HAK3180 Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) is a work-in-progress limit-removing 32-map "traditional" megawad with 25 maps completed, though only 21 in a close to final state . Your thoughts on any map are welcome. DOWNLOAD HERE FEATURES/GOALS single player only all maps intended for pistol start only, though only enforced twice mostly medium length maps (current UV monster count average is 168) engaging gameplay with moderately high accessibility (especially if you are willing to play on lower difficulty settings) a sense of progress: many maps will feature a lot of space to traverse and/or a noticeable density of objectives (switch action, etc.) mild-medium gimmickry employed in some maps, including some light puzzle elements occasional use of realistic places interesting secrets a classic, yet fresh visual experience Par times are aggressive times for a max run on Ultra-Violence INFO Created with: (Ultimate) Doom Builder (2/X), Slade, Oblige, Whacked, Bitmap Font Writer, Paint.net, and a very archaic sheet music program/midi maker Tested: Crispy Doom 5.10.1, DSDA Doom 0.19.7 (-cl2), Doom Retro 4.1, PrBoom+ 2.5.1.5 (-cl9), ZDoom 2.8.1, Eternity 4.00, GZDoom 4.6.0 ("default" compatibility settings). Not tested with any mods IWAD: Doom 2 Maps: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, __ 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, __ 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 __ __ __ __ __ Multiplayer: none Difficulty levels: thoroughly implemented. The vision is to have Hurt Me Plenty and Ultra-Violence feel the same without being the same. Subtle, not significant monster changes, and more focus on beefing the supplies for medium. Hey, Not Too Rough does offer significant encounter changes as well as extra supplies. Compatibility options: Freelook is allowed. Crouch and jump are disabled by default via mapinfo. Infinite height has been primarily tested on, but there is no recommendation either way. Credits: Most textures are from iwads or are slight modifications thereof. Some additional textures are taken from various sources. See the text file. Thanks to leodoom85, xvertigox, Magicana, obake, Austinado, Zolgia108, Steve D, LVENdead, Arbys550, and Clippy for prerelease testing. Bugs: slime trails are fairly common in software rendering. Most, if not all maps are all easily broken with jump or with vertical rocket jumping. CHANGE LOG Spoiler 24 August 2022 (Version 14.0.1) Map 14 fully redone added third key to Map 12 for ease of progression 15 July 2022 (Version 13.0) Map 12 released Heavy modifications to Maps 13 and 23 23 May 2022 (Version 12.1): Map 22 released in full 21 November 2021 (Version 12.0) Maps 05 and 17 released Map 22 moved to Map 23 New Map 22 crude alpha released DSDA Doom added as a fully tested source port 31 July 2021 (Version 11.1) Minor visual changes to Map 03 and Map 06 quality of life improvements to Maps 11, 16, and 24 21 July 2021 (Version 11.0) Map 16 released Map 01 fully redone Minor changes to Map 24 08 June 2021 (Version 10.0) Maps 08 and 24 released Minor changes to other maps Made Map 26 blue key fight much harder and yellow key easier to get 10 October 2020 (Version 9.0) Maps 04 and 27 released minimal changes to other maps 16 December 2019 (Version 8.1.2) Maps 11 and 26 released minimal-moderate changes to other maps included Eternity Engine as a tested source port added some textures not done by myself, including new skies 21 May 2019 (Version 7.1.0) Map 21 released minimal changes to other maps included ZDoom as an officially tested source port 25 April 2019 (Version 6.2.0): fixed a bug that made Map 07 impossible on ZDoom based ports 20 March 2019 (Version 6.1.0) Maps 07 and 25 released Par times modified to reflect 100% kills speedrun Moderate changes to Maps 01 and 22 Minor changes to other maps 16 February 2019: added Doom Retro as a tested source port 23 January 2019 (Version 5.3.0) Map 06 released significant changes to Maps 01, 13, 14, and 18. Minor changes to other Maps 02, 03, 10, 15, 19, and 22. 15 November 2018 (Version 4.1.2): minor changes; moderate changes to Map 01 24 September 2018 (Version 4.0.1): minor changes to Maps 03 and 10 22 September 2018 (Version 4.0) Maps 03 & 10 released modifications of varying degrees to all other maps Map 18 renamed Map 20 progress removed (to prevent spoilers) Doom Retro removed as an officially tested source port 23 June 2018: added Doom Retro as a tested source port 17 April 2018 (Version 3.4.2) All maps rebalanced for pistol start Other significant changes to Maps 1, 2, 13, and 14 Other minor changes to Maps 15, 19, and 22 Work on Map 20 begun 05 February 2018 (Version 3.2.1) Maps 19 & 22 released Minor changes to previous maps 11 December 2017 (Crossbearer 1.3.0) Name changed to "Crossbearer" Maps 14 & 15 released Custom opening and intermission screens added Minor changes to previous maps 31 October 2017 Maps 2 & 18 released Minor changes to Maps 1 & 13 22 September 2017 (Original release of Cross.wad) Maps 1 & 13 released Text of original post Spoiler I am new to mapping, but I already have aspirations of creating a megawad – just an old school Doom 2 style. I have created two maps for which I’m looking for feedback. I am interested in your thoughts on aesthetic level design, but I anticipate I will naturally get better at it as I progress in mapmaking. Obviously I am interested in any errors/mistakes, but I believe I’ve worked all of that out. I am more interested in your thoughts on level design as far as playability. Is the space/progression interesting and fun? Are ammo supplies, monsters, and other goodies placed well? I tested in GZDoom, but no freelook or jumping or crouching or anything. Note well: I made Map 01 and Map 13. When you finish 1, just idclev13. When you do that, you can either play Map 13 from a pistol start or you can gather all the goodies on the left. Those are roughly