The DWmegawad Club plays: ConC.E.R.Ned & Draft Excluder

[Capellan]

Put me down in the "if the author doesn't want you to use the minimap, they should set the lines as secret" crowd. IMO the onus is on the author, not the player.

[Memfis]

scifista42 said:

Many mappers deliberately (I suppose?) leave both options possible.

Imo they are just lazy to work on that or aren't aware of the problem at all. But who knows... In any case, I don't find abusing the automap a satisfying way to search for secrets. No sense of accomplishment in that.

e1m9 - first map I didn't really like. The structure is quite simple and it relies on same ideas too much. I know it's an arena so some simplicity is to be expected of course, but it's just not a good one in my eyes. It's very basic and there is no challenge that could compensate for that.

[Magnusblitz]

So is the rule we do M1 and M2 on the first day, M3 on the second, M4 on the third, etc, with the secret map added to whatever day of the map that links to it?

E1M3: The Cleanser
100% kills, 5/5 secrets

Another good map, I like the design of the opening room, clearing out the bottom portion then wrapping around the stairs to clean out the top before getting the Unholy Cathedral-type 4 doors opening into the rest of the level. It's a pretty linear affair after that, but still has some good battles to blast through (even if finding the mega-armor made them a bit easy). Took me awhile to find the blue key but was pretty happy when I finally did. Only thing I can gripe with is that train car at the end... needs some rounded corners or something so it doesn't just look like another blocky room!

E1M9: Atomsmasher
100% kills, 2/2 secrets

Hmm, would've thought the atom smasher would be where the portal opened up, but I guess not. Still a hefty amount of demons though - basically a big ring and an inner room, with a 'go get em' objective. Unfortunately, as Capellan notes, the action is a bit sub-par here, just because the monsters aren't that threatening and the room is too big for them. Maybe some sort of modernized, 'wait for the bars to slooooooowly open' would've been better.

[Pirx]

pistol-started the maps (uv, gzdoom)

e1m1:

nice easy first map. e1 style, concrete walls. i also like how secrets are hinted at. i'm not a fan of humping walls. there are barrels provided to blow up enemies (here and also in later maps). here i shot all imps and zombies on the ledge and the stupid barrels were still intact. the map reminded me of one gripe i have with ultimate doom: the shotty takes too long to get enemies, especially demons, out of my way. no boom & snort.


e1m2:

these sergeants at the windows of the bunkers surrounding the courtyard can shoot you up badly if you're just busy with imps and demons. snipe those first. getting the chaingun and the invisibility makes the sergeants warping into the courtyard easy. i found the rocket launcher during my first playthrough by accident, that is falling into the acid pool. here one can use it against cacos and the caged imps.


e1m3:

the chainsaw helps saving a lot of ammo, especially used on the cacos emerging at the red key. it took me some time to find the blue key, just had to press against the column, but ignored the room as i had been there before, obtaining the blue armor. i suspect this has been deliberately designed this way because players would ignore an otherwise uninteresting, small room. clever ;)
standard e1 architecture without much diversion (copypasted, as has been said), excepting the room with the switch on the "island" where i managed to blow myself up by smacking a rocket meant for those cacos into the switch.

regarding the automap: if the mapper gives me one, then i don't see how using it would be cheating.


e1m9:

a bit large for the e1 beastiary to be threatening. guess i was supposed to fight the caco swarm inside the inner room, but it's much easier to smack the imps at the gallery while the cacos pile up in front of the door, then pump about 20 rockets into the room. the imp & baron mix that teleports in when you open the triple lock can be left to solve their problems alone.

[Salt-Man Z]

E1M3: The Cleanser
100% everything. The blue key was cinch to find after nabbing the automap (which is probably the hardest secret to find, though it's the kind of thing I always check.) Very fun map; I didn't mind the copious radsuits, especially as there was so much toxic ground to cover, and I like the clock-is-ticking pressure of needing to run back and nab another suit before this one runs out. Kind of a boxy level, but still a lot of fun.

E1M9: Atomsmasher
100% everything again. Liked this one a lot, too. However, making it so the monsters couldn't walk out into the (particle accelerator?) outer hallway made things a lot less interesting than if they had the ability to get loose and wander around after you. The most threatened I got though, was in one of the key rooms (yellow?) where I got ambushed down to 30% health or so. It was still fun enough that I can't really complain, though.

