Lästermaul (FreeHexen) discussion

[GeorgePieVG]

Current repo: https://github.com/GeorgePieVG/lastermaul
Attic: https://github.com/GeorgePieVG/lastermaul-attic
Lastermaul is a project to create a completely free game, compatible with mods and maps for Hexen. It is a spinoff (or sequel, haven't chosen a story yet) to Blasphemer. At the moment, Lastermaul is in the early stages of development, there are almost no maps, and many replacements are unfinished. You can download the tech demo here: lastermaul.zip

28/10/24 edit: Updated iwad build, updated repo link

Edited Monday at 11:28 AM by GeorgePieVG

[Catoptromancy]

[Lonespacemarine]

Looks good, I suppose you can use some of the freedoom attic assets here if they look great with the wad

[Questar_Valdamar]

Are you looking for Mappers yet?

[GeorgePieVG]

5 hours ago, Questar_Valdamar said:

Are you looking for Mappers yet? 

Definitely yes. So far, we've only got one map, not counting test maps.

[GeorgePieVG]

Sorry for the delay. ATM there is no active development for Lastermaul as you can see from the repo, personally I have been busy expanding Freedoom attic. I would set the following goals for the first release:

• Have visible placeholders for all sprites, textures, and graphics.
• Make the first “starting" map. (like Winnowing Hall)
• Finalize the palette. (I think it should be similar to the Blasphemer palette, while fitting well with the graphics of the original Hexen)

Until then, I can release dev builds if anything worthwhile is added.
Also the project has resources taken from public sources like MIDI packs, and although those MIDI packs have the standard permission from idgames template, I don't know how safe it is for such FLOSS projects to take those, I would recommend you not to use resources from Lastermaul yet. Before the first release, I will ask all authors if they wish their resources to be in the game.

[ax34]

37 minutes ago, GeorgePieVG said:

Also the project has resources taken from public sources like MIDI packs...

Use my MIDI somewhere. Please... 😊

I have more MIDIs but i doubt they will fit Heretic/Hexen setting:

 

[Questar_Valdamar]

1 hour ago, GeorgePieVG said:

Sorry for the delay. ATM there is no active development for Lastermaul as you can see from the repo, personally I have been busy expanding Freedoom attic. I would set the following goals for the first release:

• Have visible placeholders for all sprites, textures, and graphics.
• Make the first “starting" map. (like Winnowing Hall)
• Finalize the palette. (I think it should be similar to the Blasphemer palette, while fitting well with the graphics of the original Hexen)

Until then, I can release dev builds if anything worthwhile is added.
Also the project has resources taken from public sources like MIDI packs, and although those MIDI packs have the standard permission from idgames template, I don't know how safe it is for such FLOSS projects to take those, I would recommend you not to use resources from Lastermaul yet. Before the first release, I will ask all authors if they wish their resources to be in the game.

I can get started on a map01 like Winnowing Hall tonight, I'll let you guys know about my progress

[MrFlibble]

As usual, I set out looking for one thing and found something else altogether!

 

I have completely missed character sprites made by @jaeden (all from scratch) and posted here:

I suppose the Mermaid could make a good placeholder for the Stalker? @GeorgePieVG, what do you think?

[Wadmodder Shalton]

This feels less feature creep than what Zauberer was trying to achieve with the lack of any members.

[Questar_Valdamar]

These might help?

[GeorgePieVG]

18 hours ago, ax34 said:

Use my MIDI somewhere. Please... 😊

 

 

It's already used in the dev version of Blasphemer, the E4M2 slot. Yep, the next version will get a new soundtrack for the last three episodes.

 

18 hours ago, ax34 said:

I have more MIDIs but i doubt they will fit Heretic/Hexen setting:

 

Thank you! I'll take a look at them.

 

17 hours ago, Questar_Valdamar said:

I can get started on a map01 like Winnowing Hall tonight, I'll let you guys know about my progress

By the way, by “like Winnowing Hall” I meant that it would be great to keep its purpose. It's simple, short, but still shows many of the quirks that have appeared since Heretic, like stained glass bashing, polyobjects, etc. Thanks for contributing!

 

14 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

I suppose the Mermaid could make a good placeholder for the Stalker? @GeorgePieVG, what do you think?

Yeah, the dive sprites especially fit in. Although I'd rather have a goo monster which replaced barons in pre-0.11 freedoom as a stalker, but it needs some serious tweaking.

 

13 hours ago, Questar_Valdamar said:

These might help?

Sadly no, they are all based on sprites from commercial games, Lastermaul will never be able to accept such.

[Questar_Valdamar]

15 minutes ago, GeorgePieVG said:

By the way, by “like Winnowing Hall” I meant that it would be great to keep its purpose. It's simple, short, but still shows many of the quirks that have appeared since Heretic, like stained glass bashing, polyobjects, etc. Thanks for contributing!

I gotcha. I was working towards implementing it's tutorial like nature. I didn't get as much time to work as I'd have liked, but I've got some screenies I'll be sending. Right now it's a short winding path leading to the entrance to a building.
I'm currently mapping in Heretic in Heretic map format, and testing in GZDoom. I don't know if that's what you guys had in mind or not. I was using the Hexen.WAD so I could see what I was doing texturing wise, we don't appear to have many resources yet.
I was experimenting with designing the opening so that players on Easy and Normal had more tutorial stuff to get through than players on Hard. Do you guys like that idea?