what I anticipate you would accumulate in maps 1-12. They are not intended to appear in the “actual” Map 13. Difficulty levels are different for Map 01, but not for Map 13. Overall I intend for the maps to be harder than Doom 2, maybe somewhere between TNT and Plutonia, but probably with a sharper progression in difficulty throughout the maps. SOME MAP DETAILS Spoiler Map 01: Incipit A pretty simple opener, the goal is to present Doomguy with a kind of "how far down does the rabbit hole go?" question. It's the point of no return in the story, time to leave the comforts of home and begin an unknown adventure. This is the second version of Map 01, the first map in the wad to be completely redone. It now features a more noticeable realism to create that sense of journeying into another world. The map also introduces some features of Crossbearer that will be somewhat prominent: involved secrets and very mild puzzle elements. Map 02: Project Subterrane Project is the operative word in this case. There are parts of this map that are basically tech base, but, being a work in progress, most of it is just unfinished underground. Being the third map I made, it's inconsitently detailed and a little odd in progression. Map 03: Sordid Methods This is basically the oldest map I made that I still like. It has a little bit of a puzzle feel since the main objective is right in front of you. This was my first significant attempt at a map with a decent rate of tight, confined spaces. It's also pretty shotgun heavy, but it's not that long. Map 04: Crux of the Matter Nothing too extravagant here. I wanted a somewhat quickly moving map, so you get all three keys but not a very long map. This level is really not that special overall, but it has some distinct moments and hopefully enjoyable gameplay. Map 05: Somnia Amara This has been probably my least favorite map at the time of finishing/release, but I'm giving it time to grow on me. Within the megawad, it does what I want it to do as a short map and temporary departure from the main campaign, but it's like half the time I think it's visually cool, the other half stupid. Half the time I like the action a lot, but the other half it feels amateurish. Map 06: Dormant Vagary This is now my 10th most recent map, but it might still be top 2 or 3 in quality. It experiments with some oddities/gameplay gimmicks. I rather like how it's turned out, but I'd definitely love your thoughts on some of the gimmicky moments. Map 07: Exigency I had no intention of being so unoriginal with this map, but I had an idea and decided to go for it. Visually, it's got a clean, somewhat polished look - very techy. It packs a punch - for now please attempt it on Hurt Me Plenty or lower, but it's the shortest map yet besides the opener. Map 08: Anger and Apathy This is a little bit of a power trip. It has a lot of meaty monsters, but you're not starved for firepower. There are several moments of reused space and looping or minor backtracking between inside and outside, so the geometry itself would probably suggest a map slightly shorter than what it is. There's a little secrets gimmick in play. Each secret allows you to skip a locked door, and you can even complete the map without picking up a key. Map 10: Hollow Venture This was originally designed as a vanilla hellish map for a community project. That project may one day see the light of day, but this map has more detail and has been fully reskinned for this project, which I found to be a very interesting process. The lava turned to slime, the complex turned into more of a base, and the outdoor areas turned to more of a valley/quarry. All of this happened with minimal change to geometry. Map 11: Betrayer of the Code Originally I wanted to do a sprawling tech base in the vein of Knee Deep in the Dead, but with somewhat more "epic" proportions. As the map developed, it ended up slightly shorter than I had thought and less like E1. So while you definitely make progression choices, it doesn't have tons of optional areas or numerous conversion points of multiple paths. One thing it does have is lots of switch action, almost like a very light puzzle. I hope you feel like you accomplished something. Note: there is a spot where you could appear to break the map, but it requires great precision and speed and would very unlikely happen unless specifically attempted. There is a failsafe in place, which is even more difficult to stumble upon, but I did not want to leave any known softlock possibilities. Map 12: Cathartic Convocation This is a smaller and shorter map that is nevertheless densely populated. Though smaller, the map is quite open, a bite-sized sandbox. Hitscanners abound, so part of the process is the balance between aggressive and conservative play. Ammo management is a contributing factor, most notably that you must choose one powerful weapon early, the other only becoming available later on. Map 13: Inchoate Foreglow The first map I ever made has undergone some heavy upgrading. What I realized about two years into mapping is that my early maps tended to have odd fusions of Doom 1 influence and Doom 2 influence. It was often the worst of both worlds. Inchoate Foreglow has been improved structurally to make progression much more intuitive while still encouraging exploration and making optional areas meaningful. One area has been removed entirely, and the combat has been tightened up. Finally, visuals have leveled up, even though the map is still unmistakably the same one from 2017. The renaming of this map is a double meaning. The map both takes place early in the morning and occurs at the beginning of Doomguy's latest, but hardly developed plan within the story of Crossbearer. Map 14: A Glimmer of Hope My very early maps were not very good for different reasons. My fifth map was large and wide open, and while it looked kind of okay, I did not have the mapping wisdom to make a fun map