[Demon of the Well]

Alright alright, never played either of these before. Even though these WADs are both already on the books, so to speak, just for shits and/or giggles I think I'll join mouldy in posting some (skill 4) FDAs, bound to make a fool out of myself sooner or later, I reckon.

E1M1 -- Toxic Touchdown - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
This was a nonevent, which I suppose isn't so shocking given that it's just E1M1. Small numbers of low-level opposition who make simple frontal assaults over flat ground, if they make any assaults at all, that is--Doomguy's generally much quicker on the draw. Only distinguishing characteristic to the action I can think of is that there's a lot of separation between the player and the monsters--lots of guys stuck across gaps or on ledges or the like instead of being able to approach the player. A couple of elementary pushwall secrets onhand to see that that box is also checked, unfortunately I never really got a good opportunity to use the chainsaw. Someone mentioned homages at play, but I didn't really notice anything that jumped out at me as a reference to anything specific--everything we see here is generalized all-purpose KDiTD patois, if a bit flatter and a bit airier than normal.

Yes, flat airy open boxes (often with central skylight) with depressions, and/or ooze pits and/or chunks of anonymous machinery in their centers, that's the look we're looking at, early Cannonball to a tee. Nothing much to fixate on, but nothing that really offends the eye, either (kind of hard to make a KDiTD-flavored map that looks truly appalling, though, given how natural the signature textures generally look together)--texturing and light levels are sensible if unassuming, and there are the requisite little bits of starter-kit detail here and there, ala the nukage dissolving the floor in front of the exit door. I almost think the level would stand out more visually if it went true 90s and eschewed this stuff (I reckon it's a lot like a visual analog to white noise for many players these days), but I suspect it'll look more natural as the rooms grow in size in later maps. Oh, and apparently there is Power Ranger music in the background....I didn't recognize the tune, I guess that show was a bit after my time.

Very speedmappy E1M1, with very simplistic action, not to my taste. I'll swallow your soul if you go Fava Beans on me for this entire first episode, Cannonball!

(Nah, he wouldn't do that. He's cool like that.)

E1M2 -- Mutagenic Quarantine - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
I spend some time looking for a way into the soulsphere secret before finding one in the demo, sorry about that. Incidentally, I also find one of the secrets as a result of it showing on the automap, as Memfis mentioned--I don't view this as cheating (since the map can still be one of your most useful tools in locating secrets even in maps where the secrets themselves are totally concealed from it), it's more like routine capitalization on a routine mapper mistake.

A larger portion of more of the same fare from Toxic Touchdown, pretty much. Indeed, the increase in the general scale of the surroundings is the biggest change--monsters are appearing at about the same frequency and same overall level of density as in M1, but because rooms themselves are much larger now the natural consequence of this is that there are larger numbers of monsters active and attacking at any given time, occasionally delivered via closets or teleporters in order to maintain the pace (relying solely on direct placement in maps built to this kind of scale is a recipe for a lot of dead air during a playthrough). The extra bloodletting is welcome, it made me feel a little more involved in the action even though the vast majority of the combat still lacks any kind of significant Z-axis element at this point. I appreciate the consistently heterogeneous mix of monsters (as opposed to leaning heavily towards zombies, heavily towards imps, etc.), this is a subtle element that's more important to helping play feel fleshed out in OG Doom than it is in Doom II, where monster behavior is more varied/complex. On that point, also glad to see that cacodemons have already joined the party, and in groups to boot--at this point in the game's history I think it's generally for the best that PWADs eschew the original game's relatively slow rate of introducing the full range of actors and items (again, OG Doom's greater simplicity/lesser variety in this regards invites this), although many WADs do run into the issue of overusing Barons as a result.

The more pronounced presence of nukage also helps the environment here feel a little a more complex and nuanced, although as has been said the effect in this case is really more psychological or cosmetic than anything, since strictly speaking most of the slime can be avoided entirely and easily. There are plenty of radsuits to go around should you feel the need to take an acid bath, though. Oh, and more barrels too--marvel at my inability to make effective use of either of these elements in the demo. Anyway, cosmetic or not, small additions such as these help the setting to seem a little more fully realized, important since what we're seeing at this point still heavily favors then-Cannonball's go-to constructions of big square boxes with assorted stuff in their centers.

