Concerned - Doom Megawad - Now on Idgames

[LodiB88]

How about just do Ep3 on pistol start period? Seems like cannonball wants to have things very playable that way.

And about traps, definitely not all of them should be stuck in the room variety, a mix of a few of those and some escape resistance in the others would be nice happy medium IMO. Just not ones you can run from without effort at all.

[Steve D]

LodiB88 said:

How about just do Ep3 on pistol start period? Seems like cannonball wants to have things very playable that way.

As long as I have time, I'll do it both ways. If I have to give one up, I'll give up continuous. One nice thing about pistol-starting is that if a particular map is too much for me on UV, I can always try HMP or even all the way down to ITYTD, like I did for Stardate. You can't do that when playing continuous, so if I'm the only one testing on continuous, I'm the only one who can give cannonball the info on how the difficulty curve is working for continuous players.

We continuous players enjoy certain advantages, but also face different challenges. For pistol starters, finishing the map at 1% is a win. For continuous players, it's a catastrophe unless the next map has Zerks or Soulspheres laying around in the start room. Of course, we can always pistol-start the next map if we can't find health in time, but we don't want to. ;)

[LodiB88]

I think you have it down well. Both ways ideal, but since you already did continuous on most of Ep2, let pistol have priority on Ep3.

[Jayextee]

What about loading the exit rooms of maps with medikits? I usually put a couple in my maps.

The thinking there is that it doesn't ruin the balance for pistol-starters since the level is basically finished; but a nice health replenish before the next level is welcome for those who play continuous -- and with medikits/stimpacks there's no going over 100, which is a nice cap.

[Steve D]

Jayextee said:

What about loading the exit rooms of maps with medikits? I usually put a couple in my maps.

The thinking there is that it doesn't ruin the balance for pistol-starters since the level is basically finished; but a nice health replenish before the next level is welcome for those who play continuous -- and with medikits/stimpacks there's no going over 100, which is a nice cap.

Excellent solution! That's typical of id maps, a couple Medikits. No need to get continuous players back up to 100% though. For the advantage they have in carrying weapons and ammo from map to map, they should never be given more than 50% health at the end. Just enough to give them a fighting chance.

[cannonball]

Jayextee said:

What about loading the exit rooms of maps with medikits? I usually put a couple in my maps.

The thinking there is that it doesn't ruin the balance for pistol-starters since the level is basically finished; but a nice health replenish before the next level is welcome for those who play continuous -- and with medikits/stimpacks there's no going over 100, which is a nice cap.

That will do nicely as a solution.

[Steve D]

@cannonball

Just noticed the subject header change. ROFL!!!!!

[cannonball]

SteveD said:

@cannonball

Just noticed the subject header change. ROFL!!!!!

Thought you would like it. I must implement one into a map though :P
Edit- shoved it into E1M7 :)

[Steve D]

cannonball said:

Thought you would like it. I must implement one into a map though :P
Edit- shoved it into E1M7 :)

Nothing could shock me more than such enthusiasm for The Pestov Platform. Can't wait to see how you implemented it. ;D

[Steve D]

E3M2 (Continuous) – Kills – 99, Items – 85, Secret – 33. Time 24:05. End Health – 55, Armor 68. Death Count – 4

E3M2 (Pistol Start) – Kills – 96, Items – 85, Secret – 33. Time 19:18. End Health – 86, Armor 37. Death Count – 1

Sorry I’m a bit late with this. I suffered Pollen Narcolepsy last night, plus I did a lot of yapping about my RoC Map09. ;D

On to yours. As expected, I did better on pistol start than continuous play.

The map itself is very nicely constructed, the visual highlight for me being the room with the Firestick platforms. I also liked all the FirewalA detailing. Overall a very good-looking map, but then, I’m a sucker for the Gstone/Marb look.

I should also mention that I loved the music track.

Once again you go for the meat lover’s game with a shit-ton of Pinkies, Spectres, and my favorite . . . Barons. As we all know, I love the hitscanner game. I don’t hate the meat game, but my preference should be kept in mind as the context behind all my gameplay comments. First comment being that, yes, it was sloggy for yours truly thanks to the 13 Barons on UV, and the diabolical use of Pinkies and Spectres who effectively served as a meat shield for the big, goat-legged bastards. ;D

Very nice start to this one. Loved the Sergeant trap. On continuous, it worked better for me to race up to the Imp platform after grabbing the shotgun, then plinking the Sergeants by shooting through the columns. I died once in this section. On pistol start, it worked better to grab the shotgun and backtrack, because I had enough health to take a hit or two. It was easier to kill the Sergeants by corner abuse from the start area. Used less shells that way.