in that space. The more I thought about it, the more I realized most of the space was, in fact, the issue; it was not conducive to exciting gameplay. So this map got a complete redo. Still, I liked the concept, so it is still a keyless map almost entirely outdoors with a lot of space. I also maintained the general visual theme and largely straightforward progression. I made the secrets much more interesting and the combat much more thrilling. As a linear map, much of the fighting is somewhat choreographed, but it's still not a series of setpieces. Much of it I would call "guided incidental combat." For a bit of trivia, version 2 ended up very close in length and in monster count to the original. Map 15: Obscure Alliance This was probably my first map that wasn't a disaster visually, so it has undergone very little upgrading in that department. Still, it's not great in that regard or really any, though it does have a pretty solid progression. The title refers to a minor detail that you probably won't even notice. Map 16: Vicissitude This is another map of numerous small/preliminary objectives, even featuring the (pseudo) usage of six keys. This is by far the least densely populated map I have made, but that doesn't mean it's easy. It's a bit of a hub map and a bit of a sandbox, nonlinear in function but without many distinctly different areas. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, and I rather enjoyed figuring out some of the vanilla trickery to get this thing to do what I wanted. Map 17: HR Operation Complex I like Map 11 a lot, but it ended up morphing into something that was not really the initial design. This map is kinda the second attempt at that original vision, which is a very Doom 1-feeling, mazelike, thoroughly unguided sprawling base adventure. There's really only one setpiece at all, and almost never only one path to take. I took inspiration from the layout of E3M3 Pandemonium. This map also boasts the second most secrets and easily the most per square foot. And check out not one, but two different vanilla faux floor over floor setups. Map 18: Decarcerate This is another very early map that really hasn't been modified much at all. I like the basic idea, albeit a bit trite, and because this one lacks any fine detailing or major shenanigans, it may not be all that difficult to overhaul it if I so choose. Map 19: Crucial Voyage At this particular stage, I'd say this was the last map I made before taking a major leap in mapping quality. The main inspiration for this map was Map 13 Downtown. I wanted the critical path to be rather short by comparison, but much more difficult, as it would forfeit almost all the goodies. This map has some rather noticeable lighting, since the "default" sector is very dark, unless illuminated by a light source, but the gameplay is quite inconsistent. Map 21: Valley of Iniquity This map's goal was to do a certain style, specifically, the style in which you can get the keys in any order, the exit requires all three, and the map is very interconnected. I also decided to experiment with Oblige for this map because I recalled its ability to produce decently interconnected spaces. So I put in a little information and out came the basic layout that ended up being this map. It should be said, however, that absolutely nothing came from Oblige except the general geometric shape and with it some of the floor and ceiling heights. I immediately deleted all things, tags, light levels, etc. and created my own progression. I doubt this map would be recognizable as an Oblige modification, but it was an interesting process, so I mention it without shame. Within the mapset, it's the first true hell level, so I wanted a higher monster density with a lot of them having roaming potential. Map 22: Chaosweaver I started this map shortly after a playthrough of Plutonia gave me a renewed appreciation for Caged and The Twilight: fast paced action without much room to maneuver. Visually, this is (will be) very different from those, and it is also my first map to feature the "Containment Area Effect," (or Downtown) if you know what I mean. Note: What is now Map 23 was formerly in this slot. Map 23: The High Road This is a very simple map conceptually and very straightforward. As such, much of the combat fell flat as this map originally stood, so the most significant upgrades to this map involve the encounters, but I did cut out about five minutes of lifeless front matter; the map was also way too long. Now it has much clearer identity: spatial east to west progress impeded by various fights, often involving strategic ammo placement to push the player forward. Note: this was formerly Map 22. Map 24: Wicked Devices The first of the three obvious weapon restriction maps, this one is probably the closest this wad will come to "true" slaughter; the enemy count does not reflect the level time/length. It consists of a few distinct fights with one choice of order that changes things significantly. Because of that, this became a very technical Doom map in terms of behind the scenes editing. There's quite a bit of poorman's (vanilla) "scripting" to set up the fights for players coming from different directions. For that reason, I'm very curious about balance. The goal for this map was to be on the slaughter spectrum with some distinct character; innovation was much more important than challenge. Map 25: Seat of the Scornful Interconnection was the goal here. The map is certainly not a sandbox, but I wanted to create a space with seamless flow, lots of sight lines, and a sense of really being in one space. This map feature just two weapons for the vast majority of the combat. It can get a touch grindy, admittedly, but it's a short map and does have one pretty intense fight. Map 26: Slain on Your Heights This map was intended to somewhat resemble a city layout. You find yourself in a large area with a number of accessible and/or