E1M3 -- The Cleanser - 100% Kills / 100 % Secrets - FDA
I really like that opening shot (you can probably tell from how long I stand there looking at it in the demo), large open spaces, toxin, and mood lighting are always a good combination. I like RoTT music as well (with the possible exception of "Mist Ache", I feel like that one is overused), so that's a nice bonus. The chainsaw-start in this area is interesting as well, one doesn't see many of those, particularly not in such spacious environments. Perhaps it's easier to pull them off in OG Doom because the chainsaw is generally more reliable versus most of the original cast than it is against many of the Doom II additions?

Anyway, I rather like this first area, but it does feel a bit underutilized, conceptually if nothing else--seems like it would've felt natural to return to it for a larger/more complex fight later on, or perhaps to eventually visit a different, similar area with a stronger hostile presence in it. It's certainly more engaging than what we see in the northerly half of the level, which, while not quite literally copy/paste fare, nevertheless tends to feel that way by using and reusing a lot of simplistic motifs--the central spine is comprised of a chain of midsized rooms with pillars in their centers (well, looking at the demo I guess that in one of them it's one of those quasi-realistic computer desks instead), the northern reaches contain more of Cannonball's usual battleboxes, etc. The fight in the red key's box isn't bad, but at this point seeing this same kind of stuff over and over again is making things seem vaguely procedurally-generated, not sure that's a good thing. Texture choices also seem to clash a lot more up here, especially in that central junction room with the neon red central pillar; the simpler, cleaner, look of the southern area (and E1M1 and E1M2 for the most part) tends to work a lot better for the stock resources, I feel.

But hey, back on the upside, there's a secret key. I love secret keys! It's our ticket to a secret tram station. I....love secret tram stations, I guess. Presumably it takes us to the secret level...

E1M9 -- Atomsmasher - 100% Kills / 0% Secrets - FDA
....Which I wouldn't exactly say I "love." Seeing that big pile of goodies waiting for me in the reception room, I thought I might be in for something of a rough ride, but it's not really the case....this is the sort of level that underscores the difficulty in pulling off engaging largescale/horde-based battles in the original Doom, with its much more limited selection of enemies and projectile types. The central area is so spacious that even the large number of enemies that teleport into it don't provide much of a credible threat given all of the running room and their simple linear projectile attacks; clear out the sergeants on the periphery and you should be golden, especially considering that Cannonball really seems to shit health packs at you in this map--I soaked quite a lot of damage in the FDA without having to bat an eyelash as a result. Barons also show up for the first time in this map, and their role in the central fight is symptomatic of that unfortunate temptation that so many WADsters, master and apprentice alike, seem to give in to when making maps for the original game--of using these monsters more for emphasis (e.g. "this is supposed to be a major fight, so I need to break out the Barons") than because they are particularly effective or dangerous in a given situation. Sometimes using Barons for spectacle is fine and dandy--I'm not one of those fellows who'll break out the eye-rolling histrionics as soon as I have to chew through a few of these goatlegged bastards under less than life-threatening circumstances--but generally speaking this monster works better in smaller spaces with other monsters or environmental complications running interference, as in the small side areas.

The highly symmetrical nature of the layout doesn't really bother me in this case, at least, since 90% of the play area is used for just 1-2 fights. The largely copy-pasted crate details in the central area are questionable, to say the least, and I don't really like the way the military green composite comprising the main hall segues directly into the white lab paneling, but the really spacious scale (seems it's becoming more and moreso with each successive map) of most of the level is something I personally find appealing, and I like that blinking light effect in the hallway--seems like people always do this stuff a lot more in Phobos-flavor E1 replacements and in OG Doom PWADs in general, perhaps following id's positive example.

Not as climactic as it seems to want to be, and I'm not sure I really got a strong "secret level" flavor from it, but at least I got to play with a ton of rockets again, quite refreshing after Requiem's dearth of that ammo type last month.

