowed to get added, as some people go all out, while I'd basically just add a few chairs here and there. I don't think the project should change into one of those "Let's remake all Doom 2 levels in our own style"-projects, but just go "Hey, what if we try to make these look slightly more like real places without disturbing the original design too much?"

I wouldn't really be interested in the former type of project, anyway.

[Zesiir]

21 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

Where'd the chainsaw go?

 

You hit a switch in the control booth behind you to open the door to the parking lot, then immediately hang right to see an indentation in the green wall.

There's the chainsaw. I wanted to keep it close to the entrance, while hiding it in a secret.

 

21 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

In the monitor room, the dead marine on the ledge has a pool of blood underneath and one on the floor below, but I think it's missing a bloodfall.

 

Gah, I knew I missed something. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

21 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

The rocket launcher secret can only be accessed once, so if you go down there and raise the platform back up without picking it up, you can't get it anymore. Feels like a minor oversight.

 

You're right, I was unsure about it. I'll make it re-enterable.

 

I'd love to be part of a project like this.

I think, giving the old Doom 2 maps some more depth and character while avoid making them too complex, could be a great homage.

Edited February 11 by Zesiir

[Abandoned_Account]

Just tell me if someone start project like this cause im lately quite bored, i might start remaking some maps even now

[Wolfenfan]

plz post them as soon as their ready I'm eager to play

 

[bunnytummy]

Loved your video, so many maps make sense in my mind now lol, I never really had the imagination required to see futher the abstrac design behind most of the later maps of Doom 2.

 

I am interested in a project like this but I'm not sure what the themes would be? Another "doom 2 in name only" that basically aimed to represent more accurately the maps' names? or will it be more like a Doom 2 map remake where we take the original maps as a base to build up something more lore-accurate or visual story telling?

[GermanPeter]

10 hours ago, bunnytummy said:

I am interested in a project like this but I'm not sure what the themes would be? Another "doom 2 in name only" that basically aimed to represent more accurately the maps' names? or will it be more like a Doom 2 map remake where we take the original maps as a base to build up something more lore-accurate or visual story telling?

If I was gonna be part of a project like this, then it'd basically have two main rules:
1) Keeping the original layouts and designs intact (not making unique stages; at most restructuring certain rooms here and there)

2) Trying to guess the intention of the authors who made the maps and then adding things to make them resemble that more (like adding windows that they couldn't add due to limitations etc)

 

Just remaking stages in our own style would defeat the entire purpose. It's more a remaster than a remake, essentially upscaling existing stages while giving them a little bit of our own flair.

Two questions are up in the air still, namely how much detail is allowed to get added, and whether or not to keep monsters around (as it wouldn't make sense for demons to roam in mostly intact citiees, but then again, it could be near the beginning of the invasion).

[Abandoned_Account]

12 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

If I was gonna be part of a project like this, then it'd basically have two main rules:
1) Keeping the original layouts and designs intact (not making unique stages; at most restructuring certain rooms here and there)

2) Trying to guess the intention of the authors who made the maps and then adding things to make them resemble that more (like adding windows that they couldn't add due to limitations etc)

 

Just remaking stages in our own style would defeat the entire purpose. It's more a remaster than a remake, essentially upscaling existing stages while giving them a little bit of our own flair.

Two questions are up in the air still, namely how much detail is allowed to get added, and whether or not to keep monsters around (as it wouldn't make sense for demons to roam in mostly intact citiees, but then again, it could be near the beginning of the invasion).

That sound perfect for me, not gonna take too much time, existing maps are easy to add or remove some thngs thereand there, I would make a thread to start this project but i dont wanna feel like im the boss or something lmao, also dont like updating my posts anytime some big change happen xD Also i wanna take most small and some medium maps! Im bad at adding stuff to the big maps, too big for my imagination!

[GermanPeter]

25 minutes ago, AuroraFox said:

That sound perfect for me, not gonna take too much time, existing maps are easy to add or remove some thngs thereand there, I would make a thread to start this project but i dont wanna feel like im the boss or something lmao, also dont like updating my posts anytime some big change happen xD Also i wanna take most small and some medium maps! Im bad at adding stuff to the big maps, too big for my imagination!

I could make a post about it (to give the project more of a face), but I really don't want to be the one actually organizing things, that's my main issue. I'm fine with giving input and feedback, but not with keeping track of who does what and deadlines and all that guff. If someone volunteers to do that, I can come up with rules and such.

 

Another issue is where we draw the line. As I said in the video, some of the later maps like Nirvana are definitely city maps that were pulled into hell. So where do we put those? Do we bring them back to Earth and de-hellify them? What about maps like Gotcha, which are pretty much entirely destroyed? Do people just add their own buildings everywhere?