15 minutes ago, GeorgePieVG said:

Sadly no, they are all based on sprites from commercial games, Lastermaul will never be able to accept such.

Oh ok, my bad.
I saw the werewolf in there and got excited. It'd be cool to have Ettin's replaced by werewolves or something.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[GeorgePieVG]

7 hours ago, Questar_Valdamar said:

I gotcha. I was working towards implementing it's tutorial like nature. I didn't get as much time to work as I'd have liked, but I've got some screenies I'll be sending. Right now it's a short winding path leading to the entrance to a building.
I'm currently mapping in Heretic in Heretic map format, and testing in GZDoom. I don't know if that's what you guys had in mind or not. I was using the Hexen.WAD so I could see what I was doing texturing wise, we don't appear to have many resources yet.
I was experimenting with designing the opening so that players on Easy and Normal had more tutorial stuff to get through than players on Hard. Do you guys like that idea?

Oh ok, my bad.
I saw the werewolf in there and got excited. It'd be cool to have Ettin's replaced by werewolves or something.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Lastermaul uses the Hexen engine, not Heretic, so you'll have to convert your map to Hexen format. Also, please make sure you haven't used any GZDoom-specific features, the target source ports for the game are limit-removing for now. I recommend testing your map with Crispy Hexen or Sprinkled Hexen in the future.

[Questar_Valdamar]

2 hours ago, GeorgePieVG said:

Lastermaul uses the Hexen engine, not Heretic, so you'll have to convert your map to Hexen format. Also, please make sure you haven't used any GZDoom-specific features, the target source ports for the game are limit-removing for now. I recommend testing your map with Crispy Hexen or Sprinkled Hexen in the future.

Oh my lord, I meant to say Hexen in Hexen 🤦‍♂️ it was like, 6am when I was typing this, sorry. I tend to mix up their names anyway when I'm trying to talk about them.

I'm avoiding GZDoom specific things, I'll grab me a copy of Crispy Hexen soon. 

[MrFlibble]

@GeorgePieVG, I was thinking, maybe use the AoD skeleton from the Freedoom attic for the Ettin replacement? They appear to be a bit more fitting for the moderately fast and tough ground trooper role than the ghouls (or whatever the Blasphemer golem replacement is called, I forgot).

 

Also the Chaos Serpent/Brown Chaos Serpent ~ Weredragon replacement seems to still use the original sprite offsets instead of the correct ones. The same goes for the Cyclops/Minotaur too.

 

I was also thinking what could work as a Centaur replacement, because of its non-standard frames, and for now I had the idea to maybe frankensprite a shield onto the old Freedoom Serpentipede/Ophidian? I haven't come up with any good source for the shield though, except maybe try to make one from @Amuscaria's rotating skull thingy (guardian) that has already enjoyed several different roles in both Freedoom and Blasphemer.

 

I see you've made @raymoohawk's incomplete first attempt at redrawing the Serpentipede into a green swamp (?) monster that replaces the Wendigo. It looks quite nice, but does this mean you intend to refurbish the ice textures into something else? Since this monster does not look particularly well suited for an icy wasteland / cave theme.

 

BTW, I had this idea, previously you mentioned @Cascade's Shatter Earth mod, which has a set of iron armour pieces, perhaps we'd be permitted to use them as the armour items in Lästermaul?

[GeorgePieVG]

9 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

@GeorgePieVG, I was thinking, maybe use the AoD skeleton from the Freedoom attic for the Ettin replacement? They appear to be a bit more fitting for the moderately fast and tough ground trooper role than the ghouls (or whatever the Blasphemer golem replacement is called, I forgot).

Agreed, although those skeletons have aged well, the sprites need an upgrade.  Thanks for the idea.

 

9 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

Also the Chaos Serpent/Brown Chaos Serpent ~ Weredragon replacement seems to still use the original sprite offsets instead of the correct ones. The same goes for the Cyclops/Minotaur too.

Yeah, I remember. Fixing offsets and renaming sprites to match animation frames is still a work in progress.

 

9 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

I was also thinking what could work as a Centaur replacement, because of its non-standard frames, and for now I had the idea to maybe frankensprite a shield onto the old Freedoom Serpentipede/Ophidian? I haven't come up with any good source for the shield though, except maybe try to make one from @Amuscaria's rotating skull thingy (guardian) that has already enjoyed several different roles in both Freedoom and Blasphemer.

Craneo suggested in discord to make Lastermaul a prequel to Blasphemer and I had an idea who could replace them. Remember his concept for Disciple replacement in the Blasphemer thread? And also their backstory, how they fought Gyte and defeated him and then he came back and enslaved their souls. I think Gyte himself could replace the cleric in Lastermaul, and the centaurs would be replaced by the very warriors still alive and not enslaved. But that's just on the lore part, someone will need to do the graphics.