visible buildings. It's not exactly a sandbox, but there's definitely a feeling of freedom. The gameplay basically comes down to one question: is it prudent to use rockets? The fact that the answer is frequently "yes" will hopefully provide a fun, fast-paced experience. There is a puzzle for a secret that seems harder than I had anticipated, so I'd certainly like your thoughts on that. As of now, it's still in its original form. Map 27: Chthonian Rampart This map was very loosely inspired by TNT Map 15 Dead Zone. It is a sandbox with almost no prescribed route at all. As such, its difficulty and fun factor may vary greatly depending on how you take it. Every route is doable, but some may be easier and some may be more entertaining. The ammo is there, but you simply cannot kill everything as soon as you see it. Also of note: I find this map very fun to speedrun. I haven’t probed it too much, but I’ve done it in 1:11. Yes, I started working on this megawad the same time I started mapping. I am in no hurry to finish it, and I know some maps need significant work or to be replaced entirely. But at this point I can honestly look back ten maps and not be able to say, "Yep, that's trash compared to what I'm releasing today." DOWNLOAD HERE Edited July 27, 2023 by HAK3180 : Version 14.0.1 56 Share this post Link to post
bioshockfan90 Posted September 22, 2017 You might want to end up leveling your expectations on a megawad- speaking as a mapper, I often have trouble even fathoming the idea of creating a small mapset, but hey- different people work at different speeds! screenshots look very classic-y, so I'm assuming that fits your goal, I'll play both these maps when I get home and drop some feedback on you welcome to wadmaking! 1 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted September 22, 2017 I commend your ambitions regarding creating a megawad; when I returned to mapping about a year ago, that's where I started. After several months, I have about 15-20 maps in various stages of development, but none finished yet. I came to the conclusion to start with single levels and small mapsets (as has been suggested by numerous people here). The megawad isn't abandoned, just on the back burner. That being said, I agree with bioshockfan that the levels do have the Doom 2 IWAD feel. In fact, I find the screenshot of MAP01 to have the same type of flavor as the outdoor secret area of the original Doom 2 Map01. 0 Share this post Link to post
Endless Posted September 22, 2017 I myself, dont know almost nothing about Map Making, but I do now at least some basic ''starter'' things. Making anything you like can be really damn good for yourself, specially in Doom where the options are limitless, so, one thing I can tell you: Do not push yourself to much and have lots of patience! A megawads is something fantastic to create, wish you lots of luck in your mapmaking path! 1 Share this post Link to post
Benjogami Posted September 23, 2017 Below are a couple FDAs recorded in PrBoom+ complevel 2. Though you said you tested in GZDoom, I rolled the dice and tried PrBoom+. It was mostly okay: there are HOMs in the areas with sky, and the lift with the plasma rifle in MAP13 seems to be 0-tagged, but amusingly it still works. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lgrdt2s0kq5dl17/CROSS01_fda.lmp?dl=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0m0vdz2ksohzfl/CROSS13_fda.lmp?dl=1 Pretty good stuff for a new mapper. My biggest complaint is the pistol-heavy MAP01. The pistol is just not much fun to use on anything more than a handful of former humans and a couple imps, in my opinion. I looked pretty hard for secrets, but only found the berserk (too late to use it, sadly). I'd be nice if the berserk secret was more obvious (perhaps if the lift was triggered from the other side of the room, or if it lowered when used, for example), and/or a just barely hidden shotgun somewhere early or midway through (even just 8 shells would be fun). Aesthetically, lighting could use some attention: LITE texture was used a lot in MAP13, but usually didn't cast any light, for example. Keep it up! 1 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted September 23, 2017 9 hours ago, Benjogami said: Below are a couple FDAs recorded in PrBoom+ complevel 2. Though you said you tested in GZDoom, I rolled the dice and tried PrBoom+. It was mostly okay: there are HOMs in the areas with sky, and the lift with the plasma rifle in MAP13 seems to be 0-tagged, but amusingly it still works. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lgrdt2s0kq5dl17/CROSS01_fda.lmp?dl=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0m0vdz2ksohzfl/CROSS13_fda.lmp?dl=1 Pretty good stuff for a new mapper. My biggest complaint is the pistol-heavy MAP01. The pistol is just not much fun to use on anything more than a handful of former humans and a couple imps, in my opinion. I looked pretty hard for secrets, but only found the berserk (too late to use it, sadly). I'd be nice if the berserk secret was more obvious (perhaps if the lift was triggered from the other side of the room, or if it lowered when used, for example), and/or a just barely hidden shotgun somewhere early or midway through (even just 8 shells would be fun). Aesthetically, lighting could use some attention: LITE texture was used a lot in MAP13, but usually didn't cast any light, for example. Keep it up! I really appreciate your comments. I was torn on Map01 because I really did not want to give up the shotgun until Map02. There's also a secret chainsaw. I wonder if you used the map at all. It's a fairly significant help with the other two secrets. I know some people like to ignore the automap... I think what I will do is find a way to make the berserk lift taller, so that it's more audible when it triggers. And I might drop down an enemy or two on the ledge, who are a bit harder to punch. I will take a look at the lighting. It seems the original Dooms are rather inconsistent. Sometimes rooms or parts of rooms are illuminated by nothing. Some lights don't seem to make the space any brighter, etc. Lastly, I have watched and read an obscene number of tutorials and videos to get started with mapping, but I have hardly dabbled in other builders and ports. I am hardly a gamer and certainly not a computer person at all. I don't know how to open an lmp file. Do I need PrBoom? And on that note, is it common for maps to be compatible across source ports, or is it more like "Try a different one at your own risk"? 0 Share this post Link to post