What about the actual hell levels which don't really need any changes, like The Spirit World or The Living End? There's nothing those maps are implying that they didn't manage to pull off, so it's not like there's anything to "remaster" there. Do we just leave them out?

 

So I think I'd focus more on the "Hell on EARTH"-part and basically just show how these maps were SUPPOSED to look like before they went to hell. That'd scrap only a few of the later stages, anyway. And the levels would be mostly intact, though enemies and items could still be added, with the option to disable them entirely on Easy. So if you just wanna go sightseeing, then you can do that, but if you wanna keep playing normally, then you can do that too.

Keys would always be present, to ensure that the map flow doesn't change, but teleporters and such would need to get swapped out with more sensible means.

 

This would unfortunately mean that we couldn't really do things like "Doomguy has to tear down the wall with his hands" or "Doomguy breaks through the floor", but I feel like it's more interesting to see what these maps could have actually been.

[Abandoned_Account]

7 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

I could make a post about it (to give the project more of a face), but I really don't want to be the one actually organizing things, that's my main issue. I'm fine with giving input and feedback, but not with keeping track of who does what and deadlines and all that guff. If someone volunteers to do that, I can come up with rules and such.

 

Another issue is where we draw the line. As I said in the video, some of the later maps like Nirvana are definitely city maps that were pulled into hell. So where do we put those? Do we bring them back to Earth and de-hellify them? What about maps like Gotcha, which are pretty much entirely destroyed? Do people just add their own buildings everywhere?

What about the actual hell levels which don't really need any changes, like The Spirit World or The Living End? There's nothing those maps are implying that they didn't manage to pull off, so it's not like there's anything to "remaster" there. Do we just leave them out?

 

So I think I'd focus more on the "Hell on EARTH"-part and basically just show how these maps were SUPPOSED to look like before they went to hell. That'd scrap only a few of the later stages, anyway. And the levels would be mostly intact, though enemies and items could still be added, with the option to disable them entirely on Easy. So if you just wanna go sightseeing, then you can do that, but if you wanna keep playing normally, then you can do that too.

Keys would always be present, to ensure that the map flow doesn't change, but teleporters and such would need to get swapped out with more sensible means.

 

This would unfortunately mean that we couldn't really do things like "Doomguy has to tear down the wall with his hands" or "Doomguy breaks through the floor", but I feel like it's more interesting to see what these maps could have actually been.

I like the idea of making maps to be like from before the hell invasion, something what people did with Half Life few times. So yeah we can bring some city hell levels back to earth, we can actually make like two versions tho, first one will be making maps look more like real places, then a second file will be all those maps but untouched by invasion with nice blue or cloudy skies outside! Where the first one would have monsters, and second wouldnt cause invasion never happened (yet). And yes, Gotcha gonna be a BIG problem, we probably gonna add more buildings, its probably gonna be the only map where we make most of our own structures. I said most cause i will definitely build in my maps out of bounds areas filled with buildings and stuff to make it feel more real. When i was making some Urban maps back in the day i always had to make a fence, and behind it there was so much unnacessible places to see, buildings in distance, streets far away! Chimneys from factories too! I think those maps are still somewhere on moddb or atleast few of those. So i think we not gonna only add details and rebuild maps later, but we can expand the bounds so its not just sky behind a very short thick wall. Unless people in Doom 2 live on floating islands so there is really only just sky lmao

[watto3699]

Seems like a fun idea. I'll throw my hat into the ring and take on Map04, The Focus.

I'll start on a mock up when I'm home next and try figure out the recommended level of detail.

Also, is there a map format restriction? I know it was mentioned earlier that 3D floors may be ok, but want to double check before starting.

 

[GermanPeter]

3 hours ago, watto3699 said:

Seems like a fun idea. I'll throw my hat into the ring and take on Map04, The Focus.

I'll start on a mock up when I'm home next and try figure out the recommended level of detail.

Also, is there a map format restriction? I know it was mentioned earlier that 3D floors may be ok, but want to double check before starting.

 

I mean you can do whatever but we didn't even begin any project yet, so there's no rules to follow as of right now.
 

[WorldMachine]

I think if this DOES become a CP, it should be in the Vanila DOOM 2 format, there are plenty of DOOM 2 reimaginings like this concept, but none I've seen are in the Vanilla Format, and I've been itching to play some of these is Crispy DOOM!