[scifista42]

E1M9 - "Atom Smasher"

The initial build-up part (with a cleverly hidden Soulsphere secret) was pretty much the best thing in the map. The circular tunnel was cool for the sole reason that it was supposed to depict a particle accelerator - otherwise, it was kind of a chore to clear out of all the monsters, placed in repetitive patterns. And the same applied for the rest of the entire map, too. Extremely simplistic layout, and gameplay was nothing more than a basic exercise: Outrun an unorganized monster horde, keep spamming ammo into the monsters, or just run away without a threat. There are even monster blocking lines that keep monsters in their places - instead, cannonball should have accustomized the layout to make the monsters more vicious and capable of threatening the player.

[cannonball]

E1M2 - "Mutagenic Quarantine"
So a hub spoke, yeah the initial layout of this map wasn't great and to be honest the rehashed version I made at the released of concerned wasn't much better. At least there was some frenetic gameplay here though which I wanted to keep in the revised version.

Still not completely satisfied but making the map more non linear, redoing a couple of areas should allow the player more choice and allow monsters to wander around more which will increase their threat .
I agree with memfis on the radsuits and as such place a couple in one location and not put them by every single piece of nukage. That will at least give some kind of tactical scenario.

Hopefully I will get E1M3 done later. I must admit that E1M9 is complete shit.

[scifista42]

cannonball said:

If I mapped it now (E1M1, E1M2)

I personally think that your modern mapping style (d)evolved into generic-ness. There's no longer that much contrast within one map, or texturing / structures / things that stand out. Instead, everything blends into a perfectly unified system of abstract rooms, full of pillars and openings and uniformly scattered-around enemies, and the principle barely ever changes. I liked both Concerned and Draft Excluder, though.

[TheOrganGrinder]

E1M3: The Cleanser

There's definitely a pattern starting to emerge in the level design, here, of maps dominated by large, arena-like main chambers around which smaller (though still comfortably spacious) chambers cluster. Layout and progression feel... 'rational,' I guess, is the best way I can put it; challenges are neatly segregated from one another, allowing the player to dissect the map at their own place. This is a level without a lot of tricks up its sleeve. I felt the large southern chamber was a cool space that didn't see enough action; not a lot happens here to keep the player in the room or pull them back here later in the map.

Oddly enough, the computer map secret was the last one I found, so it pretty much just served to confirm that I'd seen all the level had to offer.

E1M9: Atomsmasher

The big pile of ammunition in the very first room as you're leaving the train station was a big of a red flag for me; "Oh no," I thought, "is this going to be a slaughtermap?" The theme of a single, large area dominating the layout (if not the gameplay) continues here, with the particle accelerator looped around the big central chamber and vestigial areas branching from it along the cardinal directions; like E1M3, this is a map that doesn't hold many surprises. I feel as though the use of deaf monsters in the loop makes it a bit too easy to just creep around one section of the circle at a time, obliterating as you go; a 1:1 mix of deaf to non-deaf monsters might have kept the player on their toes better, although with the raised, barred areas full of imps, even an entirely non-deaf horde chasing around the player around would still be left with static sentries to herd the unfortunate marine into. In combination with the block monster lindefs separating the central chamber from the loop, it's a much easier map to maintain control of than its layout would suggest.

That's not to say I didn't like it, but my early impressions suggested that I was in for some seriously blood-drenched carnage that, at least on HMP, the map is hobbled in its ability to deliver.

[Capellan]

e1m4
The many windows in this map give the sergeants plenty of opportunities to show why they are Doom's most dangerous monster.

I feel like this is a map where the relative narrow bestiary in Doom is badly exposed: even a handful of Doom 2 monsters would I think freshen up the gameplay a lot. As is, it's basically "hold down fire button on chaingun" most of the time, with occasional switches to the shotgun when window camping or the rocket launcher when the map pulls out a bigger monster or the small fry conveniently clump together.

This is the first map where I really noticed the 'flatness' (for which I blame Demon of the Well). It's also one with a couple of odd design decisions. There's a one-use secret in the south western area: not a fan of that. Stranger though is the baron in the exit room. He teleports away for some reason – I guess you are supposed to walk into the room and he 'ports in behind you, pincering with the caco, but there are two flaws with this: first the yellow door can close, trapping him harmlessly outside, and second it's very easy to alert the caco and kill it without the baron waking up – either he should not be deaf or the caco should be placed somewhere that ensures both monsters will see you at the same time.