Misty Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, HAK3180 said: Lastly, I have watched and read an obscene number of tutorials and videos to get started with mapping, but I have hardly dabbled in other builders and ports. I am hardly a gamer and certainly not a computer person at all. I don't know how to open an lmp file. Do I need PrBoom? And on that note, is it common for maps to be compatible across source ports, or is it more like "Try a different one at your own risk"? Yes, if you want watch prboom+ related demos. It's always handy to have few doom ports for testing purposes and see differences and errors. Those ports doesn't require much, just folder and iwads. And it's easy to watch those demos - you just grab your wad, that demo and put it over prboom+ and it will open for you. Yes. It's common that wads have cross compatibility with various source ports. For example boom compatible wads will be playable with prboom+ and other advanced ports like gzdoom or eternity. Vanilla wads can be playable on dosbox or chocolate doom with some exceptions and other advanced program which runs Doom. Edited September 23, 2017 by Myst.Haruko : More explanation, I guess. 1 Share this post Link to post
spaztacus Posted September 23, 2017 Not too bad overall for a first timer. Couple of thoughts: 1) I wouldn't too much about the lighting if you don't want it. It's a advance technique to worry about every single angle for lights. I did enjoy the outside light shadows in Map01. 2)I would suggest you break up your LITE3 sections. Make them small sub-sectors with smaller ceilings/floors so they don't take up the whole wall section. You could also throw so vertices next too them to add some extra texture on both sides to make a smoother transition between wall textures and lights. 3)I agree with Benjogami about the only pistol level. Even just throwing a shotgun zombie or two would help. It'd give a little ammo and some variety. 4)Map13 design was a little weird for me. I enjoyed the wooden box room, but was sad it didn't lead anywhere. I didn't see the point of the drop down area with the two Hell Knights other than a trap. Maybe throwing a switch down there to open something up like the teleport in marble room? I also was able to find the blue and red keys before even needing them or even before I got the yellow key. Just think about level flow and guiding the player to the keys in order. 5)I loved and hated that damn Archville on the roof top to the red key. Just evil!!! Took me two deaths to figure out where the hell he was lol. Also liked the crusher trap for the red key. (Crushers don't get used enough IMO) Overall, good job. Keep working and trying things. Mix up some textures, give your lights and details some smaller sectors so they don't have to take up some of your big walls. I personally don't worry about multiple ports unless you are trying fancy features. For a basic Doom wad, just find the one you enjoy and let people know what you used. If you want to make a "high" quality Megawad (which I would suggest after you get more time under your belt), then you can worry about all of that. As a beginner, your focus should be on making maps and getting more comfortable. You don't need to aim for a Cacoaward right out of the gate lol. 0 Share this post Link to post
R1ck Posted September 23, 2017 I seconded @spaztacus' statement. you might go places if you polish your mapping skill :D 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) I thought I edited this, but I actually double posted. Mods, please delete. Edited September 23, 2017 by HAK3180 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, spaztacus said: Not too bad overall for a first timer. Couple of thoughts: 1) I wouldn't too much about the lighting if you don't want it. It's a advance technique to worry about every single angle for lights. I did enjoy the outside light shadows in Map01. 2)I would suggest you break up your LITE3 sections. Make them small sub-sectors with smaller ceilings/floors so they don't take up the whole wall section. You could also throw so vertices next too them to add some extra texture on both sides to make a smoother transition between wall textures and lights. 3)I agree with Benjogami about the only pistol level. Even just throwing a shotgun zombie or two would help. It'd give a little ammo and some variety. 4)Map13 design was a little weird for me. I enjoyed the wooden box room, but was sad it didn't lead anywhere. I didn't see the point of the drop down area with the two Hell Knights other than a trap. Maybe throwing a switch down there to open something up like the teleport in marble room? I also was able to find the blue and red keys before even needing them or even before I got the yellow key. Just think about level flow and guiding the player to the keys in order. Thanks so much for taking the time. Point 1 about the lighting: Full disclosure: These are truly my first ever attempts at maps, not just my first public releases. And I made Map1 after Map13, so yes, I was definitely still progressing pretty significantly during Map13. If I were making it again (and I probably will make some changes anyway), I would do some of the visual details a little bit differently. Heck, there are spots in Map13 where I use a sector for light