The turreted Baron in the courtyard was a real pain at this point in the game, as I had to keep an eye on him while killing everything else, and then I had to waste a bunch of ammo killing him before I could safely proceed.

It was a nice, hectic fight in the red key area. This was my favorite part of the map because it had that insane trap. My only death on pistol start occurred here, whereas I died 3 times on continuous because I was never able to push my health up to a safe level, thus it was hard to survive long enough to get the Zerk. Life got better after I found the Zerk, but it was hard to find punching opportunities against the Pinkies with Lost Souls and Caco fireballs flying around. I mostly used bullets and shells in this area. But it really was a fucking cool trap. I loved this fight, to be honest. This is what Doom is all about to me, sheer panic. ;D

After this it was time to manage the Barons guarding the red key. I did much better on pistol start because I coaxed them both down to the lower level, then ran past them and into the courtyard. The last thing I wanted to do was waste ammo on them. You probably punch them out, but that’s not in my skill set, so for me it was a pure slog dealing with them.

After some trivial combat with Cacos in the courtyard, we come to the fight I didn’t like so much.

The Firestick room beyond the red door was Meat Hell for me. I spent a ton of time trying to dodge around Pinkies, Spectres and Barons. I wanted to punch the Pinkies and Spectres, but with Baron slime in the air, it was too risky. On top of that, in a map with a low hitscanner count, the ones you did use were often very effectively placed, like the shotgunners on the upper platforms. They were the main threat in this room. On continuous, I learned a bit late that I could race up there and blast them, rather important since they almost killed me. I was blasted down to 12% before I got lucky and a Baron took out the last Sergeant. I still died one last time in there when I dodged into a Pinkie and was hemmed in, then slimed by a Baron. On pistol start I raced right up to the platform, but was kinda stuck up there for awhile as I looked for opportunities to punch Pinkies when the Barons weren’t close. And then your trickling teleport monsters kept bringing more meat, along with the occasional deadly Sergeant.

Basically, this seemed to go on and on forever. Even with the rocket launcher. I kept jumping down to rocket a Baron, only to have some damned Pinkie get in the way. I kept racing down the stairs to punch Pinkies, only to have some damned Baron lumber up and fling slime, managing to miss Pinkies every time, so I had no luck at the infighting game. Eventually, I did manage to punch enough Pinkies to death to start letting fly with rockets and shells, but it took a long, long time. With more ammo, I could have played more aggressively, but these maps are quite stingy, so I had to hoard my rockets and shells, and as a result it wasn’t too exciting. The Barons were not actually dangerous, they just kept blocking me from doing things I wanted to do.

In the end, on pistol start, I got shitty luck again because the Barons I’d lured to the lower level of the Big Trap Area managed to emerge just as I was going for the exit, and I had to kill them both, leaving me very low on shells and rockets, with a Baron, Lost Souls, and Imps inside the exit area. I was able to run past them all, though, so I was happy.

The only secret I found was the chaingun. Too bad I didn’t get the PG, it would have made a huge difference. Now, while I chuckle at the thought of how you managed to miss the rocket launcher secret with its great big texture offset in Map09 of RoC, you must laugh at me missing the one green firestick in a room of red firesticks, that would have led me to the PG. I’ll have to set my Secret Radar to cannonball, and keep my eyes peeled for this kinda thing.

Final thoughts are that this is a map that seems geared for Baron punchers. It’s a sloggy go for those of us who aren’t Tysons, though if I’d been luckier and more observant snd gotten the PG, I coulda shaved 5 or 6 minutes from my time, because I would’ve wasted ammo on the Pinkies. I saw no flaws and every switch I encountered worked. Good map.

[cannonball]

haha, I might add a few more rockets around the level just to be nice.
I'm very glad that whilst fixing any bugs in the map I decided to give the visuals an overhaul and also add a little more interconnectivity. I think it turned out nice.
You are going to hate the start of the next map :D

[Steve D]

More rockets? Heh, when what I really want is a box of shells. ;) But I'll take rockets for when those pesky Barons work their way to the courtyard.