[Memfis]

I see what people mean when they talk about uniformity of these levels, and that's actually the reason why I used to neglect a lot of cannonball's maps in general. But now I'm playing this and so far really enjoying it. I'm starting to think that this style is very elegant and perfectly suitable for "gameplay oriented" stuff.

e1m4 - We are five maps in and so far I love all music choices, which is pleasant. This map intrigued me from the very beginning: it is always interesting to see some E1-style maps with large outdoor sections since KDitD didn't have anything like that. And I never felt bored here, so mission accomplished. My favorite part was the yellow switch fight. As always I didn't like the turrets that get refilled with hitscanners though. I don't really understand this stuff: you just stand still and keep shooting until the monsters stop appearing, that's just lame. Good thing they couldn't be chaingunners since we're in Doom 1. I also thought the teleporting baron at the end was strange.

[Surreily]

Hello! It's me again! You might remember me from back when we played through Back to Saturn X E2. I had to drop out of that one because of a ridiculous amount of university work (seriously, all four of my courses had their deadlines shifted back, it was that bad). Well, I'm back now to play some more Doom!

As always, I will be playing on Ultra Violence, I will be saving occasionally, I will not be using mouselook, and I am going for 100% kills and secrets.

E1M1: Toxic Touchdown - 100% kills, 100% secrets
A very quick and small introduction to what I'm sure will be a great episode. It certainly looks nice and the music is awesome, but it was a little too easy for my tastes (even for the first map of the first episode).

E1M2: Mutagenic Quarantine - 100% kills, 100% secrets
This map reminds me of the original episode 1 from Doom. It's not totally linear (like far too many maps are these days) and there's a rather expansive secret area (again, most secret areas these days are just tiny rooms). I can't say that I am a fan of shootable wall secrets though. The gameplay consisted of several painfully obvious traps, but was otherwise enjoyable. It was definitely a step up in difficulty, but still easier than the average Doom II map in my opinion.

E1M3: The Cleanser - 100% kills, 100% secrets
I found this map to be a little easier than the previous one, especially since the traps are so painfully obvious here. I hope that the enemies in future maps are placed in more interesting positions instead of just being there in front of me or jumping out from a monster closet. The map's layout is good with a variety of different areas to explore, and if the secret blue key is found, another route opens, allowing the player to choose which way to progress. Thankfully, there were no nasty secrets in this one, and the secret exit was nice and easy to find.

Overall, these first few maps were fun, but they were also incredibly easy. I understand that it's tougher to create variety and challenge without Doom II's increased selection of enemies, but I do think that there could have been a little more going on here. Looking forward to playing some more tomorrow!

[scifista42]

E1M4 - "Withering Gardens"

This map was alright for a supposedly open (almost "sandbox") layout. Anyway, it was completely flat, and numerous texture misalignments didn't give me a good impression either; as well as a certain 1-time accessible secret, which I didn't catch. Otherwise, the map generally looked and played OK.

[mouldy]

E1M3 - "The Cleanser”
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qr4mm779gc6ec31/concern-e1m3-mouldy.lmp

Found a lucky secret chaingun early on, that definitely made my life easier. Where the last map felt a bit overcrowded given the tools provided, this one allowed faster and more reckless gameplay, which is cool. In fact I gunned through it at such a pace I can hardly remember much of it, but it was fun. Also enjoying actually finding the secrets, which I'm not normally that great at, including the secret exit.

E1M9 - "Atom Smasher"
http://www.mediafire.com/download/skp16850g2ehvp0/concern-e1m9-mouldy.lmp

Quite a daunting start being given a room full of weaponry, but the map itself isn't so tough. The highlight is rocketing the caco swarm, always a joy. The final wave of monsters were handicapped when I ran out of the central room and found they were blocked from leaving that room, so I could pulverise them through the doorway in absolute safety. I imagine there must be a reason for that, I can't think what it is though. Anyway, a fun bit of killing.

[Sui Generis]

I play with PrBoom+ continuously on UV, saving games freely. As I'm not a particularly great Doom player, I may consider dropping down a skill level when the difficulty picks up. I'll see how I get on with UV for the time being though.