because I didn't even know just to make a line def within a line def. Point 2: Yes, thank you. I have come to realize that thirty foot light walls are a little odd, so I will most likely change those up. Point 3: I really wanted it to be pistol only (with secret chainsaw and berserk), but I'll probably cave and add a shotgun. It works much better on easy, but it does just feel a bit tedious on HMP and UV, especially if you don't happen upon the berserk and/or chainsaw. I mean, in my "master plan" I was going to give you the shotgun pretty much straight away in Map02 anyway, lol Point 4: I did actually intend the design such that you could get all the keys before using any, even possibly before knowing where to use any. I prefer maps that don't necessarily have an obvious order, but I will be making some that way too. I definitely hear you on the hell knight area. I'll try to find a better use for that space. I'm also not really sold on the Baron + demons room. And I will consider making the second yellow door the red door so that if players head outside with just the yellow, they won't get too far before realizing they will need the red. I hear all the advice to slow down on the megawad talk. Let me be clear that I don't expect to release one next month or probably even next year. I am also going to continue seeking feedback on maps. These two may be altered dramatically by the time I finish, or they may not make the megawad at all. Thanks, all, for playing, and for any advice you have. 0 Share this post Link to post
Benjogami Posted September 23, 2017 5 hours ago, HAK3180 said: Lastly, I have watched and read an obscene number of tutorials and videos to get started with mapping, but I have hardly dabbled in other builders and ports. I am hardly a gamer and certainly not a computer person at all. I don't know how to open an lmp file. Do I need PrBoom? And on that note, is it common for maps to be compatible across source ports, or is it more like "Try a different one at your own risk"? Yeah, you need PrBoom+. All you should need to do is unzip it somewhere, copy doom2.wad into the folder, copy your own wad into the folder, and then drag and drop the .lmp onto the exe. It is indeed common for wads to work in a number of different sourceports, especially if you're mapping in the "Doom format" and are going for a classic style without added stuff. Lots of people use GZDoom, but others have various different favorite sourceports, for whatever reasons. I like the classic mechanics and demo compatibility of PrBoom+, for example. 1 Share this post Link to post
joepallai Posted September 23, 2017 I am really excited to see what you do next. These are good maps with fresh uses of textures and some good ideas. Map01 I agree with everyone else about a shotgun on map01. I think it's absolutely essential for a better (ie., more fun) experience. I would give the shotgun with a limited amount of shells (no more than 12, possibly 16 on Skill1). The soul sphere is unnecessary, unless it's there for continuous play going into a hard start on Map02. You could move or add an entrance to this area earlier in the map by dragging the start area and the southern walls connected to the start say 256 units down; leaving you enough space to add a hallway and some rooms between the outdoor area to the west and the start area. (the shape of the building's exterior suggests that there is stuff there anyways). Doing this could give you an early reason for having that chainsaw secret I think the stairs with the ammo box on it (middle of map) would work better if it descended into a weird little maintenance closet. The exit area could use a large tree and maybe a contrasting dirt flat going down the center to the exit. (RROCK19 would work really well also). I haven't had a chance to play Map13 yet, but it looks good in the editor. Sorry if I sound harsh or bossy, Joe. 0 Share this post Link to post
spaztacus Posted September 23, 2017 2) Another option for Map01 is maybe go a little smaller in size. Just a quick starter. Or maybe not make the chainsaw as much of a secrect. A fun little run where the chainsaw is a trap and a bunch of pinikes pop out for you to mow down :) 4) If the key thing was your design, that's fine. Just wanted to point it out. I've seen some maps that work that way and I've never really enjoyed them. Always gave me a sense that I was lost or forgot something. But that's my opinion. You do you :) 1 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted September 23, 2017 4 hours ago, joepallai said: The soul sphere is unnecessary, unless it's there for continuous play going into a hard start on Map02. I think the stairs with the ammo box on it (middle of map) would work better if it descended into a weird little maintenance closet. I am thinking about these maps within the context of a 32-map set, so yes, the soul sphere doesn't do much for you in this map, but is more of a bonus heading into the next. I love the descending instead of ascending stairs idea. I am gonna incorporate the shotgun, I've decided, and I may ditch the chainsaw secret altogether. Thanks for your thoughts. 0 Share this post Link to post
