Do people like Doom 2's level Design?

[SkidyBoobFish]

Do people actually like Doom 2's more gimmicky and more open level design?

I'm asking this because i'm making a 32 level Doom 2 Mega WAD and some levels are REALLY reminiscend of Doom 2's levels.

I don't have much time to work on it so some levels are very simillar to Doom 2

 

I also want to know what people's opinion on it is.

[esselfortium]

Yes.

[Deadwing]

I like it, tbh Doom 2 has only 4 or 5 so-so maps

[Jayextee]

I like the Sandy maps, and the Romero maps.

[Beubeu]

I really like the gimmicky map of doom 2 

[Shepardus]

Question aside, this is a pretty poor excuse:

2 hours ago, SkidyBoobFish said:

I don't have much time to work on it so some levels are very simillar to Doom 2

 

[LegendaryEevee]

@SkidyBoobFish  I've been on record in the forms and on my channel many times saying that Exploration Maps are my favorite maps ever created.  I cannot stand when DooM Maps do like E1M2.  Get the Red Key Card then do this.  When it comes to DooM II this is reflected with some of my favorite maps:

 

Map08: Tricks & Traps -- You may end up having to get the red key in the yellow door to exit but you have so many different rooms you can pursue in any order you like to get to that point.

 

Map10: Refuling Base -- One of my favorite DooM II Maps there are just so many ways to tackle this.  Megasphere, chainsaw then wreck house?  Get the Chaingun and neutralize the hit scanner room first?  So many options.

 

Map15:  Industrial Zone -- As much as this map kicks my butt trying to UV-Max it (still not there yet).  This is the epitome of Open World explore at your leisure.  Do you get the Red Key First?  Go for the BFG?  Do you B-Line it for the Secret Exit?  Choice is yours.

 

And these are just three examples.  My favorite level I have ever played in any WAD so far is Dehydration (Map18 I think?) from Eviternity.  It's a literal massive Power or Water Treatment Plant with so many nooks and crannies and so many ways to progress through it you can literally get lost in there for hours.  There's always way to snipe enemies from rooms further ahead of where you are.  The level of freedom is perfect!  These are what I enjoy.  Don't hold my hand through the level just give me something I can literally get lost in.  That's my favorite type of map. 

[Async Unicorn]

Some people like it, some people don't, these who say they like - they're right, those who say they don't - they're also right.

Don't bother with it, honestly, if it's a matter of subjective things like gameplay / visual.

There is a general consensus that Plutonia > TNT Evilution and they're right in their own way, but some people really appreciate original TNT Evilution feel and vision (like I do) - so they've made fan sequels (TNT Revilution, for example) which got a lot of praise and awards, so it says that every thing in the world can have a fanbase, to be honest with you - I love to play old WADs from the 90s, they may be crappy sometimes, but some of the maps have a soul so they're memorable.

General rule in every form of art is basic: if you like what you're doing - do it and listen only objective criticism (it may help you to grow faster)

Edited May 16 by Vanilla+Unicorn

[Jayextee]

16 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

Question aside, this is a pretty poor excuse:

No it's not. Some people have busy lives, you never know what a person's situation is; and how that may impact on their creativity to the point where the overall idea of something is borrowed from another source (in this example, base DOOM II) to save time generating one's own ideas.

And, c'mon, how many of us over the years haven't done a Dead Simple-alike in their WADs? I've done about three.

[Darkcrafter07]

I used to like Doom 2 and that simplicity and gimmickery only made up to the atmosphere - nothing excessive, at times a bit confusing and boring.

Actually I wanted more. Once I didn't know what to expect later after Map11 as I stuck there and thought the whole game could have become even more epic larger and open, it did to some extent but not as much. All of the Doom games before Doom 2016 felt really claustrophobic and small to me and that's where Quake and Duke3D outperformed them, at least they had taller ceilings, way more horizontality verticality and depth than Doom.

 

I'd rather say, the maps done adequately well and if only they were detalized more later by mappers as good as community's, they would have gotten better.

Here comes a BUT: performance, a mapset as detailed and shiny as Plutonia 2 or PRCP requires a better machine, at least twice as powerful to play it like regular Doom 2.