I got interrupted again last night. I'll spare you the greusome details. I seek to do 2 maps tonight and then do a marathon tomorrow. Might have to give up continuous to make it. I'll do both as long as I can.

[LodiB88]

What is a 'Pestov platform'? Honestly that's foreign terminology to me.

[Capellan]

LodiB88 said:

What is a 'Pestov platform'? Honestly that's foreign terminology to me.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1181595

[Steve D]

E3M3 (Continuous) – DNF – Death Count - 9

E3M3 (Pistol Start on HNTR) – Kills – 100, Items – 68, Secret – 25.
Time 19:11. End Health – NA, Armor NA. Death Count – 1

Contrary to your predictions, I didn’t mind the start at all. Yes, I died 3 times in a row, but I knew I’d win in the end. I noted your homage to MM2’s The Shaft, one of my least-favorite maps of all time. Why? Because of that fucking Shaft!!!! ;D.

The gameplay on UV was not to my liking. It’s the meat-lover’s game taken to a serious extreme for yours truly. While I don’t hate the meat game, there are things about it that I do hate, such as having Pinkies in front of me and then Pinkies teleporting immediately behind me on lava! Oh, such a jagoff move you made! So, it seems to me that a big part of the meat-lover’s game is restraining the player, hemming them in, preventing them from getting through the meat unless they are gifted punchers. On top of that, you had some really squinchy areas, such as at the red key, that made it all the easier for the meat to corner me, restrain me, and kill me. How many times have I said I don’t like to be restrained? It’s like the feeling I get when I’m watching a movie and some woman wants to go somewhere and some guy grabs her by the arm to restrain her, and I wish that with her free hand she’d pull a gun and blow his fucking brains out. That’s how much I hate being restrained. ;D The main thing about that type of restraint is that one person imposes their will on the other, which I don’t like.

Allow me to also mention the use of lava as a restraint. It seemed to be everywhere in enough quantities to catch you while dodging.

But I got through all your nasty meat traps, including the blue key trap that unleashed 24 Imps and 6 Pinkies. I died at least a couple times there. And your diabolical monster placement and room design at the red key was murder on me. More death. Had to love that Baron teleporting behind me. Hello, Tricks ‘n Traps! I’ve used that one myself, so no complaints.

However, the build-up of irritations, annoyances and anger through the course of the map caught up with me in The Fucking Platform Room. Egads! It’s like an Amigan designed this damned room. They love their godforsaken platformers, which proves they’re mentally deranged. I might be the only platformer-hating Amigan, which means I’m the only sane one. ;D Oh, this room was a nightmare. First, I was restrained from even getting in there by a meat wall of Cacos and Lost Souls. Then I go in and am under fire from everywhere, including 2 Sergeants cruelly placed below me and off to the side. And running up a curving set of platforms placed rather far apart – and remind to make note of your jagoffy long jump design for the PG secret – Grrrrrrrrr!!!!!! – oh, what fun this is for a keyboarder.
Fall off, die. Fall off, die. Yay.

Enough was enough. I could hear Edward G. Robinson delivering his classic lines from Little Caesar, “You’re getting soft, see? You can dish it out but you can’t take it no more.” I had to agree with Eddie. I couldn’t take any more of this.

But rather than be all butthurt and bitch and whine more than I already have, I decided to be water and seek my own level. Since I’m not really cut out for the meat-lover’s game, I decided my level was HNTR. I still hated The Fucking Platform Room, but I got through it on the first try. My only death came at the blue key Imp/Pinkie trap, when just as I shotgunned the last Imp, a Pinkie came up behind me and away I went with just one bite.

Just want to note that aside from the PG, I got the Soulsphere/Bacpack combo.

But let’s look at the wonders of your map. It is really gorgeous. I thought the blue key area was super-tasty. Every part of it looked good, and yes, I have to admit, even The Fucking Platform Room was absolutely glorious. Even the music track was outstanding.

Gameplay on HNTR pistol-start was very solid and challenging for someone not geared to this type of combat. It was just enough, really, thanks to a more manageable number of monsters and fewer of those damned Barons. Everything I encountered worked and I saw no flaws, except insofar as those damned platforms are too far apart. Jeez, and I thought I was a jagoff. ;D Overall, this is an outstanding map which I think will be greeted with cries of joy by all the meat-lovers out there.