E1M1 - "Toxic Touchdown"
Quick little opener. Simple, flat, inoffensive, short and appropriate for a first map. I appreciate that two secrets have been added to such a small level and I found the music entertaining and appropriately paced for the slot. I don't mind that the imps on the ledge cannot chase, as I generally seek to kill everything anyway. It is Doom after all!

E1M2 - "Mutagenic Quarantine"
A capacious hub with surrounding areas. I appreciate the release of plenty of monsters, though there's plenty of cover to shelter from hitscans in the first two ambushes and plenty of space is offered for the cacos. It's quite refreshing to see an E1-ish (I wouldn't call it exactly E1 style) level set using non-E1 monsters and big ambushes. I found the soul/blursphere secret and got 4/5 in total. I quite like the computer station homage secret. So far the defining quality of these levels is how big and large scale the areas are, yet the actual progression is very simple.

E1M3 - "The Cleanser”
A big empty initial slime yard leads to some more rooms and corridor based action. I appreciated the red key fight, and it's generally satisfying to pop the sergeants and imps with the shotgun whilst dodging their counterattacks. There are fewer situations where you're endangered from multiple angles so it feels far less pressured than M2. The secret blue key was reasonably easily located - I knew once I found the non-secret exit I would need to return to the nukage for secrets, it was purely a matter of procuring a rad suit for the least rad damage. I don't mind, having some simple secrets though as it's nice to have a mix of easier and harder secrets.). I possibly enjoyed this a tiny bit more than M2, as the corridors delivered a more continual drip-feed of monsters.

Oh and also for the maps so far, I think some praise is in order for the ...barrel placement. Really, it's such a rewarding thing to lure several monsters near to them and then turn them inside-out from a well-timed explosion. These things are part of what make E1 sets more satisfying and fun.

E1M9 - "Atom Smasher"
First of all I have to say that I particularly like the direct continuation of E1M3 at the start of this map. The intra-site tram car is completely in keeping with ConCERNed's overall theme of a high-tech facility and this really helps develop the character of the individual maps. It reminds me of the volcano hideout in You only live twice, or Black Mesa. Unfortunately this theme is a double-edged sword because it constrains the layout to basically be ring-shaped and really the layout of this map is it's weakness. Running round the ring, shooting the imps on the ledges was repetitive.

The volume encircled by the collider ring is probably the most entertaining. Once again it's a big arena with lots of things to kill. The map is not immensely structured or vastly impressive, architecturally, but it isn't bad looking either. Really the quantity of monsters adds to the fun factor and the map has a brisk, kinetic feel to it. I have to agree with Capellan about the ambushes in the side-areas being easily avoided though. Overall this is good fun. True to the author's intention for this level to be a recharge level, I exited with 200/200 health/armour.

I'll come back with thoughts on E1M4 later.

[cannonball]

E1M3 - "The Cleanser”
Unlike the last map, I don't feel a particular dislike to the general layout, though it still feels rather boxy in a room separated by door type of way. The gameplay is a little cramped in the original which is the reason for the drop in monster count at least.

This time the second half of the map wasn't changed much, apart from re-texturing to a consistent theme, expansion of the outside area and the removal of one of the connecting wings (only one switch to get the yellow key now. Also the tram stays :)

The first half was revamped to increase the scale and give a sense of place of a mukage processing facility with nukage spilling into the area along with some moving machinery. One thing I kept was the division between the floors with nukage being dominant on the bottom floor and water on the surface level.
The blue key secret has been altered given the open environment f that area but the same principle applies to grabbing in.


Aside from this, I will only do this for episode one, I will go back to whining about the other maps only :P
I do understand the element of generic feel, something I have to work on to get a balance between the two contrasting things I have done. A consistent texture theme for a map would probably be a start.

[Salt-Man Z]

Cannonball, are you going to make your revamped E1 available for download at some point? That E1M3 looks sooo cool.