Regarding the guardian cube from DE, it's currently replacing the "cocoon" state for afrit replacement.

 

9 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

I see you've made @raymoohawk's incomplete first attempt at redrawing the Serpentipede into a green swamp (?) monster that replaces the Wendigo. It looks quite nice, but does this mean you intend to refurbish the ice textures into something else? Since this monster does not look particularly well suited for an icy wasteland / cave theme.

They're meant to be gorgons. Yeah, fair enough, they don't really fit ice caves (especially considering snakes are cold-blooded).

While I was writing my reply, I had another idea. I remembered that we use the ice prison map from zauberer, what if the gorgons were purposely placed in ice locations by someone, locked there? Since they are cold-blooded, it could have weakened them, but not necessarily killed them since they are fantasy creatures.

9 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

BTW, I had this idea, previously you mentioned @Cascade's Shatter Earth mod, which has a set of iron armour pieces, perhaps we'd be permitted to use them as the armour items in Lästermaul?

Sprites from that mod are allowed to be used with credit. And they're already used in Lastermaul :). But I think it would still be polite to ask before release.

Edited September 26 by GeorgePieVG

[AntonR]

Any sounds needed?
I made a whole bunch for just this kind of project, I was thinking of doing a full sprite and sound replacer before I knew of any Free Hexen project, but it turns out Hexen is a far bigger game than Doom or Heretic, so It's only about a third of the sounds I think, they are all different from my Heretic ones, some of which are already in use by Blasphemer.

[GeorgePieVG]

3 hours ago, AntonR said:

Any sounds needed?

Of course! Just make sure the sounds are made from scratch or from public domain resources.

[AntonR]

2 hours ago, GeorgePieVG said:

Of course! Just make sure the sounds are made from scratch or from public domain resources.

I always do!
I have made my own whole action set of swooshes, smacks, splats, and what have you, so these come into use a whole lot!

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ZBH6WfSKN5OrDp2JaX5tSnCWRgfAV1z_?usp=drive_link

 

here you go, this is what I have so far

Edited October 19 by AntonR : added file link

[MrFlibble]

@AntonR, thanks for sharing! I wonder if something from your work could be useful for LibreQuake too? BTW, are there any sounds you have for Blasphemer that are currently not used, perhaps they could find home in LibreQuake as well?

[AntonR]

10 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

@AntonR, thanks for sharing! I wonder if something from your work could be useful for LibreQuake too? BTW, are there any sounds you have for Blasphemer that are currently not used, perhaps they could find home in LibreQuake as well?

Certianly possible to do, but I much prefer making them toward a specific purpose, which is why I haven't been reusing things, is LibreQuake lacking in sound?

(btw my sounds here have been 11khz bitrate just because I want file sizes and performance to match the originals where possible, also audio gets big easily (and it's a fun limitaiton). So I have designed with 11khz frequency ranges in mind and I don't know if that's what quake used)

[MrFlibble]

17 hours ago, AntonR said:

is LibreQuake lacking in sound?

Yes, the project could use some help in the sound department, so if you're willing to participate, that would be wonderful!

17 hours ago, AntonR said:

(btw my sounds here have been 11khz bitrate just because I want file sizes and performance to match the originals where possible, also audio gets big easily (and it's a fun limitaiton). So I have designed with 11khz frequency ranges in mind and I don't know if that's what quake used)

Your sound effects certainly sound very good for this level of quality!

 

I just checked, vanilla Quake also uses 8-bit mono 11 kHz WAV files for sound effects. Some are looped, like water and whatnot.

 

Just a note though, recently I contributed some old Freedoom and Blasphemer sounds (explicitly as placeholders), and I was asked if higher-quality sources were available -- although I'm not sure if those are for the inclusion in releases or just for reference.

[AntonR]

I work kinda fast so usually there is just the one version of any finished sound, no project files or anything like that, but I can make higher def ones as well of course, but it would entail remaking things.

[GeorgePieVG]

Updated the iwad build in the opening post. List of changes:

• Added new sounds (thanks @AntonR !).
• Removed some resources, mostly from dev channels from freedoom discord server. I think it's best to wait until these resources are properly added to the attic to make sure I'm not stepping on anyone's toes. Some other resources were not working correctly.
• Updated strings in LANGUAGE to match the new lore.
• Ghoul from Blasphemer is replaced by a skeleton from Army of Darkness TC as an Ettin replacement

[SpartaKiss]

I am totally excited about this project especially since I am a huge fan of the other Free IWAD projects. Unfortunately my abilities just amount to squat when to comes anything outside of ZDoom shenans. The main thing I remember about Hexen was that it introduced robust use of ACS and invented the UDMF format. Sadly, the best I can do is be an amateur historian on this subject. 

[AntonR]

I am excited because there's a possibility it won't have huge messes of convoluted run-back-and-forth "puzzles" because modern mappers know better! and hopefully not many obnoxious clumps of tediously tough enemies! That said, I love Hexen...
...in spite of itself.

[MrFlibble]

To be fair, HeXen is very atmospheric! I am sure that both Raven's art and Kevin Schilder's music contribute a lot to this. And it also feels like its own thing, rather than just a glorified Doom TC.