[OpenRift]

I feel like in the past couple years it's the hot new thing to shit on Doom II's level design like it really detracts from , but while there are certainly a couple stinkers, most are far from what I'd call truly bad. They're just... fine. We've become spoiled by 3 decades of constant community content that it's become hard for some to appreciate Doom II's vanilla experience. Sure, the level design is definitely not its strong suit, but I think Doom II's expanded arsenal and bestiary more than makes up for it.

[maxmanium]

I have the (I think) unpopular opinion that I actually like all the use of brown in Doom II.

[HiMyNameIsChair]

Doom 2's level design is.. aggressively *fine*. If nothing else, i think its variety and concepts make it interesting, even if I do think it's execution is spotty. Tricks and Traps was pretty ahead of it's time as a combat puzzle, more so than Fortress of Mystery ever was. Dead Simple while done to death ( pun intended, not sorry), makes a quick no frills combat arena and an easy template to showcase tag 666. Heck, it's even got 2 levels dedicated to shooting Nazis, which is always a plus.

 

While it's hard to go back to now, having been spoiled by decades of fanmade works, there are still some solid maps like Refueling Base with it's ample secret passages and pretty satisfying game flow, and Inmost dens that I think earns its countless homages with maybe the coolest layout of the set. The Living End definitely set a standard for Penultimate levels and beats the pants off Limbo in that regard.  I even kind of like the Chasm with it's sense of scale and prominent use of green slime (both things I am very fond of).

 

But yeah Doom 2's levels are fine. It's definitely got some stinkers, i honestly could do without the Icon... still not a fan, and Nirvana is also just, laughably busted. Doom 2 is a game, where it's individual parts (new weapons, items and monsters) are greater than the whole they create. It's a very uneven game, but I do still like bits of it.  

[slowfade]

I used to dislike many, more than I do now. The more experimental ones have grown on me. When the maps were made literally nothing like them had ever existed in context of gaming. That's good to keep in mind.

[Xaser]

@OP, if you're feeling like you're having to rush through the levels due to time constraints, you're much better off focusing on a smaller number of levels and making them as good as can be. Don't shoot for an arbitrary number; 32 maps is a crazy amount for a single person to make, even for long-time mappers.

[Robo_Cola]

I've found that Doom II grew on me as a whole over the years once I got more and more familiar with the map layouts.  Not sure if that's the norm though

[TheLippyServer]

3 hours ago, maxmanium said:

I have the (I think) unpopular opinion that I actually like all the use of brown in Doom II.

I agree with this sentiment actually. I think a lot of people underestimate how much more difficult to navigate and mentally exhausting Doom 2 would be without such a muted palette. I love Sandy's maps to death, but the last thing I ever want to play is a Sandy Petersen map in Ancient Aliens textures.

[Lila Feuer]

Back in the day no. Nowadays yes. Huge contrast between the Doom2.wad style of mapping versus some "realistic" reinterpretation like Doom 2 Reloaded. Back then I really liked that wad, but now I think it plays things way too safe and loses a lot of style points that makes Doom II's levels more memorable. Doom was always better at abstract representations of real world places (even with doomcute things to support the notion of realism) than trying to be Duke Nukem.

[SleepyVelvet]

2 hours ago, TheLippyServer said:

Sandy Petersen map in Ancient Aliens textures.

Give me this NOW.

[kevansevans]

I really like how playful and ambitious the map designs were with Doom 2, but I don't care for Sandy's idea of map design. They feel like a bunch or arbitrary shapes thrown together with no real rhyme or reason. I know a lot of people like to meme about "Sandy Arrows", especially after Civvie pointing it out, but making your maps abstract should not come at the cost of readability, hence why his style of sign posting makes it bad.

 

Even my favorite map, Refueling Base, suffers from this. Then again, Sandy did pick up after Tom Hall, so who knows what it could have been without his interception.

Which is funny when I lay it out like this, good Doom maps are nothing but shapes slap dashed together, but something about the way he expressed lacked a certain je ne sais quoi.

[DoctorNuriel]

On 5/16/2024 at 6:45 PM, SkidyBoobFish said:

I'm asking this because i'm making a 32 level Doom 2 Mega WAD and some levels are REALLY reminiscend of Doom 2's levels.

I don't have much time to work on it so some levels are very simillar to Doom 2

 

Don't rush things. Don't try to take shortcuts by emulating Doom 2 too closely. Let your own creativity shine. Even if, due to limited free time, that means the wad takes a while to finish.

 

Don't be like RonLivingston.