miniwad MEGAWAD - Vanilla community project for miniwad (25 slots open!)

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

The resource is good to read through and understand, chocorenderlimits is a wonderful port but most important thing is Visplane Explorer. It should be in UDB or available as plugin for other editors or standalone program. It automatically runs through the map and detects places where the limits are exceeded, and highlights them in red. That's especially common in highly detailed and/or big open spaces. You're limited by visplanes, drawsegs and solidsegs here. I honestly don't know how they work, I just keep checking the explorer to see how much more I can do.

If you're standing on the red spot, and look around, the vanilla engine would crash. So you gotta make your geometry with that in mind. These hotspots can be blocked with pillars or walls or to interrupt the sight-lines. This is one of the biggest parts of strict vanilla mapping. It encourages to be more considerate with your line use, and map structure.

Exceeding visplane limit will crash the game, exceeding drawsegs or solidsegs just draws a HOM.

[Мужик с Чашкой]

Okay, here is my attempt at making a map for slot MAP03
MIDI: BlurryBoy - Inside The Castle Walls

I will repeat this once more: we gonna need an alternative miniwad that will act as a pwad and contain only wall/flat/sky textures, so that this community project could be played by a wider audience who just want to experience maps, rather than play fairly exhausting guessing game. The novelity of everything looking the same wears off really quick. It will be a shame to have potentialy good maps be lost to oblivion.

 

Edited September 1 by Мужик с Чашкой

[janiform]

15 hours ago, Мужик с Чашкой said:

I will repeat this once more: we gonna need an alternative miniwad that will act as a pwad and contain only wall/flat/sky textures, so that this community project could be played by a wider audience who just want to experience maps, rather than play fairly exhausting guessing game. The novelity of everything looking the same wears off really quick. It will be a shame to have potentialy good maps be lost to oblivion.

 

 

I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but those screenshots look great! Beautiful lighting work. I agree with you that it would be good to release two versions of this community project. My plan is to include two wads in the final zip file: one version would include our maps and midis along with miniwad's textures (and maybe the charming fonts and menu graphics), and the other version would be the full miniwad experience. What do you think?

 

@Sneezy McGlassFace Thanks for sharing this, that's a really helpful tool!

[Мужик с Чашкой]

1 hour ago, janiform said:

I agree with you that it would be good to release two versions of this community project. My plan is to include two wads in the final zip file: one version would include our maps and midis along with miniwad's textures (and maybe the charming fonts and menu graphics), and the other version would be the full miniwad experience. What do you think?

1. We need a pwad version with only level textures right now, because using it as it is - greatly complicates the process of placing things in UDB since they have no proper graphics to convert them to icons. Implementing different difficulties/deathmatch was a headache of its own.
2. This project can go places far beyond this forum. And if we gonna play with the big boys, then we definitely shall rid of fonts and menu graphics to increase the stability with less traditional sourceports. If things will go smooth, what we will bring on the table are things like umapinfo, additional graphics like titlepic, interpic, endpic, maybe even custom HUD's, etc...
3. In scope of miniwad as a pwad with only map textures - we need to ask map authors to give level names. Imagine doomwiki going with a list of MAP01 - 01, MAP02 - 02, MAP03 - 03... this will be ridiculous. I would give MAP03 a name of "Ocean Dust" by the way.

[Kroc]

19 hours ago, Мужик с Чашкой said:

 

 

It looks like if DOOM was designed for the Amiga500 / AtariST, I love it

[liPillON]

interesting concept, atmospheric screenshots

regarding the enemies' sprites: shouldn't @brightentayle's miniwad variant be more appropriate for a project like this?

 

 

[JeffAri]

I <3 MOUNTAIN AREAS!!!!! ^w^

[janiform]

10 hours ago, Мужик с Чашкой said:

map and suggestions

 

First of all, great work on your map! It's absolutely gorgeous, and the lighting and architecture show just how good these simple textures can look. The sense of place and plot are strong and the use of a secret to

Spoiler

allow players to carry over their equipment to the next map

is a really good idea. The MIDI you chose is really good and fits the map well. Thanks for linking to it.

 

Second, thanks for your suggestions. They've helped me clarify my thinking about this project. In essence, I find miniwad's extreme minimalism interesting because it modifies Doom's gameplay significantly without making any programming changes with Dehacked, etc. It does so simply by removing the audiovisual indicators players usually rely on.  (It also looks beautiful,as @Kroc notes.) My hope with this community project is to give both players and mappers a chance to challenge themselves to play and map differently based on this simple but significant change.