BTW, in the interests of speed, and to finish the mapset today, I’m playing HNTR Continuous, because it’s obvious that this mapset is only going ro deliver more and more meat as it goes on, so why end up rage-quitting more maps when I can just gear down to a more appropriate setting? I’ll be looking for flaws and misalignments. I also plan to nominate this for the DWMC’s next new-wad month. I see this as a major release, and the beauty of Ultimate Doom is that continuous players can choose their difficulty episode-by-episode. I’ll try this episode at HMP. ;)

[Steve D]

E3M4 – Kills – 98, Items – 90, Secret – 33. Time 20:54. End Health – 2, Armor 144. Death Count – Zero

Yeah, exited the map at 2% health because I just had to be an idiot and teleport into the SpiderQueen’s den. What could I do but haul out the PG and say, “Only one of us gets out alive, bitch!” I have never done that kind of up-close and personal duel with the SpiderQueen, and I gotta admit, it was exhilarating.

This was another excellent map, except for one thing – I hated the music track. It was overwhelming and took too much attention away from the game. I ultimately did IDMUS17.

Probably the biggest surprise in this map was all the Demons but no Zerk, unless you find the Computer Map secret, which I didn’t. I’ve become so accustomed to punching Pinkies that using the shotgun on them seemed both unnatural and offensive. ;D Such has been my evolution since joining the DWMC, best move I ever made in my Dooming career.

This map once again has great flow and good looks, and a very nice number of enemies on HNTR. It’s quite manageable, but I still got raked good a few times, so I had to stay alert. The SpiderQueen exit room was gimmicky but fun, and looked fantastic.

A couple things I noticed – the SW1Hot switch in Sector 186 in the lower lava room has vertically misaligned side textures. Also, the lift sectors 217 and 219 have the same Flat5_2 texture as the surrounding floors, making it a little confusing because it’s easy to forget that lifts are there. I can see that the classic lift textures don’t fit properly, though if you narrowed the lifts they would. It’s a judgment call.

Overall, this is another fine map. I forgot to mention that I enjoyed the switchy sequence at the start that gave access to the upper platform at Sector 71. Very classic Doom kinda stuff.

I’ll be starting the marathon later this afternoon. 5 maps to go!

[cannonball]

haha E3M3 is the "lets make a map with no boss monsters but make the map as evil as possible"
You need to straferun to make the platform jumps at the end. I will add a radsuit on UV and another one on lower difficulties so you can at least afford a fail on the platforms. The rest of the map I place the radsuits tactically so you should be able to handle the lava sections ok if you are swift.
E3M4, you are lucky you played on HNTR, you missed out on an evil cyber placement in the SP_HOT1 room :P
Anyway I aligned the textures and reduced the height of the lifts by 8 and gave them a dark rock texture so they stand out now.
Good luck on your marathon, E3M5 is pretty hard, E3M6 is quick, E3M7 isn't too difficult till the end, E3M8 is huge so good luck and E3M9 from previous experience will kill you a million times ;D

[LodiB88]

You'd better make sure whatever you play E3M9 in telefrags when it should with 100% efficiency. No other spoilers though.

[Steve D]

cannonball said:

haha E3M3 is the "lets make a map with no boss monsters but make the map as evil as possible"

And you did a good job of it. ;D But if it wasn't for the platform room, I'd have bludgeoned my way through on UV.

cannonball said:

You need to straferun to make the platform jumps at the end.

Yet I made it on plain old Always Run. Please note that I'm not encouraging you to put them even farther apart. ;D

Glad I missed that Cyb. I think close quarters combat would have ended much worse than it did with SpiderQueen . . .

As for E3M9, I guess we'll put my, "I like to get killed" idea to the test. ;)

[Steve D]

LodiB88 said:

You'd better make sure whatever you play E3M9 in telefrags when it should with 100% efficiency. No other spoilers though.

Uh-oh . . .

[Steve D]

E3M5 – Kills – 100, Items – 98, Secret – 100. Time 44:58. End Health – 150, Armor 148. Death Count – 2

I flat-out loved this map. CBPandemonium! Sandy would be proud. The very definition of “interconnected.” Damn, it’s easy to get yourself in trouble here, since every move you make plunges you into another set of monsters, and once things get going, roamers keep popping up just when you think everything is clear.