mgr_inz_rafal Posted September 24, 2017 Hello, Below are my blind runs throught the maps. Please bear in mind that I am "casul" :) Some comments: MAP01: 1. Good to get started - there's no need to be a shotgun there 2. I liked the final outdoor area very much MAP13: 1. A little bit to vertical for disabled freelook. These huge steps everywhere :) 2. My usual comment - give more ammo and health. I don't like maps where I cannot go "full Doom" and need to cherrypick enemies from behind the corner 3. Rooms are mostly squares, I think. But on the other hand - this map resembles good old Doom2 Overall - good job. I think I would play entire megawad themed like these two maps. Videos: 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted September 25, 2017 18 hours ago, mgr_inz_rafal said: Some comments: MAP01: 1. Good to get started - there's no need to be a shotgun there 2. I liked the final outdoor area very much MAP13: 1. A little bit to vertical for disabled freelook. These huge steps everywhere :) 2. My usual comment - give more ammo and health. I don't like maps where I cannot go "full Doom" and need to cherrypick enemies from behind the corner 3. Rooms are mostly squares, I think. But on the other hand - this map resembles good old Doom2 Overall - good job. I think I would play entire megawad themed like these two maps. Thanks for posting these - fun to watch. You had quite the run with 2 health there. As far as more ammo and health, that's been one of the biggest challenges for me. I know where everything is and the best order to play the map in, etc. So part of me says, "Wow, poor guy. Give him some more medikits, shells, and rockets." But another part of me says, "This guy didn't even explore the room with the megasphere and a decent amount of ammo. He also was within about three feet of a soulsphere and didn't see it. In addition, he missed some ammo/health/armor in secret areas." So that's the tension. And I'll keep working on it. Thanks a lot for your thoughts. 0 Share this post Link to post
mgr_inz_rafal Posted September 29, 2017 Yes, the 2% run has been interesting :) Actually, I've been intensively bleeding through the entire map and every single armor helmet was of high value for me :) I'm not mapping intensively these days, but if I do I always find myself adding more health and ammo to my maps at the very end of the "polishing" phase. My assumptions are: 1. Doom is not an exploration game after all. Maybe in the past, but not these days... It's not Dark Souls :) It's hard to see your map being played more than once. Guys just want to load .WAD and do killing :) 2. Camping is bad. I want to jump into the middle of an action 3. If I have gun, I need ammo :) I hate having to not use my favorite toys and revert to Berserk Pack. I want to kill that Cybie at the end! Don't get me wrong, these are just some thoughts of casual Doom player. 0 Share this post Link to post
Magnusblitz Posted September 29, 2017 First thing that struck me was the hardcoded no freelook and no jump/crouch. I'm fine with the latter, but I'd recommend allowing freelook. Personally, I use freelook in every other FPS I play, and being stuck staring straight ahead both 1) feels unnatural for aiming (relying on autoaim to hit enemies above/below) and 2) hurts my neck for some reason... not sure if it's because I subliminally focus on something or what, but it drives me nuts. Just my two cents. Overall not bad for a first attempt, as they're certainly playable. I'd say the two main things to work on would be detail and room shape. A lot of rooms are too big, and tend to be slathered in one texture... definitely could use some detailing to break things up. And MAP13 was rectangle after rectangle, try breaking away from the grid and not relying so heavily on 90 degree angles. I honestly had no problem not having a shotgun on MAP01 since I found the berserk. And (on UV at least) there's a sergeant that drops a shotgun. 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted September 30, 2017 12 hours ago, Magnusblitz said: First thing that struck me was the hardcoded no freelook and no jump/crouch. I'm fine with the latter, but I'd recommend allowing freelook. Personally, I use freelook in every other FPS I play, and being stuck staring straight ahead both 1) feels unnatural for aiming (relying on autoaim to hit enemies above/below) and 2) hurts my neck for some reason... not sure if it's because I subliminally focus on something or what, but it drives me nuts. Just my two cents. Overall not bad for a first attempt, as they're certainly playable. I'd say the two main things to work on would be detail and room shape. A lot of rooms are too big, and tend to be slathered in one texture... definitely could use some detailing to break things up. And MAP13 was rectangle after rectangle, try breaking away from the grid and not relying so heavily on 90 degree angles. I honestly had no problem not having a shotgun on MAP01 since I found the berserk. And (on UV at least) there's a sergeant that drops a shotgun. Thanks a lot for playing and commenting. I will take your thoughts under consideration. I'll just comment on freelook. I've just never really enjoyed anything beyond vanilla style Doom. Somehow I have never even really liked other FPS. Never got into Halo, Call of Duty, anything. So I guess that's why I disabled it, because I'm stuck in the 90s, but I'll keep the thought in mind. And I did change MAP01 to include a sergeant on all difficulties and 4 more shells on medium and hard, I believe. And I made the berserk a bit easier to find. 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted December 11, 2017 Pretty significant updates, including two new maps (6 total now) are now live. See the edited original post. 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted February 5, 2018 Two new maps in the wad are up, bringing the total to 8. Let me know what you think. See the original post. 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) Happy autumn and happy anniversary to me! Today marks a year since I released the first two maps in this wad. Today I release the newest two along with the heavy modifications to the previous 8 – 10 total. I am working on a traditional 32-map megawad in pretty much a classic style. A few somewhat distinct features include a decent amount of open spaces and a somewhat frequent use of white textures. Of the ten maps, the newest releases are 03 and 10. All of the others have been continually modified and tweaked, some much more than others. Let me know what you think. I’m just over a year into mapping, so if you remember how the older maps used to be, I think you’ll see significant progress, but there’s still definite room for improvement. I'd love your thoughts on what these improvements might be and what, if anything, is done well. See the original post for more information. P.S. Does anyone have the original release? I have a very early version but unfortunately not the original. It was called cross.wad and would have been dated 9-22-17. I'd love to see exactly how far I've come, but the earliest version I have is after the first somewhat significant changes. (Thanks, EffinghamHuffnagel) Edited April 25, 2019 by HAK3180 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted September 23, 2018 @EffinghamHuffnagel, excellent! I didn't think anyone would have not deleted that by now. 0 Share this post Link to post