 

For this reason I'm reluctant to make a texture-only pwad for mappers to use - it would convert the project into standard Doom mapping with custom textures, enabling the mapper to ignore miniwad's limited sprites and sounds and their effect on the player's experience, especially when they're playtesting.  For this same reason, upon reflection I'm not inclined to split the project into an optional textures-only version. That would only be an aesthetic change from Doom, like the Paint It Doom community project but with fewer colors. That's a great project, don't get me wrong, but the most interesting thing about miniwad is how it forces you to play differently: determining enemy type by behavior rather than graphics or sounds, managing resources without being able to calculate how much health/armor/ammo is in the level, etc. These are unique challenges for the player and interesting levers for mappers to pull.

 

Playing with the big boys, whoever they are, isn't my goal when proposing niche community projects, but if this project does appeal to people, I hope it is because it embraces the extreme minimalism of miniwad and explores the possibilities of its gameplay changes. Changing the fonts, adding custom HUDs, etc. seems to contradict the whole spirit of the project.

 

As for map titles, those will absolutely be included if people supply them. When the project is finished, I'll include a UMAPINFO lump (and a Dehacked patch if I can figure it out) and level name graphics made using miniwad's font.

 

@liPillON That's a cool project too, but it's only aesthetically different from Doom, whereas miniwad changes how Doom plays. As I've written in this post, it's the way miniwad removes the audiovisual indicators players usually rely on that makes it an interesting challenge to map for and to play.

 

 

Edited September 3 by janiform

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

5 hours ago, janiform said:

determining enemy type by behavior rather than graphics or sounds, managing resources without being able to calculate how much health/armor/ammo is in the level, etc. These are unique challenges for the player and interesting levers for mappers to pull.

Glad you're putting your foot down on this and sticking with the original project idea. It's (gonna be) a completely unique experience for players and for mappers. Making the assets more conventionally approachable would be betraying the spirit radical minimalism, which is the whole point. 

I think it's important to really stop and think how the combat scenarios are constructed and presented in order to help the player understand what's going on. Not just make a regular map and hope they'll figure it out. That makes this whole exercise so interesting. 

[Eviternatus098]

Hi, sorry but I would like to drop my slot.

[janiform]

On 9/4/2024 at 12:34 AM, Eviternatus098 said:

Hi, sorry but I would like to drop my slot.

No problem!

[Мужик с Чашкой]

Okay, here is my attempt at making another map. This one is a tad more difficult than the other. It can easily go to the MAP20 slot.
Name is "Cute Music For You To Die To"
MIDI: Dial-up for Murder - MIDI Nightmares - Neon Glitter

 

I also updated the archive with MAP03. New version is more stable in vanilla and has one additional secret.

[Automaticat]

I would like to claim MAP05. It's already finished, and I should be able to send it in tomorrow.

[DoomGappy]

I will forfeit the project, not due to any disagreement, but because I need some rest. Sorry!

[JeffAri]

my map is done! finally! The map I thought would take a day or two to make but actually took a week! yay!

miniwadmap.zip

 

I would love to hear your suggestions ^w^

also the map is little rough around the edges in some spots since there are some HoM effects in some places when played on chocolate or vanilla doom so be weary of that, they shouldn't appear on most source ports tho, also there is a tiny spot where you can get visplane error but it's such small specific area that it's not much of a problem

The midi used is a midi version of Wish by Nine Inch Nails
(also most the more dangerous monsters are only in co-op btw)

 

here's some screenshots I took in UDB :3

Edited September 9 by JeffAri

[Automaticat]

Here's the promised map05.

miniwad megawad map05.zip

[janiform]

On 9/6/2024 at 9:32 PM, Мужик с Чашкой said:

Maps

The screenshots look great but I'm having trouble downloading this and your update to MAP03. I only get the option to "save to Yandex Disk" or "log in". Could you upload them to Doomworld or another host?

 

@DoomGappy No problem, take care of yourself.

 

@JeffAri Great map. Nice mix of representational and non-representational spaces. I really liked the disorienting series of teleports, and the way you used different lighting levels worked really well. The secrets that

Spoiler

use the old trick of slightly varying the texture feel totally different with these textures.

A few notes:

• It would be good to get ride of the VPO area in the main room - I ran into it naturally while testing. If you made the staircases in the starting area steeper (making them 16 increment steps instead of 8 increment steps) that would solve the problem with minimal changes to the map's look.
• This is a bit large and difficult for a first map but I don't feel like suggesting that tone down the difficulty because it suits the map well. I'm tempted to suggest this map be MAP05 and @Automaticat's map be MAP01.
• I like "Wish" but please choose a MIDI with open permissions, so this set of levels can be shared freely without violating anyone's copyright. If you check the first post there are some suggestions for where you can find MIDIs, or if you'd prefer I or someone else here could find something.
• Do you have a name for this map?