I think the map looks fantastic. Some parts feel otherworldly thanks to the excellent lighting and texture choices. I especially like the Concrete area with the big platforms at Sectors 156 and 158, separated by the lava river. It’s a good reminder of how awesome those Concrete textures are. The overall texture flow in this map is top-notch.

I got killed twice at the same trap when, after finding the secret in Sector 346, I walked out into Sector 35, rounded the corner in Sector 48 and set off the trigger line that unleashed 3 Spectres on my ass while faced with a Caco in front. Sweet! I’d also like to praise the lighting in this corridor with Tlite6_4 sectored as individual lights. Do we not love DB2’s View Ceiling Textures feature?

A slight niggle is that the ending fights are kind of easy. I punched it out with the Pinkies, rocketed the Barons, and BFGed the Cyb. It was a great-looking area, and the sky texture rules.

Everything I encountered worked and I saw no flaws except that the SP_Hot in Sector 330 of the BFG room is horizontally misaligned on Linedef 2276 on the south corner of the corridor that triggers the BFG platform. And in Sector 174 there’s a Woodgarg texture on Linedef 1182 with its head partly in the ceiling. Among other things, this makes it look like a possible secret. It’s a judgment call whether this needs to be changed.

BTW, my very long time was from wandering around looking for secrets after everything was dead.

Overall, this might be my favorite map so far.

[Steve D]

E3M6 – Kills – 95, Items – 92, Secret – 50. Time 13:21. End Health – 64, Armor 6. Death Count – 3

Another gorgeous map. Very simple layout. Boss fight rooms were easy, but the Cub fight with all his buddies in the main room killed me three times until I saw an opening and hauled ass out of the map. I had found the red key but didn’t use it, because I had rockets on my feet when I saw the exit. ;D

I was confused for a second when I teleported out of the Cyb room until I realized there were two teleporters in the main room. My lifetime supply of Dumbass Pills was working again! ;D

Not much more to say about this one. I saw no flaws, everything worked.

I liked it.

[Steve D]

E3M7 – Kills – 96, Items – 90, Secret – 62. Time 49:14. End Health – 107, Armor 93. Death Count – Zero

Variation on a theme by pcorf! The influence of The Great Satan knows no bounds! So what are you gonna give him for this one, your first-born child? ;D

Gigantic, stupendously easy map, at least on HNTR. It’s a cannonball Christmas as he deluges you with health and ammo and 379 monsters on HNTR. Looks like this would be a cakewalk even on UV except for the 3 extra Cybs, though the Cybs encountered here were easily dusted off.

The SpiderQueen in the end area was actually the most dangerous of the bosses. The rest were trivial.

For the first time ever I was using the PG and RL as my main weapons, because I kept running out of shells and bullets but not plasma and rockets. What fun to blast whole hordes of low-level hellspawn. Let the Imps go flying! Fear no Baron, or even gangs of Barons, when you have this many rockets you can incinerate them from a safe distance. Wheee!!!!!!

It must be said that the difficulty curve of this mapset is a bit odd in that it gets easier as you go along. ;D

Somehow, despite getting the Computer Map, I couldn’t figure out all the secrets, especially those tempting Soulspheres on columns.

I looked here and there for obvious texture misalignments and found none, quite impressive in a map of this size, especially with all that Metal1, a truly notorious texture and easy to misalign. You even managed to align a large and angled Tekwall2 area. Thumbs up!

This was yet another great-looking map with another outstanding music track. Maybe pcorf’s? I had fun, especially at the final fight because I found the Invuln. Once again, everything I encountered worked. It’s a nice long adventure and I liked it.

As for where I’m at in the marathon, E3M8 is taking awhile. This is a stunningly beautiful map and the fights are vicious. I’ve died 7 times and I only have the blue key! I just died in a big corridor fight after beating the 3rd SpiderQueen I’ve encountered so far. I have to take a break for now and will return to it later today, but IMO, this is serving as a great capstone to the megawad. Magnificent map. I especially appreciate the subtle gradient lighting.

You can wait on me or release it now as you wish. I’ll finish E3M8 for certain either way.