EffinghamHuffnagel Posted September 24, 2018 Long-term individual projects and CPs I'll create a folder and throw updates in there as I notice them. Once they're finally released I'll usually go back and delete alphas, betas and early stuff. Glad I could help. 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted September 27, 2018 Okay, time to start playtesting! Nice, solid opening map. By reading the thread, I know this isn't your first map. It's well put together, with a good logical flow and a nice mix of indoor and outdoor areas. The outdoor area near the exit was especially well done with the irregularly shaped terraces The combat was a little pistol-heavy for my taste, even with the added shotgun, extra ammo, and occasional Sergeant to kill, but the opposition was appropriate to the weaponry at hand, so I was never in much danger and only took a few hits. Widespread use of windows also made things interesting, especially with distant Imp snipers firing through to keep you on your toes. I achieved 100% kills but only found 1 secret -- the Soulsphere -- during play, and that was after I'd killed everything but it's Imp guardian. ;) I found the Zerk while doing a -nomonsters walk-through to check the lighting. It looks like I'm not the only one who uses light variance to clue a secret. ;) I'd say that lighting is the area which needs the most work. The rooms are big with minimal detail, and light variations can really punch them up. Lighting is detail. I tend to favor gradient lighting, even though it has its drawbacks, mainly stripeyness when used with certain textures, though it loves water, lava, Flat14 and Ceil5_1. You can study BTSX E1 to see the "chunky style" of gradients they used, with big sectors, occasionally with odd sizing, say 32 units in one and 64 in the next, and also changing textures at the border of the light sector to avoid stripeyness. I tend to use 8, 16 and 32 for my sector sizes. You can also lay 2 sectors side by side with the same light level, say 2 of 8 instead of one of 16, because this breaks up the light at the borders and can help to create a foggy effect, at least in GZDoom. Everyone says don't worry about all this stuff for now, but you started this thread a year ago, so why not? Lighting by itself can help diminish the sense of those big rooms being echoey. Also, the light level is very similar inside and out, so a more dramatic difference would add useful contrast. You could have the light level brighter under your TLite squares and lower as you get farther away from them. The map is fine as it is, but it's an avenue worth thinking about. I look forward to the next maps, to see what happens when you turn up the heat. 1 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted September 30, 2018 On 9/27/2018 at 5:01 PM, Steve D said: I'd say that lighting is the area which needs the most work. Lighting is probably the thing that has changed the least in all my tweakings over the months, so yeah, it's definitely not great in the early levels. You can certainly see improvement in later maps, but it's still nothing to write home about. I found a technique that I'm employing some in the next map that I may come back and use on others. Thanks for all the other tips and thanks for playing. 0 Share this post Link to post
meapineapple Posted October 4, 2018 Here's a playthrough of Map 10, which was definitely my favorite so far. It was a lot of fun and the tunnels especially look great. And I really liked how the arachnotron was placed in the starting area. I thought that it worked really well for adding some pressure without ever being frustrating. The only things I could criticize was the use of a GATE flat (SSG location) without it actually being a teleporter, as far as I could tell, which caused a moment of confusion. And then there were another few moments of confusion with some walk-over lines that probably could have been walk-once instead of walk-repeating. (I spend a little while investigating and finally understanding the endless "clunk" noises around 14:30 in the video.) 1 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted October 4, 2018 @meapineapple, really fun playthrough. I really wanted you to survive after scapegoating that lost soul into the rev rocket path; that was nice. I also liked watching you figure out the soul sphere secret. A few thoughts: this was originally a hellish map. I hardly changed it at all except all new textures. I’m glad you liked the cave; I was pretty happy with how that turned out. I see your point on the teleporter. It seemed less out of place in a hellish cave, but it does kinda look like it should be a teleporter. As for the repeating walk and switches, it was originally designed to be multiplayer compatible, which the rest of Crossbearer is not. So those are failsafes for that purpose, but I may go ahead and take it out entirely or make them one-time use. Well, you’ve now played the two most recent, so if you want to continue, be prepared for a possible decrease in quality. I’ve actually already made some changes, but nothing substantial so I haven’t updated the file. 0 Share this post Link to post