 

@Automaticat Nice work. Straightforward and clear progression, a nice mix of representational and nonrepresentational spaces, works well within vanilla limitations. I love the stained glass window and the little church. This is our second island fortress map! I actually think this would be a good MAP01 if you and @JeffAri are okay with the slots being switched. Do you have a name for this map?

[Automaticat]

12 minutes ago, janiform said:

@Automaticat Nice work. Straightforward and clear progression, a nice mix of representational and nonrepresentational spaces, works well within vanilla limitations. I love the stained glass window and the little church. This is our second island fortress map! I actually think this would be a good MAP01 if you and @JeffAri are okay with the slots being switched. Do you have a name for this map?

I am completely fine with switching my map and JeffAri's. For the name... Maybe Compound?

[JeffAri]

1 hour ago, janiform said:

@JeffAri Great map. Nice mix of representational and non-representational spaces. I really liked the disorienting series of teleports, and the way you used different lighting levels worked really well. The secrets that

  Reveal hidden contents

use the old trick of slightly varying the texture feel totally different with these textures.

A few notes:

• It would be good to get ride of the VPO area in the main room - I ran into it naturally while testing. If you made the staircases in the starting area steeper (making them 16 increment steps instead of 8 increment steps) that would solve the problem with minimal changes to the map's look.
• This is a bit large and difficult for a first map but I don't feel like suggesting that tone down the difficulty because it suits the map well. I'm tempted to suggest this map be MAP05 and @Automaticat's map be MAP01.
• I like "Wish" but please choose a MIDI with open permissions, so this set of levels can be shared freely without violating anyone's copyright. If you check the first post there are some suggestions for where you can find MIDIs, or if you'd prefer I or someone else here could find something.
• Do you have a name for this map?

 

@Automaticat Nice work. Straightforward and clear progression, a nice mix of representational and nonrepresentational spaces, works well within vanilla limitations. I love the stained glass window and the little church. This is our second island fortress map! I actually think this would be a good MAP01 if you and @JeffAri are okay with the slots being switched. Do you have a name for this map?

ok so I went in and changed the midi and now the structure at the start only has one staircase, and I simplified the geometry a tiny bit so now there shouldn't be a Visplane error (please tell me if there is) also I changed the midi to the map 05 midi for the Plutiona midi pack (I think it fits more)
Also yeah I think it might be a little too difficult for map01 so changing the slot would be totally fine (I'm ok with map05 but any slot would be fine, just don't put it really far into the wad please :3)

Also I was thinking the name could be "Telefrag" maybe? Or some kind of pun on teleporters, Since there's a fair amount of teleporters in the map (I <3 TELEPORTERS YAY :D)

miniwadmap.zip

 

Edited September 10 by JeffAri

[janiform]

@Automaticat Sounds good!

 

@JeffAri Perfect, thanks! I don't see any VPOs now and the new music fits the map well. I'll swap your slot and @Automaticat's.

 

We're up to 3 completed maps!

[Мужик с Чашкой]

19 hours ago, janiform said:

The screenshots look great but I'm having trouble downloading this and your update to MAP03. I only get the option to "save to Yandex Disk" or "log in". Could you upload them to Doomworld or another host?

Strange. Let's see if you'll get more luck with the Catbox. However all links there are somewhat temporal, so download it quick.
https://files.catbox.moe/g28h72.wad
https://files.catbox.moe/1swh8c.wad

[JeffAri]

I made some slight adjustments to my map :3 

miniwadmap.zip

(now the secret with the rocket launcher is actually possible to go into lol)

[janiform]

On 9/11/2024 at 9:04 AM, Мужик с Чашкой said:

Strange. Let's see if you'll get more luck with the Catbox. However all links there are somewhat temporal, so download it quick.
https://files.catbox.moe/g28h72.wad
https://files.catbox.moe/1swh8c.wad

 

Sorry I didn't manage to check this sooner, but those links don't work for me either! Also, sorry I keep quoting you - I can't figure out how to @ you on this forum, maybe because I don't know how to enter the Cyrillic(?) characters - copying and pasting doesn't seem to work.

 

@JeffAriThanks for the update!

[JeffAri]

3 hours ago, janiform said:

 

@JeffAriThanks for the update!

yw! :D

[Мужик с Чашкой]

4 hours ago, janiform said:

Sorry I didn't manage to check this sooner, but those links don't work for me either!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u-kLHwJn_j3ZeGm-geWnMmielny6AJkk/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12V1hJ5pxpO1A3xqgc53rBCp1jb12yrkP/view?usp=sharing

Okay, look, neither Yandex nor Catbox worked for you. If even GoogleDrive wont do the job, then there is definitely a problem on your side.

[janiform]

Hi everyone, sorry I've been away from this project. Some serious IRL stuff has come up and it might be a month or two before I can return to the project. I'm extending the deadline to June 1, 2025.