[cannonball]

Cool, I fixed the little texture issues on E3M5.
I will idgames this Monday definitely

[Steve D]

cannonball said:

Cool, I fixed the little texture issues on E3M5.
I will idgames this Monday definitely

All is good, I will be done by tomorrow. In case I DNF E3M9, I'll do a God Mode walkthrough looking for errors and checking functionality.

Going back an episode, E2M3 is titled Hydrophonic Facility. I suppose this could mean that you're a fan of either Soup Dragons or Monsoon, or perhaps you meant Hydroponic? Or maybe you just like the sound of Hydrophonic. Thought I'd bring that up in case it was an error.

[cannonball]

SteveD said:

Going back an episode, E2M3 is titled Hydrophonic Facility. I suppose this could mean that you're a fan of either Soup Dragons or Monsoon, or perhaps you meant Hydroponic? Or maybe you just like the sound of Hydrophonic. Thought I'd bring that up in case it was an error.

I didn't want to get sued by Rottking :P
Fixed some visual issues in E3M7 (mostly involving STONE_1 textures).

[Steve D]

E3M8 – DNF - Death Count – 14

It seems I accidentally played this map on UV, because I had 2 Cybs on the yellow key platform at the end. I thought for sure I had gone to HNTR on E3M3 and stayed there, but possibly the UV setting in R3D’s launcher switched me to UV before, or somewhere during the gameplay. I never would have guessed that saved games could be altered in this way. No wonder I kept thinking, “Damn, this is the hardest HNTR map ever!” ;D

Well, this is in many ways the most awesome Ultimate Doom hell map I’ve ever seen. The structure is beautiful, the lighting spectacular, and the fights are very good throughout. I was gnashing my teeth several times over your curved hitscanner galleries because they were so damned effective at injuring me. I remember seeing these structures at least as far back as E2M1, but here they are higher and deadlier.

I didn’t mind the boss fights too much even though there was a ton of Spideys and Cybs about. The worst single fight was against the Spidey in Sector 870, because I fought it so stupidly after killing the hitscanners. I decided to be cautious, which got me killed a couple times while I tried to dance between columns and time the Queen’s moves. She was better at timing than I was. Then I cheated and looked at the map to figure out your crazy Invuln secret. I thought I had it locked, only to get killed a few times trying to get it. I then noticed the Blue Armor on a platform and decided to grab it and fight the Queen aggressively. I ran out on the lava and stood there and let the queen come to me. 2.5 BFG blasts later, I was victorious. But I’m pretty sure Spidey accounted for all my deaths in this half of the adventure.

Things went downhill a bit when the Cyb in the small room in Sector 713 was revealed. Chained inside by a Block Monster line, the Cyb offered a dangerous but boring and sloggy battle. I finished him off with the shotgun by sidestepping from the bottom of the stairs. I was at 17% health after lots of splash damage, mostly when I’d used rockets from the outer stairs in the main hall. This battle took way too long. A shame, since it tarnished a beautiful space, the beauty thanks to exceptional lighting on the stairs.
There was also a Block Monster line at the red key that held back the Barons, though I’m guessing it was there to keep the Cyb inside during the opening battle.

IMO, things went completely pear-shaped when I gazed upon the lava lake, the Cybs on platforms, and armies of Pinkies and Cacos heading my way. I grabbed the radsuit, went out there, and did surprisingly well at promoting infights. Before I’d fired a shot, 1 Cyb was dead, as were legions of Cacos and Pinkies. The remaining Cyb was engaged by Cacos firing from all sides. The total mass of monster flesh was much thinner now, so I finished off the Cyb and started to BFG the Cacos and Pinkies. I found myself in the Soulsphere area, and I press a switch, and up come some stairs, separated by too much distance, curving up to a platform, and I say, “Please, God, tell me this isn’t happening. Didn’t I just go through this with a Bagrow map yesterday morning?” But it is true, and it just gets worse.

I look around, see I’m out of radsuits, and I’m on the shores of a giant lava lake and here we go with some platform nonsense that makes E3M3, and Bagrow Map14, look easy by comparison. So I check out of the map by going into God Mode and clipping up to the platforms. I had been loving the map until this point and suddenly here’s this giant – to me – dick move that equals a colossal buzzkill. I can’t think of any map where I’ve had a similar reaction, where the end has taken me so completely out of it. I still love everything that came before this, but you know me by now. You’ve read my commentary, which is always negative where platforming is concerned, so take what I say in that context. You gotta follow your bliss, and it’s not like anyone’s paying you for this, so do what you wanna do and let the devil take the hindmost.