[Wolfenfan]

8 hours ago, AuroraFox said:

I like the idea of making maps to be like from before the hell invasion, something what people did with Half Life few times. So yeah we can bring some city hell levels back to earth, we can actually make like two versions tho, first one will be making maps look more like real places, then a second file will be all those maps but untouched by invasion with nice blue or cloudy skies outside! Where the first one would have monsters, and second wouldnt cause invasion never happened (yet). And yes, Gotcha gonna be a BIG problem, we probably gonna add more buildings, its probably gonna be the only map where we make most of our own structures. I said most cause i will definitely build in my maps out of bounds areas filled with buildings and stuff to make it feel more real. When i was making some Urban maps back in the day i always had to make a fence, and behind it there was so much unnacessible places to see, buildings in distance, streets far away! Chimneys from factories too! I think those maps are still somewhere on moddb or atleast few of those. So i think we not gonna only add details and rebuild maps later, but we can expand the bounds so its not just sky behind a very short thick wall. Unless people in Doom 2 live on floating islands so there is really only just sky lmao

Dang it was hoping to play it with the rest of Doom 2

[Wolfenfan]

40 minutes ago, WorldMachine said:

I think if this DOES become a CP, it should be in the Vanila DOOM 2 format, there are plenty of DOOM 2 reimaginings like this concept, but none I've seen are in the Vanilla Format, and I've been itching to play some of these is Crispy DOOM!

Was hoping they would add a water section for the blue room in the chasm

[GermanPeter]

1 hour ago, WorldMachine said:

I think if this DOES become a CP, it should be in the Vanila DOOM 2 format, there are plenty of DOOM 2 reimaginings like this concept, but none I've seen are in the Vanilla Format, and I've been itching to play some of these is Crispy DOOM!

The point would be to do what they couldn't do back then, i.e. include swimmable water and such. So anything beyond vanilla would be required.

[WorldMachine]

Ah, I see... not to say I haven't seen some impressive stuff done in the vanilla engine before, but I get the point.

[bunnytummy]

Well, if there is a community project based on this, I think @GermanPeter should stablish the project's rules and restrictions, while he may not be able to host and lead a community project for various reasons, he's the one to say "hey, it should go like this..." wether is the basic restrictions, format/source port to be used, map names and rules for mappers, etc. Maybe even making a simple example map to guide participants.

 

I am quite interested on participating on a project like this, but it needs planification first, and I'm in no position to help right now because I too don't have time to host or lead a project, but can map in the weekends.

[T-Squared]

Yeah, that sounds good. I didn't want to lead the project, but I wanted to bring the idea to the attention of the community.

[GermanPeter]

9 hours ago, bunnytummy said:

Well, if there is a community project based on this, I think @GermanPeter should stablish the project's rules and restrictions, while he may not be able to host and lead a community project for various reasons, he's the one to say "hey, it should go like this..." wether is the basic restrictions, format/source port to be used, map names and rules for mappers, etc. Maybe even making a simple example map to guide participants.

 

I am quite interested on participating on a project like this, but it needs planification first, and I'm in no position to help right now because I too don't have time to host or lead a project, but can map in the weekends.

Yeah, I'm fine with establishing rules and such, but I just can't lead the project either.
Once someone volunteers to keep track of submissions, enforce deadlines and perhaps even create a Discord server to discuss things, we're golden. I'm also perfectly fine with "playtesting" maps, I just can't do the rest of the bulk. You know, the important work :P

[The Doommer]

On 2/10/2024 at 4:18 PM, GermanPeter said:

The rest would stay the exact same

Honestly some of the textures and designs could change

 

For example, Downtown has some integrity but the whole arrow in the middle is still a bit of an issue IMO.

Or Industrial Zone could use some explosion for that Duke Nukem-esque explosion they were going for.

[GermanPeter]

52 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Honestly some of the textures and designs could change

 

For example, Downtown has some integrity but the whole arrow in the middle is still a bit of an issue IMO.

Or Industrial Zone could use some explosion for that Duke Nukem-esque explosion they were going for.

Maybe. But I don't think anything is gonna come out of this anyway, so it hardly matters.

[Rykzeon]

MBF21 probably can do this I think. We can use fake 3D vanilla trick to an extent with silent teleporters to make RoRs. Boom has Deep Water effect. MBF21 make us able to add new thing like breakable bottles, particles, etc. I also found something interesting from DeepBSP nodes to make things more realistic. The only concern from me is unable to implement quaking effect you could find in Blood when destroying buildings like in Industrial Zone.

[Rykzeon]

On 2/12/2024 at 6:03 PM, GermanPeter said:

This would unfortunately mean that we couldn't really do things like "Doomguy has to tear down the wall with his hands"

I think I've seen somewhere in Going Down where the player starts with breaking rock with their hands. I think we can reproduce the effect with Boom generalized linedef action. I'm more concerned with how to telegraph it correctly to the player.
 

"Doomguy breaks through the floor"

I think we can use map-scripted linedef action & silent teleporters to simulate Doomguy breaks floor and falling off from that said hole. Just don't let the player turn on vertical looking :p