[Magnusblitz]

E1M4: Withering Gardens
100% kills, 4/4 secrets

I agree with Memfis that it's nice to see an outdoor-themed E1-styled map, help sets it apart but still feels like it would fit in on Phobos. Yeah, it's a bit flat, but that didn't bug me - it's just about the perfect length to not really worry about, and the indoor/outdoor split helps make up for the lack of height variation, I feel. All the windows and enemies left me relatively low on health for most of the map, despite having the mega-armor. And the teleporting baron worked perfectly on me - all level long I had been reflexively backtracking from the ambushes, so the baron got a nice big chunk out of me when I ran away at the end, heh.

[Breezeep]

cannonball said:

E1M3 - "The Cleanser”
Unlike the last map, I don't feel a particular dislike to the general layout, though it still feels rather boxy in a room separated by door type of way. The gameplay is a little cramped in the original which is the reason for the drop in monster count at least.

[video]

I didn't really know you were planning to remake your entire megawad, Cannonball. I'd like to play a revamped version of it though. Looks promising.

[dobu gabu maru]

Count me in with the group of people that wants the "revamped" ConCERNed maps to be released—they look neat!

E1M3: I really like the concept of this opener, though running from all the imps is probably the most viable option. This is a decent level with some cute traps, though I still think I prefer E1M2 to it. I like the use of darkened doors and the moving TEK pillars near the end.

E1M9: I don’t have much to say regarding the secret map—I think it’s a novel premise but the gameplay is extremely grindy. Thankfully Powell is lenient on handing out the rockets so it’s not that hard to chew through barons, but it’s nevertheless a map that plays very dull unless you purposely try to make some of the encounters interesting (the trapped keycards do add a little bit of spice thankfully).

Demon of the Well said:

Alright alright, never played either of these before.

It always surprises me when we run into something you haven't played... sometimes I just assume you (like bdl) are a machine that's been programmed to consume all things Doom.

[Gordon]

E1M3: The Cleanser

The opening area is neat, and the rest of the level is decent. The difficulty is rising a little bit, but nothing too challenging yet. The gameplay of the maps is still good, however, and the optional, secret key here reminded me of a stock Doom map.

[Salt-Man Z]

E1M4: Withering Gardens
100% again. For all the action, it was a pretty easy map. The only time I took any real damage was from the surprise baron-teleport at the end. (I knew what was going to happen, but the direction I chose to backpedal in was right where the baron showed up.) Some fun secrets (though that one-time switch is a no-no) and nice interconnectivity between rooms. I loved all the windows, as my go-to playstyle is to try picking off everything in sight. A little too obviously flat, but still a lot of fun.

[KillingMachine]

E1M3 - The Cleanser
While trying to plot out a path, the opening ambush in the sea of nukage kind of caught me off guard. Nice little battle in the red key room. I felt less starved for health than the previous level and generally had an easier time making my way through this one.

Despite lucking into finding the automap as my first secret, I still couldn't manage to acquire the elusive blue key even after quite a bit of backtracking.

E1M4 - Withering Gardens
Was a bit leery of being torn apart again by shotgun attacks upon entering this level, but there weren't as many sargeants lurking around as I feared.

Managed to blow myself up while duking it out during the surprise attack at the blue key. Lesson learned, I expected such an attack again at the yellow key, so quickly dashed through the area and mopped up that pack of monsters after circling back around. Managed to find half of the secrets before exiting the level.

[SandGator]

E1M4 -- Withering Gardens

I thought this map was okay, nice and hectic beginning after playing the secret level. Mopping up the rest was pretty straightforward, and there was enough space everywhere that I don't think I ever stopped sprinting. Appreciated the Baron teleporting behind me in the exit door, that was devious. This map didn't blow me away, but I still thought it was fun.

I got the computer map secret second to last, so I could see the one with the shootable switch which was driving me nuts trying to figure out how to open it. I finished the level with around 65% health, which was cool -- when playing continuous it heightens the tension to have just enough health pickups in a level that you go to the next level a little beat up.

I'm basically shotgunning everything, and there are so many Sergeants in these maps that I'm racking up tons of ammo without ever going much below 70 shells. Those final levels are in for some major hurting.

[cannonball]

I thought I would just post my thoughts as editing E1M9 may take some time

E1M9 - "Atom Smasher"
I must admit I don't quite know why I did some of the things I did in here, the monster block lines and doors segregate areas and pretty much cause this map to be a casual walk in the park, the final ambush can be avoided by running out of the central room and the wings where the keys are do not offer enough resistance.
So yeah, this map I admit sucks major donkey balls.