But there’s more . . .

After going into God Mode and getting the yellow key, 2 Cybs ambush me on the platform when the yellow door turns out to be a switch that opens their closet. Oh, such larks! And then the Pinkies and Barons teleport in. You shoulda heard my, “Oh, hell no!” Eventually got the elevator going up to a terrace with 2 more Cybs plus Barons sliming from the walls, and there’s this giant picture of somebody – who dat? – with a slit in their head like this is a Doom 2 IoS map. How could hell be any worse? I soon find out! Eventually I get up on a platform and start rocketing the slit to no effect. It’s rather small. And even worse, auto-aim keeps pulling my rockets down to the chin and chest of whoever is in that picture, making this here thing seems totally borked. It reminds me of that 2002:AD10 map by pcorf with the picture in the secret area. But for sheer demonic pleasure, I get strafed by a fucking Spider Mastermind that seems to be floating in the sky outside the wall. This is probably the 15th “You gotta be kidding me!” moment since I laid eyes on that infernal lake.

Anyway, I have no patience for this, even on God Mode, so I quit the level.

Everything I encountered worked, except for that head slit in the picture which, when I examined the map, I still couldn’t figure out, unless exiting the map requires you to kill yourself by blowing up the barrel and annihilating your voodoo doll. I can’t help wondering why you put the barrel and doll so low, since they draw fire to the chin and chest of the picture texture. Maybe I should have BFGed the damn thing.

Here’s hoping I find time to check E3M9.

[cannonball]

Heh, I don't know why autoaim wanted to aim down for you, this is a another tested in vanilla/pr-boom, zdoom/gzdoom where it works for all of them.
The explosion will not kill you (takes about 25% health as the barrel only does enough to push the voodoo doll across a teleport line and telefrags the spider mastermind in the sky. I put health kits up on the platform to make sure you don't die if you have very low health. From what you are saying, it appears Risen3D has some very strange features because there is no way that weapons should be aiming at the voodoo doll and barrel.
Getting on the first platform is probably the hardest. Once you are on there you can make the rest easily plus each platform you make, a lift will raise meaning you don't have to do the whole thing again. I'm not that evil. I might fiddle with the first platform section to make it a little easier.
I worked around a solution to that cyber you had an issue with, there is a third floor to lower which can only be lowered after the first two, there are 2 cell packs in there with the switch.
Lastly there are little changes in difficulty settings. I went for something a bit different. BFG location. HNTR is with the rocket launcher and plasma gun. HMP is in both the red/blue key rooms, and UV well it's available t the switch which opens up the lava area.

[Steve D]

I made a mistake at the beginning of my comments -- it was the yellow door platform, not the yellow key platform that I was referring to. D'oh!

I think I'll write Abbs about the auto-aim issue. It was a huge problem for me in Bagrow Map14, where I could be on that toxic barrel platform, hiding behind the tall shield and trying to rocket the Revvie up above, but the rocket went right into the floor trying to get the Manc way down below. I'm not sure any of the source ports have auto-aim exactly like Vanilla Doom. I forget if it's GZDoom where it's super-hard to hit barrels, but Risen3D isn't the greatest barrel-hitter either. Another option is to turn off auto-aim temporarily in situations where the mapper is trying to get you by, as DoTW said, exploiting aspects of the game engine.

Making that first platform easier to reach is a very good idea. After all that difficult fighting, the last thing we want is to end up falling in lava again and again. It's a cheap form of difficulty. Very tempting to do, but still cheap. There was more than enough great honest combat in this map, why tarnish the memory by going for frustration?

I might use this map to practice using the mouse for these curvy platform bits. My problem here is lack of directional control from keyboarding, so if you put a few jinks in the platform path, I'm liable to end up in the lava. My dearest wish, of course, is that mappers would resist the temptation to turn Doom into Sonic The Hedgehog, but since this keeps on happening I might as well be better prepared for it. ;D

[Steve D]

Update: I turned off auto-aim in R3D and placed several rockets through the hole, but the SM was never telefragged. I tried it in GZDoom with auto-aim and, as you said, once I got rockets in, the trick worked.

BTW, maybe I wasn't looking for changes, but I still don't know how to exit the map. ;D