What makes Duke Nukem 3D more atmospheric than Doom?

[Optimus]

I am curious because I can't figure it out. Somehow when I play Duke3D it feels likes something with the contrast of the shadows, the darker versus the bright areas. Are there more lighting values in Duke than Doom or less? Is it something with the palette shades? I know people can make very atmospheric levels in Doom and play with sector lighting and contrast, but somehow when looking at the original Duke levels, it's way beyond anything I've seen in Doom to me. Especially the space episode. They actually also might be too dark at times and with strobbing lights. Another thing that does maybe for it is the music. A lot of the tracks are very atmospheric also.

 

So, does anyone else noticed it, or is it my idea? Is the lighting engine or shade palette in Duke3D so different than Doom that with good use it makes for better atmosphere with more contrasted shadows? Or is it something else?

[Murdoch]

Given "atmospheric" is a very vague and subjective term, I sincerely doubt you're going to get anything useful out of this post.

[Rykzeon]

I'm fairly sure BUILD Engine doesn't have a thing called Fake Contrast. You can adjust individual linedef darkness, colorize it, reverse and mirror the linedef, etc.

[AutumnCyberStarlight]

Depends on what you mean by atmospheric. I think objectively Duke 3D is a more graphically impressive game, but that doesn't mean the original IWADs aren't atmospheric. Like @Murdoch said, what is considered atmospheric is very subjective. I think both games look good and have atmospheric levels.

[GibFrag]

Duke 3D used lighting in a bit different way from Doom. A lot of the lighting plays a part in interactivity. Turn lights on/off, break lamps, etc. The space levels tend to get a lot of complaints but thematically it is intensely atmospheric to the point it is somewhat scary, especially with music like XLPASMA or GLOOMY in the background. I wouldn't say one is better than the other between Doom and Duke as far as atmosphere goes because they aren't really comparable as both games were aiming for something different. Sure, we can point out that the games share many similarities, but their setting and overall tone are drastically different. Interestingly, both Doomguy and Duke have one thing in common. They've both returned home after a previous outing only to find there's no time for a hero's welcome.

[Coopersville]

Slopes, sloped lighting, decals, transparent sprites, coloured lighting, bridges, moving platforms, and a lot of city-based textures can go a long way.

[princetontiger]

Not sure but the first level of Duke3d is forever imprinted in my brain... It's probably my favorite first level of any FPS game to come out in that era (90s)

[MrFlibble]

7 hours ago, GibFrag said:

The space levels tend to get a lot of complaints but thematically it is intensely atmospheric to the point it is somewhat scary, especially with music like XLPASMA or GLOOMY in the background.

Absolutely. The space levels indeed get to create this very dark and oppressive atmosphere the way Doom never does. I think it's a combination of factors, starting from a different choice of colours for the palette, and then generally more detailed and decorated levels. Doom has quite a few gore props, but an alien hive with eggs and captured women is clearly intended to create parallels with Aliens.

 

I think that pacing also plays a part. Doom generally tends to focus on combat more heavily, you basically walk from one encounter with enemies to the next. Duke3D, quite often, lets the player roam and soak in the atmosphere before you run into your next batch of enemies. It helps maintain a sort of suspense, the player keeps thinking, when am I gonna get ambushed next?

 

It's also worth noting that, even though from today's perspective Doom and Duke3D are contemporaries, they actually belong to slightly different generations of FPS titles, given how rapidly the genre evolved back then. Duke3D is intentionally more detailed, and geared towards creating more realistic scenes, because by the time the game went into development it was already established that such kind of realism is possible and desirable. Whereas Doom was way more experimental -- FPS games before it generally weren't more advanced than Wolfenstein 3-D. I think it's also noticeable how Doom hadn't fully shed all of Wolf3D's cartoonishness, in part reflected in the somewhat bright palette with occasionally odd mixtures of colours.

[yakfak]

imo nothing

[97th Century Fox]

The babes

[mrthejoshmon]

I mean, in terms of being literal, the ability to place and use ambient atmospheric noises certainly helps Duke 3D create more of an immersive experience.

 

The ability to use custom coloured lighting too, lots of dark reds going on.

 

The fact the locales are mostly a fairly realistic (for the time) depiction of 90's urban shitholes helps too (Doom is super abstract sometimes, takes away from it a little but also does help it too).

[MrFlibble]

2 hours ago, mrthejoshmon said:

I mean, in terms of being literal, the ability to place and use ambient atmospheric noises certainly helps Duke 3D create more of an immersive experience.

 

The ability to use custom coloured lighting too, lots of dark reds going on.

Yup, I wanted to bring this up too. Doom very clearly lacks ambient sounds, which could go a long way to enhance the environments.

 

2 hours ago, mrthejoshmon said:

The fact the locales are mostly a fairly realistic (for the time) depiction of 90's urban shitholes helps too (Doom is super abstract sometimes, takes away from it a little but also does help it too).

I also think that the levels looking like familiar, or at least clearly human-built environments with absolutely no other human beings around (save for the occasional women, most of them captured with no hope of rescue), and taken over by aliens, actually amplifies the feeling of desolation, perhaps even on a subconscious level. I'm not sure if this was the intended effect, or if 3DR only wanted to create cool-looking realistic levels (just remember the even more ambitious designs of the pre-release versions) and the rest came together on its own, but I think it works pretty well. In a way, it creates a rather unsettling feeling, even if you might not be fully aware of it.

 

Again, even the space levels clearly distinguish between human stations and ships with numerous signs and computer monitors with English text, as well as other indications of human activity, and alien ships and installations. Doom, on the other hand, does not do a lot to emphasize the human origin of the techbases, and urban levels in Doom II do not feature enough detail to make a strong impression of areas once populated by humans but now abandoned.

[Optimus]

3 hours ago, mrthejoshmon said:

I mean, in terms of being literal, the ability to place and use ambient atmospheric noises certainly helps Duke 3D create more of an immersive experience.

 

The ability to use custom coloured lighting too, lots of dark reds going on.

 

The fact the locales are mostly a fairly realistic (for the time) depiction of 90's urban shitholes helps too (Doom is super abstract sometimes, takes away from it a little but also does help it too).

 

Good point, forgot about the ambient sounds which I also see in the build editor you can position at certain places like they are things. I am reminded of the space level where you find the black panel from space odyssey and it does the vibing sounds when you approach.

[Gothic]

Different engine, different capabilities. Also Bobby Prince actually trying to be original in his compositions.

[Boaby Kenobi]

9 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

Yup, I wanted to bring this up too. Doom very clearly lacks ambient sounds, which could go a long way to enhance the environments.

 

This is why PlayStation Doom is my favourite version. It's essentially the same maps but with a totally different tone and atmosphere. Took me a while to get used to the soundtrack of the PC version when I eventually got a computer 

[diosoth]

Interactive environments. Light switches you can use. Drink from a fountain, use a toilet, break things, blow holes in walls. Jumping and swimming underwater.

 

Other Build games handled this in different ways. Redneck Rampage, while lacking in gameplay, had detailed real world places and fun stuff to do like the bowling alley, tornado trashing a trailer park in real time, a gas station that blows up in real time... Blood and Shadow Warrior had their own details.

 

Lots of modern game engines can't even do some of that in real time, needing pre-animated cutscenes.

[Marmiteman02]

The City maps in Duke 3D actually look like Cities. Then you look at the Doom 2 supposed attempts at ''City Maps'' and it's night and day.