E1M4 - "Withering Gardens"
Yeah this map needs more height variation, and perhaps a few more monsters scattered around (especially perhaps lost souls). The progression is also questionable too in parts given there are two switches required to access the yellow key. The monsters in the exit room I think was some "cool" way to try and get a baron to rip your spine out, nowadays it's just dumb I guess.

[TheOrganGrinder]

E1M4: Withering Gardens

Having the level take place mostly out of doors provided a nice change of pace, though it did highlight one of the weaknesses of the classic Doom bestiary: without the Doom 2 additions, there aren't really any (non-boss) monsters that provide a high enough volume of fire to make large, outdoor areas truly too dangerous to stand around in, so instead here we get picked apart at extreme ranges by hard-to-spot zombie men and shotgun guys. The doors with dimmed lights are, on the one hand, an effective architectural detail that makes the place feel larger and less artificially limited than it really is, but on the other hand, they feel like a concession to (or admission of) predictability in design - of course the symmetrical rooms should have doors where, but there's nothing to actually put behind them in terms of level flow or gameplay opportunities. The dimmed lights communicate effectively "this door goes nowhere."

The exit room trap makes me wonder just how often information like kill numbers gets incorporated into encounter planning by level designers. I'd been pretty thorough about clearing the map out so by the time I got to the exit door I was at 149/151 kills. My thoughts were, roughly, "there are no more than two monsters on the other side of this door (maybe one or none, if I missed kills elsewhere) so they're going to be big ones." So naturally I pulled out my rocket launcher before I opened the door, stuck my head around the doorframe carefully... and immediately had a Baron of Hell breathing down my neck at far too close a range to unload a rocket into his face. Certainly I've seen variety in the traps in this WAD so far - anticipation of different player reactions to a trap or the expectation of a trap, and how that can be used to catch the player out. Good stuff.

[Capellan]

cannonball said:
try and get a baron to rip your spine out, nowadays it's just dumb I guess.

The concept is fine. It's just a bit easy to break it and when you do, it comes across as really weird. 'Thank you for teleporting away and letting me to exit in peace, Mr Baron'. :)


e1m5
My favourite part of this level was the fight for the blue key. Ironic, given that the actual blue door area seems like such a pointless room: it's basically just one with a switch in it. Could have just had a switch where the blue key was and made that room an optional extra with some nice power-up in it.

There are also some monster closet + teleporter ambushes, which do a good job of sprinkling enemies around the level and forcing the player to have to work a bit to find a commanding position from which to fight. It's still pretty doable in most cases, but at least it's not as simple as backing up a little and just annihilating everything.

I also appreciate cannonball's willingness to be generous with rockets, as they make the monster slayin' go a lot faster, especially when the cacos and barons make an appearance.

Little bit underwhelmed by the return of the "central room surrounded by a corridor with extra zones branching off it" motif from e1m9, though if I'd not found the secret level I doubt I would have had a problem with it.

This was a solid level, but there is a niggling worry in the back of my mind about whether cannonball can keep finding new and varied ways to challenge the player with Doom's narrow monster set, or if an element of 'sameness' is going to creep in after a while.

[mouldy]

E1M4 - "Withering Gardens"
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ux31bxbey1zho76/concern-e1m4-mouldy.lmp

That start is a bastard. It took me a few deaths to figure out where to go and what to do to avoid death by crossfire, and from there I was playing like an old lady until I could finally claw my health back. The re-appearing shotgun snipers are very naughty. I am quite thankful that all the subsequent traps were fairly easy to escape from, but that opening certainly represents a step up in difficulty. Have to see how much longer I can go without saving..

[Breezeep]

E1M5 - "Administration" Kills: 100% Secrets: 0/4 Deaths: 1
A generic but decent map with the usual gameplay stuffs Cannonball throws in: waves and waves of monsters. The layout of the map was just simplistic, and It could have been a bit more complex.
The start of the map made me wonder if this level was set on some sort of tower, but It didn't make sense to me. I think a teleporter exit in E1M4 would be a better visual idea of how the player was going to get to the next level, but that's just my thoughts.